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Judging__Eagle
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

Planar Raiders
[aka: "Champions of the Sanctum Magi"]

This post is a slowly changing list of the character creation rules; allowed or reccomended classes (i.e. you could play a core fighter, but you'll get more mileage out of a RoW one, in that you probably won't die as easily and you can do stuff other than swing a blade).

you know what? I don't know what's wrong with the formatting here, but I can't seem to do nested lists; I'll have to re-do it later


Character Creation Rules:

Stats: Elite Array: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8 +/- Racial modifiers

Starting Gold: Standard 6th lvl wealth 13,000 gp
(Everyone gets this; if you want to abuse the Candle of Invocation, you can only do so in-game).

Classes:

Most published WoTC stuff and Core material is in (I'll have to look over any really new WoTC stuff, but most is okay).

Exceptions:

Some items/classes/material is restricted, for use at later levels or has different costs or has been otherwise modified.

Also, any magical item with a "market value" of more than 15,000 gp is not purchasable with most metallic currencies. They are
purchasable, but you should read Tome of Fiends and the Dungenomicon to see what you need to buy such powerful items.

You're better off using some of the stuff below if you're not making a core Ranger/Rogue/Cleric/Druid/Wizard.

Nearly anything out of the following Supplements is availible:

[*]Tome of Necomancy

Includes:

  • Discussion on the morality of Necromancy
  • The various LA +0 undead templates (Ghoul, Revenant, Dread Warrior, Vampire)
  • The Racial Paragon classes for the above race templates.
  • Several Necromancy-related PrCs
  • Necromancy creation and command Feats



[*]Tome of Fiends

Includes:

  • Discussion on Good vs. Evil and the ways you can handle either
  • Discussion on Law vs. Chaos and how you could deal with them
  • True Fiend base class
  • Fiendish Brute base class
  • Conduit of the Planebase class
  • Summoner base class
  • Several Soul-robbing, Demon-Enslaving PrCs; one good-plane linked PrC
  • Many Fiendish feats; get a look if you want to see what potential opponents could have
  • Discussion on Wish and how lvl 11+ PCs enter the Wish economy automatically


[*]Dungenomicon


  • Includes:
  • Assasin base class
  • Jester base class
  • Monk base class
  • Thief-Acrobat base class
  • What it means to be Adventurers and the morality of adventuring
  • Explains why people build underground and make dungeons in the first place
  • Talks about 'economics' and D&D. Example: If 50 GP are in 1 lbof gold, that means each gold piece weights as much as 9 pennies. Also, "Gold Piece" means a "piece"; so you're likely to run around with miniature golden dog statues or tiny gold swords or gold horses or poured spheres with a stamp on them instead of actual 'coins'
  • There is an absolute cap of what magical gear you can buy with gold (15,000 gp) and that's seriously 300 lbs of gold.
  • Gear more than 15,000 gp can be bought with non-gold currencies (literally: the stuff of dreams, hope, pain, chaos and souls themselves). So, that +4 armour? That +3 sword? Yeah, someone either lost XP to make it, or used really wierd stuff to make it.



[*]Races of War


  • Includes:
  • The introduction of "The Edge" (having 1 point more BaB over the cleric now means something to a fighter)
  • Streamlined Combat Options
  • Fighter base class
  • Barbarian base class
  • Knight base class
  • Samurai base class
  • Combat Feats (i.e. scaling feats)
  • Cleaner rules for using weapons (what you can wield and how you can wield it)
  • Bows and Ammunition (that doesn't make people cry)
  • New armour for everyone and non-armours as well
  • Backgrounds that mean something
  • Discussion on war and how it affects people and wars that occur between specific groups on a regular basis
  • Bunch of other stuff




Brobdingagian's Dragon Disciple

Frank's:
Fire Mage
Bard [Vinny is playing a bard with this class]
Marshall
The Frank and Sujin Sorcerer
[Note: these characters are nothing like the original classes]

