Magic: the Gathering

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Username17
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Re: Magic: the Gathering

Post by Username17 »

Cielingcat at [unixtime wrote:1176394466[/unixtime]]
Frank, is that chart of total HP vs RNG differences?


Those numbers are simply the average component damage added by each modified damage resistance DC being available with the Attack/Defense match up. Since each actual damage DC get's generated only on 1/10th of the attacks, the average damage you suffer when making a damage soak roll is ten times those numbers.

I put those numbers down so that I could quickly add them up when talking about sliding the attack and damage scale up and down a lot. I didn't erase them when I posted because I didn't care.

Note that you don't actually just take 10 numbers in a row and add them together, because presumably some of the attack numbers are going to miss altogether. So if you hit on half the numbers, you'd add up the five numbers that correspond to the five available modified damage DCs.

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Re: Magic: the Gathering

Post by Ecureuil_Diabolique »

Has this been totally abandoned? This sounds like an awesome idea. Did anyone ever get to working more on this concept?
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Re: Magic: the Gathering

Post by Neeek »

Something I thought of randomly regarding this whole "beat people up and absorb their power" plan. Wouldn't you essentially have to double the power of each successive enemy to maintain a challenge?
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Re: Magic: the Gathering

Post by Cielingcat »

I've since decided that I hate d20 with a burning passion, and so I tried to develop a homebrew system for it. Here's what I was thinking.

Creatures in Magic have two numbers that we care about-Power and Toughness. But that's too vague for an RPG and I don't like it. So instead you have 4 stats; Body, Reflexes, Intellect, and Willpower. Like SAME, only with flavorific changes. These stats are equal to your total mana pool, which replaces level because we don't need both. This is because having a bunch of magic flowing through you actually makes you superhuman, to the point where Barrin can pimp slap someone's head off. Well, fluff-wise he could, even though he was a 2/2 on his card.

Naturally, I'm following the flavor of Legends and such in regards to characters, since I think that the Tetsuo Umezawa's shtick where he was a mage master AND a kickass fighter is cooler than the "frail mage" archetype. And anyway, even people in later series like Volrath or Crovax had the same deal (though, admittedly, they were Evincars). And I'm sure Invasion era Barrin was a badass physically, what with the power armor and all.
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Re: Magic: the Gathering

Post by Ecureuil_Diabolique »

Sweet, so will any of those represent any base mana or will it be static and change only when you gain a level (If you're using levels) or stab someone in the face and take their stuff?

I've read the Champions and Betrayers of Kamigawa books, so I have an idea of how this might work as far as flavor.

So will it work like when you take a level in something, it taps that mana permanently? So it'd be like you have to choose when the most opportune moment to level would be without leaving yourself with no mana to play with.

I really want to see this develop, it sounds like a great idea. You should probably skim through the thread and edit your first post to throw in all the ideas you like and things you are going with.
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Re: Magic: the Gathering

Post by Cielingcat »

Nah, here's how it works now.

Strength (Body sounds stupid to me today) is the stat you use for physical damage and soak rolls. Agility is used for physical attack and dodge rolls. Intellect is used for mental attack and dodge rolls, and Willpower is used for mental damage and soak rolls. But that's not important.

Everyone starts with a mana pool of 2, and stats of 2/2/2/2, which is the range of "normal human." With those 2 mana, you have some amount of abilities; maybe 7 to start or something, it's not important right now. Each round, you can use a total amount of mana equal to your mana pool-using any mana "taps" it until the start of your next turn. Abilities are either Sorcery or Instant speed, with Instants being usable whenever as long as you have the mana (basically, reactions). You also have buffs that reduce your mana pool by some amount to give you a permanent bonus, but you can switch out buffs at Sorcery speed.

Mana is gained by a variety of ways, including taking over land, forming bonds with land, discovering artifacts, creating artifacts, or just becoming more awesome. The point is, you generally don't get more mana too often, as gaining even one point represents becoming a ton more powerful. Instead, you grow by learning more abilities, which makes you more powerful in the "you have more options" way. Your options only get better when you get more mana to pump into them.

Abilities are vaguely magical and always better than what a normal person can do. They vary from the mundane "hit someone super-hard" to whatever you call the thing that the Cabal First had. Maybe one of them is "physical attack at +3 bonus, melee range; R" while the other is "mental attack at +3 bonus, melee range; B", they do the same thing but have different flavor and damage types. Also the second one is creepy.
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Re: Magic: the Gathering

Post by Prak »

Neeek at [unixtime wrote:1174001169[/unixtime]]
FrankTrollman at [unixtime wrote:1173986407[/unixtime]]
Note: Most of Magic that I am familiar with has pretty much "Humans" as the race for White, Blue, and Black, with all kinds of crazy stuff for Green and Red.


