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The Obligatory Rules Thread, Take Two
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Juton
Duke


Joined: 04 Jan 2010
Posts: 1414
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 7:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

We have a perfectly good off topic board and I think it would be best if the gaming discussion was separated from the non-gaming discussion.
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Maj
Prince


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 4287
Location: Shelton, Washington, USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Given the strong personalities here, I don't really see banning non-gaming discussion as something that's going to be effective. I think the result will be massive wars in threads about gaming.
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Zinegata
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Joined: 17 Aug 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I've yet to really see a flame war over pure gaming in this board.

They're almost always started by some other real-world issue and people just plain not liking each other and being intolerant asshats.

But, people have mentioned they missed the good old days when they had 4E to bash.
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Prak
Serious Badass


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 16236

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

no, there have been flamewars started over gaming stuff. people here tend to express their opinions in rather strong and rhetorical ways.
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Maj
Prince


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 4287
Location: Shelton, Washington, USA

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'd like to also point out that banning real world topics would probably curtail some gaming discussion - especially on stuff like religion.
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CatharzGodfoot
King


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 5664
Location: North Carolina

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 5:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Maj wrote:
I'd like to also point out that banning real world topics would probably curtail some gaming discussion - especially on stuff like religion.

Discussing religion in the context of gaming would be fine. Say somebody wants to create a heroic organization based on the Church in her game, and someone else takes exception to the positive light the Church is cast in.

Creating the game organization based on the real organization would be fine. Ranting about how it isn't that way in real life wouldn't. That seems fairly clearly defined.

Say somebody is trying to solicit examples or real-world political parties to help create factions in her aWoD game, and people get into an argument over how the Party really operates. That's not clear-cut at all, and would probably be an allowable flamefest until the attacks got too personal.
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Prak
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'd like to point out that, it seems to me at least, many of us came here because we were sick of forums that babied everyone like that. We were sick of forums where we had to tip toe around the users and the mods. We came here because we could yell and scream and fight should the need arise, and because Fbmf allowed us more or less free rein until it was absolutely necessary to step in and shut something down.

I propose that rather than add another rule, which would, to some extent, act counter to the reason we post here, we simply agree to move non-gaming discussions and arguments and wars to their own thread in MPSIMS.

Seriously, what's so fucking hard about that?
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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DragonChild
Knight-Baron


Joined: 09 Mar 2008
Posts: 576

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

That nobody would do it, yourself included.
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Count Arioch the 28th
King


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 5692

PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I tried it before. People started flaming me even more after doing so. It doesn't seem to be effective.
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Prak
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

really? It was effective when I did it.

We just need to actually do it.
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Draco_Argentum
Duke


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 2435

PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

DragonChild wrote:
Now? Now anyone who wants to use the Den for actual gaming stuff can't, because a select few idiots are constantly dragging every topic off-topic for their own personal feud.


Thirded or whatever. There are too many feuds that migrate from thread to thread. The most damaging being PL vs Frank since they're both capable of making worthwhile posts. Zinegata vs various is annoying but I don't lose anything by not reading his posts.

I see no way to solve the problem short of starting a new messageboard though. If people wanted to calm the fuck down they would've done it when they noticed the board getting steadily more aggressive.
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Prak
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well... I don't know. Pretty much everyone agrees that what's going on now is shit. We're just letting anger and offense get the better of us and we're not thinking. It's possible to fix this without making a List of Things What Can't Be Said, because we know it needs to be, and we know how, we agree on what the best course of action would be (moving arguments to new threads and not derailing) we just need to grow the fuck up and do it. We need to cram down the anger long enough when we're about to derail a thread, or have started to, and click three buttons (at most) to go start a new one, and we need to be adults who don't let arguments from other threads stifle new ones.

I know I was being one of the childish dicks in this last one, and I'm fessing up to it and saying "I'll try and do better." That's all we can really do at this point. But hell, maybe what we need is a bit of encouragement or reinforcement in the manner of if someone starts derailing a thread, and refuses to take the argument somewhere else, they get a temp ban, to cool off and let the thread progress.

I know Fbmf doesn't like to publicize mod decisions in that kind of situation, but maybe a "Hey, fuckhead, you're on time out for (X) days, go cool off, rest of you, get back to the original topic" post when needed would help. And really, it's up to him what he decides to do. Honestly, I trust him to do whatever he thinks is necessary or right, and while I may not like the decision, I like the forum that he's given us, so, you know, I'll deal.
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Dean, on Paranoia wrote:
The book is a hardbound liars paradox.


Winnah wrote:
No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.


FrankTrollman wrote:
In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.


Last edited by Prak on Sat Aug 07, 2010 8:49 am; edited 1 time in total
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Red_Rob
Prince


Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Posts: 2569

PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Zinegata wrote:
I've yet to really see a flame war over pure gaming in this board.

They're almost always started by some other real-world issue and people just plain not liking each other and being intolerant asshats.


On the merits of Centaurs as Player Characters.

Which is better, 3D6 or D20?

Denners may sometimes bicker over little things like sexuality or politics, but they really sharpen the claws over probability in game mechanics Tongue
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Maj
Prince


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 4287
Location: Shelton, Washington, USA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Prak wrote:
they get a temp ban, to cool off and let the thread progress.