Iaimeki's Kantian Paladin based on the work of Immanuel Kant (the inventor of a more universal type of Golden Rule)[Arturian is playing a Gargoyle with this class]
New Skill Based Feats
(so, if you want a skill bsed on your ranks in a skill, check this out)

Judging Eagle's
Master Thrower [Redone to be used with RoW material]
Berzerker-Magus [Redone to be viable with or without RoW material]
[http://bb.bbboy.net/thegamingden-viewth ... &postnum=9]Mental Weaponry[/url] [The flavour of the Soulknife, in one feat]


The Preview Material from: Tome of Virtue, Tome of Tiamat, Book of Gears, Tome of Trees etc.
Includes:

  • Tome of Virtue: High Adventure on: Ysgard!
  • Tome of Tiamat: New Base Class: Elementalist
  • Tome of Trees: Template: Half-Fey



For a list of classes all in one spot there's the Frank and K SRD (maintained by I dunno who):Frank and K SRD

and potentially other classes after I've seen them.

Classes with mechanics that I've seen before or that already sort of exist is best, new mechanics I'm not so keen on. At all. Mostly b/c new mechanics are clunky to read.

Note: I'm willing to write up new PrCs, feats etc. if we discuss them. The problem with a system like D&D is that it's not very flexible and often has some uncreative parts in it.
[*]I've already written up a "Mental Weaponry" feat that Rogue PC is using; and Brobdingagian burned 3 of his .... 4 feats on being able to make magical swag, since no one .seems to want to play a fighter.



Morality for Planar Raiders
With regards to stuff like Necromancy and the difference between Good and Evil or Law and Chaos

"What? I thought we came here to kill these guys b/c they have green skin and fangs and we don't."


Yes, morality is going to be an important part of this game. You'll be dealing with people that treat the laws of physics as if they were suggestions, Celestials that are created by pouring souls into a mold and baking a bajillion hojillion degrees to create an Archon Angel and Fiends that think nothing of using mortal souls like salt-water taffy before the daily ten-hour gladiatoral fighting of the wrathful. So, having some sort of basis for what is Right or Wrong and how "most people" deal with Good and Evil creatures should be established before hand (you could be a Lawful stupid Core paladin, but eventually even the Temple of Complete Order will send an Inevitable to kill you and send your soul to the heavens, where you'll probably be turned into a Celestial's cooking pot) .

Necromancy:The zombie in the field is a fvcking joke. The ghoul running at you is bloody scary, b/c it's actually smart and wants to eat you.

I'm using the "Playing with Fire" morality for Necromancy. So, unintelligent undead are only as evil as they are used, not in and of themselves.

"Necromancy it's not for Conjuration any more!"

Also, all healing is Necromancy magic. I don't know why they changed it to Conjuration in 3.5, because you don't "summon" flesh or organs to fill in your holes in your body. Also, Necromancy as it's core is about life and death magic. Removing the life part means certain previously accepted facts about the game don't exist and we have to make up new ones to explain why things have changed.

"Good, bad; I'm the guy with the axe."

Good/Evil is somwhere between the "Perfection in Balance", but the "Face of Horror" is something that I want to have happen; if the fictional villan character is merely going to invade an area, whatever. If they're going to invade using monolithic warmachins powered by the souls of tortured innocents, you'll want to go an kill them. I want there to be extremist fringes for both good and evil.

"Well, we don't really service you do-gooders here in Nerull's temples; healing's restricted to worshippers ya know? You'll have to go across the piazza to the basilica of Pelor. Mind the market across the way though. There's some Mask-worshiping assasins killing people for fun. Give them a foot of steel if you meet them. One of them tried to give my nephew and the Sun-God's High Cantor a few extra breathing holes last fortnight. I'd keep an eye out if you head out of the metropolis area, the Heironiousites and Hextorites are at their shenanigans again; press-ganging people and getting them to fight in their 'crusade'" [Spits ground]

So, when you go to places, there are temples of Nerull and Pelor across from each other in the temple disctrict. The Sun and Death are really both as important as they are inimicable to life; so everyone is willing to put up with them so long as they don't get out of hand.