White is, as you said, nearly entirely human. I can't actually think of a major, mostly White, non-human creature type off of my head. Blue has all sorts of things from Merfolk to Birds to Illusions, as well as a lot of humans. Black has humans (assassin, for example), but I'd say it's more undead and vermin than anything else. Red has various Barbarians as it's human, as well as Orcs, Goblins, Dwarves...Those sorts. Anything that lives in caverns or likes chaos. Green has Druids, but it otherwise very short on humans. Elves, fairies, animals and Treefolk are Green's bread and butter




White
Loxodons(M/R) (elephant people)
Leonin(M) (Lion people)
Soltari(Rt) (people trapped between our world and an etheral one)
Humans, Auriok(M)*
Angels
Avens(Od) (bird people)
Kithkin

Blue
Merfolk
Humans, Neurok (M), Metathran
Avens
Cephalid(Od) (cephalopod people)
Djinn (although each color has it's share of djinn, they'd be a primarily Blue race, I'd think...)
Homarids/Camarids/Viscerids(H?)
Lupul (Ra) (doppelganger-like masses of purple worms which can emulate their last humanoid meal down to powers and personality)
Nim (M)
Thalakos (Rt) (see Soltari)
Soratami (K) (Magic bunny people, essentially.)
Vedalkin(Ra, M) (Bald, Blue, technologically inclined elves, essentially)

Black
Demons
Humans, Moriok (M)
Imps
Nezumi (K)
Dauthi (Rt) (see Soltari)
Spectors

Red
Dragons
Dwarves
Goblins
Humans, Vulshok(M)
Viashino (Lizard People)
Minotaurs

Green
Catfolk
Centaur
Dryads
Elves
Humans, Sylvok (M)
Nantuko (Od) (Mantis people, use Thri-kreen, minus the poison)
Orochi (K) (Snake People with four arms)
Thallids? (FE) (Fungal things)
Treefolk

Artifacts
I think it'd be kinda cool to have some races of artifice, so...
Collosi
Golems
Myr(M)

Any color
Slith (M) (magic people, spawned from a furnace, with powers corresponding to the aligned sun at their time of birth)
Slivers (Rt, O, TS)

Sets of Origin:
Rt=Rathi Cycle
Od=Odyssy
M=Mirrodin
K=Kamigawa
Ra=Ravnica
TS=Time Spiral

most culled from here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sp ... ng[br]this helps to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rath_%28Ma ... thering%29
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Post by JigokuBosatsu »

Man, sorry to be all necromantic, but this is a thread per my current interest. CC, do you have a manuscript of this project's current status? I'd love to do fire up Magic Studio and help with some card conversions.
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Post by RobbyPants »

Sadly, Ceiling Cat doesn't post here anymore.
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Post by JigokuBosatsu »

Well, poop.
Omegonthesane wrote:a glass armonica which causes a target city to have horrific nightmares that prevent sleep
JigokuBosatsu wrote:so a regular glass armonica?
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Post by JigokuBosatsu »

So I managed to snag the Dusk Player's Guide. Exceptionally well-written, great "classical myth" setting. The MtG element, spells especially was no great shakes. This thread has a much better imagining of how it would go. Oh well, I will just read me some MtG novels and see how inspired I get.
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Post by Username17 »

After deciding that she hated the d20 rule system, she subsequently decided that there was a great many other things she hated and no longer designs games or speaks with us. It's unfortunate, but not something we can help her with.

However, this thread does show that such an idea is relevant to the interests of other people as well. So if you decide to take such a project in one direction or another, there are a number of people who will offer assistance and ideas.

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Post by Prak »

I can always stat races up, if nothing else, I'm good at digging through fluff descriptions and making mechanically sound, if not balanced, abilities out of them.

I'm best with d20, but hell, if anyone wants to go forward using something else, just tell me what it is and I can get at least a base understanding.
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Post by JigokuBosatsu »

Thanks, Frank. Don't know why I'm so drawn to this idea, but there you go.

Thanks too, P_A.
Last edited by JigokuBosatsu on Tue Aug 31, 2010 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Grek »

Recap of the earlier, partially fucked pages of the thread:

Mana:
  • There are six mana types, White, BlUe, Black, Red, Green and Colourless.
  • A character starts out with 5 mana and gains more mana by conquering lands.
  • The type of mana you get depends on what lands you conquer and how the party divies it up.
  • Mana is invested in abilities to make them better. More mana means more better.
  • Some abilities require mana of a specific colour. Other abilities are colourless and take any mana.
  • Colourless mana can be used in place of any colour of mana. It isn't just for colourless abilities.
  • Your mana investments reset at sunrise and sunset, allowing you to reassign them in some other order.
  • Investing uninvested mana requires one hour of preparation, but can occur whenever you like.
  • If a character gains new lands and new mana, they must spend the same hour investing it as if it had reset.
  • A character can elect not to invest all of their mana when they have the chance. Doing so risks mana burn.
  • If a character has uninvested mana at sunrise or sunset takes damage from mana burn based on the amount of mana.
  • Characters start with two mana determined by their species: Merfolk have UU, while humans are CC.
  • Generic NPC commoners have just their racial mana and do not have class levels in anything.
  • Starting PCs have their two racial mana and three coloured mana of their choice, subject to class requirements.
  • Higher level characters have more significantly more mana, up to the triple digits of it.
Classes:
  • The first class level requires five mana. Later levels require exponentially more mana.
  • These exponential mana costs depend on character level, not class level.
  • Taking a level in a class (including the first) also requires that half your mana be the right colour.
  • Example: In order to become an assassin at 1st level you need 5 mana, and at least 3 of which must be black.
  • You still get to invest the mana you use to level up. It doesn't go anywhere, it's just a prerequisite.
  • Every class gives you +1 BaB and all saves, 6 skill points and a 1d8 Hit Die at every level.
  • Every third level gives you +1 to the favoured save of the class you took at that level.
  • Different classes give you different skills to spend your skill points on that level.
  • Your class also has a limited influence on what abilities you can take at that level.
  • There one class per origin for each colour. One Martial, one Stealth and one Magic. They are:
  • White: Paladin, Scout or Cleric.
  • Blue: Marine, Merchant or Sorcerer.
  • Black: Death Knight, Assassin or Necromancer.
  • Red: Warlord, Diplomat or Shaman.
  • Green: Ranger, Bard or Druid.
  • Colourless: Mercenary, Engineer or Artificer.
  • Half your class abilities must be of the same colour as your class. The other can be any colour.
  • Separately, half your class abilities must be of the same origin (Martial, Stealth or Magic) as your class.
Example: a 1st level Assassin (Black Stealth) might take Poison Blade (Black, Stealth) and Fade from View (Blue, Magic). Alternatively, they might take Words of Falsehood (Red, Stealth) and Mind Twist (Black, Magic).

Abilities:
  • Characters start with three abilities based on species. These must be colourless or the same as their colours.
  • Characters gain two new abilities for every class level. These are subject to restrictions below:
  • Each ability has an action type, an origin, a colour, a mana cost, a minimum mana investment and a tap duration.
  • The origin of an ability is Martial, Stealth or Magic. It determines which classes can take it.
  • The colour of also determines which classes can take the ability, but based on colour instead.
  • Using an ability taps an amount of mana equal to the mana cost for the tap duration.
  • A character must have untapped mana equal to the minimum mana investment to use the ability.
  • Untapped mana beyond the minimum mana requirement will improve the effects in some way specific to the ability.
  • Sometimes different mana types will improve the power in different ways.
  • Some abilities let you untap a mana early. You choose what mana to untap when the ability is used.
  • You choose what Colourless mana counts as when you invest it, not when you use the ability.
  • The action type for an ability is one of Sorcery, Instant or Creature.
  • Sorcery abilities are used on your turn and produce a one time effect. They're the default action type.
  • Despite the name, not all sorceries are overly magical. They're just abilities you use on your turn.
  • Instant abilities may be used whenever you like, even on other people's turns.
  • Instant abilities tend to be less overtly magical. But there are exceptions to this.
  • Creature abilities are used on your turn and produce creatures that act directly before you in initiative.
  • Creatures all benefit from untapped mana in their ability. Summoning more creatures weakens existing ones.
Example: A human assassin (3B2C) invests 5B in Poison Blade (1B, 1B, 10 minutes). The assassin can use Poison Blade five times before needing to untap: Once as a 5B, then as a 4B, a 3B, a 2B and finally a 1B.
Last edited by Grek on Mon Sep 29, 2014 7:47 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by AndreiChekov »

I have been thinking bout this thread a bunch after reading it a couple of days ago.

Creature types could give colour to characters. They don't really need to do much else.

This affects spells and abilities
For example
Minor protection from black; costs W or U; You get +1(or whatever) AC against black creatures, and a +1(or whatever) to saving throws against spells and effects from black creatures, this lasts some reasonable amount of time, like until end of combat

Protection from black; costs 1W or 1U; you get +2(or whatever) AC against black creatures, and +2(or whatever) to saving throws against black spells and effects(note that this is not from black creatures, but the color of the abilities themselves) and are immune to black abilities from black creatures. (lasts some reasonable amount of time like 6 rounds)

and greater protection from black; costs WWW or UUU; you are immune to black (this meaning that undead characters can't touch you at all even if they chose to be a paladin, because their race is black.)
I suggest not having this last forever, because it is a ridiculously powerful ability.

and then you can have mass minor protection or whatever, but I think that mass greater protection would make a bunch of teams of players that are immune to everything every fight.
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