I'm all for temporary bans (like 24/48 hours). After seeing how effective they were in restoring my husband back to me without penalizing him long-term, I'm so there.
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fbmf
The Great Fence Builder


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 2546

PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
I do agree that the cause of a lot of the grief on the boards is differences in political and/or social ideology. So I say we try it for a while and see what happens. As of 12:01 a.m. tonight (CST), we will cease and desist all political/social commentary (by my definition, not yours) discussion for about a month. I will let you know when the ban ends officially, but it should be somewhere around September 1.

Also, please check the OP for an update of another kind. Effective immediately, death threats and death wishes against people will no longer be tolerated. Death wishes regarding ideas and concepts are perfectly acceptable.
[/TGFBS]


Last edited by fbmf on Sun Aug 08, 2010 9:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Lago PARANOIA
Invincible Overlord


Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 10171

PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2010 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Am I still allowed to wish that Mike Mearls gets kicked out of D&D FOREVER and uses his acquired money to get into a respected community college and he learns some math and then has a successful job balancing numbers and raises a family full of happy and healthy kids?

I know it's dark, but I need to know these things. Hatin'
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Josh Kablack wrote:
Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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fbmf
The Great Fence Builder


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

**pinches bridge of nose**

Yes, Lago, that would be fine.

Game On,
fbmf
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Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 12147

PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I am as of now registering my complete disgust with this decision, and a formal complaint.

EDIT: Not complete disgust, only disgust, for example, the probationary nature indicates a thoughtful overlord willing to admit to consider results.

Also, if that's what you want, you should just extend it to religion too, since that's basically the same thing. And then you can just delete the entire subforum that consists of 95% politics and religion discussions.
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That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.

Last edited by Kaelik on Mon Aug 09, 2010 2:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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Koumei
Serious Badass


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 12872
Location: South Ausfailia

PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

fbmf wrote:
[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
Effective immediately, death threats and death wishes against people will no longer be tolerated. Death wishes regarding ideas and concepts are perfectly acceptable.
[/TGFBS]


Do people even do death threats/wishes any more? The last time I remember it is when you rightly slapped me down for a very childish wish against Mearls.

And by "regarding ideas and concepts", do you mean it's okay to say "The skill challenge system/polymorph rules/whatever is fucking stupid and should be shot down and buried so deep no-one ever accidentally finds it"? I'm just a little confused over your wording there.
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fbmf
The Great Fence Builder


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Koumei wrote:
fbmf wrote:
[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
Effective immediately, death threats and death wishes against people will no longer be tolerated. Death wishes regarding ideas and concepts are perfectly acceptable.
[/TGFBS]


Do people even do death threats/wishes any more? The last time I remember it is when you rightly slapped me down for a very childish wish against Mearls.


It happens. It has happened recently.

Quote:

And by "regarding ideas and concepts", do you mean it's okay to say "The skill challenge system/polymorph rules/whatever is fucking stupid and should be shot down and buried so deep no-one ever accidentally finds it"? I'm just a little confused over your wording there.


That is what I have in mind, yes.

Game On,
fbmf


Last edited by fbmf on Mon Aug 09, 2010 3:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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Kaelik
ArchDemon of Rage


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 12147

PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Koumei wrote:
Do people even do death threats/wishes any more?


If you include the DIAF not wishes not threats, I have done at least one in the last month, probably a lot more. I like DIAF.
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The perfect analogy for capitalism is a teenage kid, who refuses to listen to his dad when he gives him a tip on solving a problem. And keeps optimizing how to rake the yard using the handle instead of the head.

DSMatticus wrote:
Kaelik gonna kaelik. Whatcha gonna do?
That's libertarians for you - anarchists who want police protection from their slaves.
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Draco_Argentum
Duke


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 2435

PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 7:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

fbmf wrote:
[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
I do agree that the cause of a lot of the grief on the boards is differences in political and/or social ideology. So I say we try it for a while and see what happens. As of 12:01 a.m. tonight (CST), we will cease and desist all political/social commentary (by my definition, not yours) discussion for about a month. I will let you know when the ban ends officially, but it should be somewhere around September 1.
[/TGFBS]


Balls timing with the .au federal election on. So many bads to complain about.
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Crissa
King


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 6745
Location: Santa Cruz

PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

fbmf wrote:
[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
I do agree that the cause of a lot of the grief on the boards is differences in political and/or social ideology. So I say we try it for a while and see what happens. As of 12:01 a.m. tonight (CST), we will cease and desist all political/social commentary (by my definition, not yours) discussion for about a month. I will let you know when the ban ends officially, but it should be somewhere around September 1.[/TGFBS]

Does that include news, MPIetc forum?

-Crissa
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fbmf
The Great Fence Builder


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 2546

PostPosted: Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Crissa wrote:
fbmf wrote:
[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
I do agree that the cause of a lot of the grief on the boards is differences in political and/or social ideology. So I say we try it for a while and see what happens. As of 12:01 a.m. tonight (CST), we will cease and desist all political/social commentary (by my definition, not yours) discussion for about a month. I will let you know when the ban ends officially, but it should be somewhere around September 1.[/TGFBS]

Does that include news, MPIetc forum?

-Crissa


Of course.

Game On,
fbmf
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Crissa
King


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 6745
Location: Santa Cruz

PostPosted: Tue Aug 10, 2010 4:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

That sucks.

...
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