Although, the really crazy groups like the Temple of Absolute Order is stuck in places like Mechanus and wandering bands of Ravagers of Erythnul are literaly that, they wander around on the wastelands of even Orcish society (even orcs aren't that fvcking crazy) and Fiends, really are fiendish. So, lots of motivation to kill baddies. Our gaming sessions will sound horrible to outsiders however, but whatever.

The "Banality of Evil" option seems boring; even if Sigil uses it. The "A Worthy Opponent" option might be a sometimes feature, but not a common one. Having a former opponent join your cause for an adventure could be interesting.

"Sharif did not want it! Rock the Casbah, Rock the Casbah!"

As for Law and Chaos; I'm going to pick and choose from all of the presented methods of use, except that I'm gonna chuck the "Organized vs Disorganized" option. A summary of my take on Law and Chaos is as follows:

"Law and being Lawful means you follow guidlines set out by something outside yourself (a group's creed, a nation's laws etc.)"

"Chaos and being Chaotic means you follow your own guidelines (follow your heart, do what you think is best etc.)"

So, the Knight who slays monsters first and finds out they were friendly neighbours later is chaotic, b/c he doesn't bother finding out the law of the land. He can still maintain his Knight's Creed and won't lose his knightly abilities if he acts within his creed of Knightly honour (so, if he waited for the monster family to arm themselves and he didn't kill the mother who was nursing her babe; he's within his Knightly honour to kill anyone else who didn't surrender).

While, the free-sprited Bard who always asks "What would Fhalaghn do?" and obeys the rules and follows the ethos of the Harpers of Knowledge and Hope, even if he might not feel like he really wants to; then he's actually Lawful (or at least neutral). Even if he's serenading a new lady-friend in every town and signs playbills for his austere Dwarven listeners and his rabid Kobold and Goblin fanbase.


A PDF of the files is availble thanks to Alphanerd here: Frank and K PDF site; if Trelew checks this out, I'm sure that he'll recognise the font. Alphanerd used a font and typeset that's very reminiscent of old 1st and 2nd Edition TSR books.




The PCs so far include:

Most of the classes are RoW or Dungeonomicon, as well as some Tome of Fiends and Tome of Necromancy stuff.

Arturian:

Going to play a Gargoyle Knight; he's got the HP, saves, BaB and DR to do so and I'm gonna give him the Gargoyle HD as virtual Knight lvls (gain designate foe levels for those HD but not HD, saves or any other knight class abilities; as it stands his skill pts are pretty bad (-1 int mod!).

None of us were really keen on the MM flavour of the Gargoyle. So he's one of billions of the gargoyle warriors that patrol, defend and lead petitioners in the Seven Heavens of Celestia.


When the player finds out he was literally made out of the souls of a bunch of warriors that worked as temple guards, his sword is made from a low level paladin's sword and that his armour is made of compressed souls of hospital aides and goodwives and that his superiors want him to bring them souls to recover what their team could lose if he dies while adventuring; well, I frankly don't know what will happen. His character is to be surprised as his player will be.

scrapped character ideas:

Gold Dragon Wyrmling (going either knight or Iaimeki's Kantian Paladin); he has a modified HD (lowered to get +6 BaB, 6 HD and +5 saves; also his breath weapon got switched around to deal an other, CR 6, dragon's breath weapon). He's got no gear and no gold, might not be a bad party tank, but he'll get hit pretty bad as it stands.

Gonna play a cleric or Pally



Staximus

Human Monk (skirmisher with whirlwind + a +30' of movement and ignore dr/hardness fighting style), he really should pick up blitz for the damage, but w/e)

"The Don"

Aasimar Bard (going to try Brobingagians Dragon Disciple and see how it compares to the actual Dragon PC)
He's going to use the Bard that Frank wrote up about a year ago in the "Bards?" thread.

"..." (some people cal her ogre...for a really dumb reason)

Human ToN Vampire ToF Summoner (ToN vampire, so not much aside from +2 cha and that she can drain her summons for hp if she needs to; she's gonna burn her 24 hour summon on getting a Quasit... b/c she thinks the mini is cute).

Brobdingagian
Teifling Wizard with an Necropolitan (I dunno race) Archivist Cohort. Spells, spells, spells. He's gonna be magical Batman.

Trelew

I'm gonna show him the Kantian Pally, the Frank Marshall and some other classes that might be right up his alley. Not sure what he'll be.

J
I've got an other person who I've never DM'd for before, she knows her RPGs (Has played and run various along running V:tM game and has played D&D).

After mentioning the Jester and talking about stuff, we came up with the idea of her being a Jester-Baker that uses Acid Cream Pies and Pratfalls as a form of self defense (i.e. the pies are mechanically Acid Flasks that cost nearly nothing but she needs a mule to carry along her cart full of pies and tarts and pastries).

Campaign Background Ideas, Ramble:


[note: I'm editing this post off and on to have links to specific classes and supplements that I'm gonna be using]

Wizards do everything to become more powerful, right?

As well as keep themselves safe, right?

But, how do they get rid of rivals?

The idea that I have is that there are PC wizards, but the real power comes in staying in one place and drawing power into yourself from either nearby magical nodes that take the forms of magical forest glades, single monolithic stones, ritually constructed temples or structures (think Mayan temples built to have every 'step' represent one day of the year; each 'tier' represent one lunar month, the four sides represent the seasons and the twin sides of the observatory represent the sun and moon); specific mountains, etc. etc. etc. going as far as to create perhaps entire cities or even confederation of cities that passively power their ruler's magic.

Now, this obviously requires a super hot-shit PrC that you can't enter until lvl 10 and has massive upsides along with massive down sides.

So, in your place of power, you're hot shit. You can apply any metamagic feat you know (or, mayeb even ones you don't) to any spell you want, you don't need to rest or even eat and you do broken shit like count as having more spell progression levels than you have hit dice.

So, the Wizard 5/Divine Oracle 2/Loremaster 3/Sanctum Mage 10 is a 20th lvl caster, with as much as 25 or 30 spell progression levels.

Now, there has got be side effects. Like: losing caster progression levels when you leave your fortress, city, demi-plane, empire etc. So the above caster is a 15th or maybe even a 13th lvl wizard if he leaves his Sanctum.

Plus, cool defensive effects, like, anyone who hasn't sworn to serve his nation loses their abilities to cast their higher level spells, eventually reducing them to nearly nothing if they enter a powerful enough Sanctum Mage's fortress.

Of course, most PCs, since they adventure and that means no putting down roots.

I'm not really sure how to have this work, but I'm going to use the idea of these characters as the basis of a campaign that I'm going to run as a test-bed for a lot of stuff that Frank and K have come up with.

Of course, their 'patron' will have to be a hot-shit Sanctum Mage; if not he wouldn't be able to pay the PCs in +2 weapons or +3 armours. :roundnround:

The thing is, he wants to expand his sphere of influence; so that means entering enemy Sanctum Mage's Sanctums and having the adventurers keep them alive as they travel through the enemies territory and help him kill the enemy Sanctum Mage's champions, bodygaurds and hench monsters.

Why do this?

Mostly b/c that way I can give the PCs custom gear, have them go to places where they'll fight hard stuff and have a good reason to go planes hopping and fight elemenentals, demons, devils, prisoners in Carceri or kill armies in Acheron eetc. etc..

As well as give the players someone to roleplay off of and give them a good explaination of what they're seeing.

Since he'll be a ... 3rd lvl 'caster' in a 6th lvl party (despite his layers and layers of contingencies to get him and the PCs out if he needs to, and triggered revivifies on himself and the PCs and being an actual 15th lvl NPC), he won't be taking any limelight aside from 'knowing what's going on and explaining it to the PCs'.


Their first adventure and introduction:

1. I'll have the PCs get contacted on thier stomping grounds.

2. I'll have them Brought to a meeting area. This will involve both extra-planar and intra-planar travel.

3. I'll have their new empolyers introduce itself and then have them introduce themselves to each other.


I'll have them tested afterwards.

then, prepare to do some raiding.

A Wizard/Seeker of the Lost Wizard Traditions/Sanctum Mage needs some way to get all the stuff he needs to create magical swag.




Each PC enters a dungeoun from various outside parts and has to get to the middle.

There's some puzzles, maybe.


I'll offer them one of four prizes

1. A Pile of Platinum coins large enough to drown you and maybe your freinds.

2. A Pile of Gold, Electrum, Silver and Copper coins much, much larger, enough to build a castle, you think.

3. A black-hilted green bladed sword with purple flames wreathed around the blade beside a solid obsidian scabbard. Yes, I said solid obsidian.

4. A suit of armour that hovers in the air and has magic literally dripping from it in the form of tiny motes of light that run down it's sides and vanish as they fall off the armour, waiting for someone to grab it and put it on.

5. A floating granite-bound book with pages made of sheets of engraved gold with dozens of bookmarks that you can't seem to actually count accurately. Either they are moving and you can't seem to notice how, or there's a number that you can't actually count.

Each makes their choice and says why. This is actually a test, but Brobdingagian's one of the players, so I won't say what I'm testing for. [Edit; Arturian made an account here, so he could figure it out too]

After that, they have to face a challenge of one of four difficulties:

Easy (an pair of open hands)

Medium (a pair of hands with one hand with a dagger)

Challenging (a pair of hands with one hand with a sword)

Dangerous (a handwith a sword and a sheild in place of the other hand)

The PCs can split themslves into whatever areas that they want (so, one could try the Easy stuff, a pair try hard and the rest try medium) have to defeat 4 challenges of the type that they pick from (which of course, will have increased numbers of enemies with every person past the 1st).

If they beat one, there's a penalty, an iron golem that's one of the referees will take one of their items away and then put it as part of the attempted challenges prizes.

In any case, the PCs have to beat at least one set of challenges before they can advance.


I might have to include more than one 'type' of challenge, so:

Stealth challenges (infiltration: sneak past the sleeping monster, sneak past the bunch of tired monsters, sneak past the alert monster, sneak past the several guards),

Movement challenges (escape while being chased: run across the stone floor, run over snow/swamp, run across the field with obstacles, run across the snow/swamp with obstacles)

Diplomacy Challenges (Lying/Convincing: The bar wench/lout has to lied to in order to convince her/him you're a poweful hero to get her in bed with you; the local adventures need to be impressed in order to find an honest trapssmith to hire; the local magistrate needs to be convinced that loaning you a squad of his guards to block off the sewer access points so you can flush out the wererats; impress the king's vizier that you should marry one of his children and help protect the land)

Combat Challenges: Yeah, use tougher monsters, sho'nuf.

Trap Challenges: solve the trap, solve a bunch of traps, solve the trap while being chased/attacked, take the trap with you

Ugh, anyway; the 1st adventure will be to delve into a natural cave system and kill the current dweller and capture it's hoard.






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While everyone's Philosophy is not in accord, that doesn't mean we're not on board.
Catharz
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Re: A new Camapign: Setting ideas and initial PC testing

Post by Catharz »

Is there a reason to penalize the casting of other casters in a sanctum when they're already (1) sanctum casters outside of their own sanctums and therefore 'teh sux,' or (2) non-sanctum casters and therefore inferior? It seems excessive work, especially when the sanctum can already be full of all kinds of wards.
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Re: A new Camapign: Setting ideas and initial PC testing

Post by Brobdingnagian »

Think about it. If you kick your neighbour in the balls while he's at your house, he probably won't hit back, or if he does, won't last long, because you got your family helping you out. If you kick him in the balls in the middle of the street, well, you got the first shot, but otherwise it's fifty-fifty.

But if you kick him in the balls at his house, now you have to deal with his family. Essentially, it's, "I'm at my place, I do better. I'm not at my place but not at someone else's place, I do okay. I'm at someone else's place, I do bad."

On an unrelated note, grammar is fairly non-essential to wizards.
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Re: A new Camapign: Setting ideas and initial PC testing

Post by technomancer »

Here's an idea for Sanctums: For each day you control your sanctum, you can negate a single spell cast within your sanctum as a free action. So if you've only controlled your sanctum for a week (7 days, none of this 10 day faerun crap), then you could negate up to 7 spells of any level that are cast within your sanctum. Of course, that 8th spell is the kicker. On the other hand, if you've been unchallenged for a full year, you could handle a fairly large strikeforce of spellcasters, negating up to 365 spells.

You rock in your sanctum, and you suck in others sanctums. The way to beat someone out of their sanctum is to constantly harass them, and force them to use up their spell negations in a long, drawn out war of attrition.

If 1/day is to low a number, just up it until it feels right. You could have all sorts of other nifty add-ons, like expend one usage to be able to feel all spellcasting in your sanctum for a day, allowing spellcraft checks to know what's being cast, even if you arn't near.
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Re: A new Camapign: Setting ideas and initial PC testing

Post by Brobdingnagian »

You could use (and I can't believe I'm suggesting this) a couple of the abilities from the... Dungeon Lord, was it? That PRC from It's Not Outside. It's like, I always know everything that happens in my dungeon because I can scry anywhere in it anytime. Except for the Sanctum Mage's area of control. Makes Scry and Die even more useful, since you don't have to burn spells for scrying.
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Judging__Eagle
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Re: A new Camapign: Setting ideas and initial PC testing

Post by Judging__Eagle »

Catharz.

Damn you, you and your infernal logic!

Technomancer.

I fvcking love that idea.

I'm writing some stuff up for it on my gmail documents thingy.


Brodbdingagian: Say... you want to make your choice on the 'items'? /kekeke
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Re: A new Camapign: Setting ideas and initial PC testing

Post by Brobdingnagian »

Nah, I'll wait 'till the game comes up. Don't want to outshine the other players anymore than I'm going to.
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Re: A new Camapign: Setting ideas and initial PC testing

Post by Judging__Eagle »

No, I meant the choice among the:


1. A Pile of Platinum coins large enough to drown you and maybe your freinds.

2. A Pile of Gold, Electrum, Silver and Copper coins much, much larger, enough to build a castle, you think.

3. A black-hilted green bladed sword with purple flames wreathed around the blade beside a solid obsidian scabbard. Yes, I said solid obsidian.

4. A suit of armour that hovers in the air and has magic literally dripping from it in the form of tiny motes of light that run down it's sides and vanish as they fall off the armour, waiting for someone to grab it and put it on.

5. A floating granite-bound book with pages made of sheets of engraved gold with dozens of bookmarks that you can't seem to actually count accurately. Either they are moving and you can't seem to notice how, or there's a number that you can't actually count.
The Gaming Den; where Mathematics are rigorously applied to Mythology.

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Re: A new Camapign: Setting ideas and initial PC testing

Post by Brobdingnagian »

I know what choice you meant, and you know full well how dumb I'm gonna make everyone else look. I hold you responsible when my character gets stabbed in his sleep.
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Re: A new Camapign: Setting ideas and initial PC testing

Post by Catharz »

A book of infinite spells is always the answer.
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Re: A new Camapign: Setting ideas and initial PC testing

Post by Judging__Eagle »

Catharz at [unixtime wrote:1175661450[/unixtime]]A book of infinite spells is always the answer.


Depends who asks you the question.

Also, it depends who you are.


Also, Brodingagian, don't worry a single bit about summoninng monster's.

That vampiress summoner's got a 21 Cha before gear or anything.

She wrote down her age as 221, so, yeah, max mental stat boosts.

She's also got a Con score, I didn't read the [Unliving] sub-type when making her character.

Also she's seriously gonna have to carry a parasol and wear clothing that covers most of her body. Direct contact with sunlight makes her staggered and she'll take 2d6 points of damage each round. Hith 38 HP at lvl 6, that could be problematic.

Also, all I know about your char is that you are gonna use buff spells and battfield control; so I'm guessing: haste + good hope + recitation + briar web + dark tentacles, or something along those lines?

Or are you gonna go for illusion spells and have people waste 1+ round(s) each combat as they try to 'manipulate' illusionary fogs or walk around illusionary prismatic walls?
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Re: A new Camapign: Setting ideas and initial PC testing

Post by Brobdingnagian »

Dude, anyone with ranks in spellcraft knows that an illusory prismatic wall is an illusion, because they're not friggin' blind just looking at it.
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Re: A new Camapign: Setting ideas and initial PC testing

Post by Judging__Eagle »

Only if they all have 8 HD or less.

The minions of said spell caster will still have to try and touch it to make sure it's an illusion. I mean, would you rush past a wall of fire that looks, sounds and gives off heat like a wall of fire would, just b/c your boss told you it was a fake?

Remember, just b/c you can see something and have been told something is an illusion, doesn't mean that the enemy doesn't have to burn a round trying to go around the illusionary fire or touching the illusionary stone wall.

Figments


Creatures encountering an illusion usually do not receive saving throws to recognize it as illusory until they study it carefully or interact with it in some fashion.

A successful saving throw against an illusion reveals it to be false, but a figment or phantasm remains as a translucent outline.

A failed saving throw indicates that a character fails to notice something is amiss. A character faced with proof that an illusion isn’t real needs no saving throw. If any viewer successfully disbelieves an illusion and communicates this fact to others, each such viewer gains a saving throw with a +4 bonus.



At best, the minions get a +4 to their save.

Also, a spell caster can use their own ranks in spell craft to disguse what spell they cast, increasing the spellcraft DC to identify the spell by half of the resultant check.

Okay, that's not a rule, but it bloody well should be.

In any case, the wizard casting from within his illusionary obscuring mist can't really be seen, b/c you can't really touch mist and the silent image spell is a visual illusion, not a textured surface like in a video game and you look at the map from 'behind' the walls.

If you need to, there's always the dirty trick of casting a Major Image Wall of Fire, a Silent Image Wall of stone, behind it, and then a real wall of fire behind that.

You get frightened by the 1st spell b/c it moves, has smell and feels hot, find out it's an illusion, pass through.

The stone wall you test to make sure it's fake.

The last spell you ignore until you take a bunch of fire damage.

In any case, creatures have to always interact with an illusion spell that might be real.
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Brobdingnagian
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Re: A new Camapign: Setting ideas and initial PC testing

Post by Brobdingnagian »

"I see it, so I'm interacting with it via my optic receptors."

And this is why rules are too vague.
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Re: A new Camapign: Setting ideas and initial PC testing

Post by Catharz »

Judging__Eagle at [unixtime wrote:1175718047[/unixtime]]\
The minions of said spell caster will still have to try and touch it to make sure it's an illusion.
I always figure that touching a prismatic wall is the best thing to do, on the off chance it's an illusion...
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Re: A new Camapign: Setting ideas and initial PC testing

Post by Brobdingnagian »

I'd throw a rock at it. Touching prismatic walls is dumb. What if it's not an illusion?
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Re: A new Camapign: Setting ideas and initial PC testing

Post by Judging__Eagle »

Brobdingnagian at [unixtime wrote:1175744611[/unixtime]]"I see it, so I'm interacting with it via my optic receptors."

And this is why rules are too vague.


Doesn't count for a wall of stone/iron.

In any case, burn a standard action if within close range, you get to make a save.

You get a max of +4 if someone else tells you it's a fake or can show it's a fake by making their own save.
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Re: A new Camapign: Setting ideas and initial PC testing

Post by Brobdingnagian »

Why doesn't it count?

"That wall of stone looks out of place... oh, I saved. It's an illusion." :P
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Re: A new Camapign: Setting ideas and initial PC testing

Post by Judging__Eagle »

Yeah, but you're still burning a standard action. Interacting takes time.
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