Alternative to bonuses
Posted: Thu Jan 13, 2005 2:33 am
This thread is mostly spawned from this coment by Frank on another thread (which I didn't want to clutter up).
The question is. Is there anyway to actually get around this problem.
It's been long suggested by Frank that bonuses as class features don't work and that all abilities should be level dependent. Which is ok, but can we really make that work?
I've been thinking of such a system and it seems to be that it would have to end up being some kind of matrix as far as attack forms go and that eventually, you'd end up running out of abilities to hand out.
Now, one such system would be a matrix of some kind. You take an attack type (which is any random name) and you apply it to some defense statistic of the defender (not a number but rather a type, like large creature, or elemental). Note by attack type I don't necessarily mean damage type. "Flame Jet" and "Fireball" can be different attack types under this system. Fighters would be using "cross slash" or "vicious chop" and similar attack forms.
Now for every attack type it works differently depending on who you target.
This would facilitate huge tables, but anyway, a single row collumn in the table would look like this, assuming the table were by size.
"Flame Jet" damage by creature size-
Fine: 1d6
Tiny: 1d6
Diminutive: 1d8
Small: 1d8
Medium: 1d10
Large: 1d10
Huge: 2d6
Gargantuan: 2d6
Collossal: 2d8
Or something similar. And you may have some attacks specialized at killing certain sized creatures. Fireball may infact be better against small creatures, or better against medium or whatever you wanted. But the point is that you'd have lots and lots of these collumns and every level, you'd pick up one maybe two of these special attack forms.
After the roll, you'd add or subtract the difference in level (or twice the diff in level depending on how big you wanted levels to be), and get a result.
Attacks, like damage would have their own matrix detailing how accurate given things were. So it'd looks something like
Flame jet accuracy
Outsider: hits on 12+
Humanoid: Hits on 15+
Giant: Hits on 5+
And so on. Again, difference in level would be a modifier.
Finally attack forms would have range, which is the same as it is now, and they'd also have damage type, which is countered by resistance and/or DR.
So for any given attack, you'd be looking at Damage matrix, attack matrix, range and damage type.
You'd also get defenses, whcih let you do stuff like act as both an outsider and an elemental and take the best defense out of those and so on.
Now the question is, would this be enough to run a good game? And would it run well enough early when the characters don't have an extensive amount of attack forms to use.
So is this idea workable or is there something I'm missing?
Frank wrote:
The core problems of classes in general in D&D mostly settle around multiclassing. Namely, that when you are a Red 4/Blue 8 you are supposed to be as powerful as a Blue 12 or a Red 12. Further, the game is supposed to be extensible, and equally balanced by the time someone is a Red 40/Blue 80. Vs. Being a Blue 80. Noone has so far made any classes that make a serious attempt to do that.
Mathematically, having any ability which is +1 to Blue at every Blue level is impossible to balance in that fashion, because the game is generated on a d20. Collecting bonuses to specific tasks is by definition non-extensible. Sooner or later the person with Mono-Blue is going to have +19 or more on the person with Red and Blue, and that means that either:
* The challenges will be set by the person who is all-blue, so there's no point in even being in the party as a multiclassed character.
or
* The challenges will be set to the guy with a splash of Red, in which case the all Blue guy has wasted a crap tonne of levels, because his additional bonuses don't do anything.
The question is. Is there anyway to actually get around this problem.
It's been long suggested by Frank that bonuses as class features don't work and that all abilities should be level dependent. Which is ok, but can we really make that work?
I've been thinking of such a system and it seems to be that it would have to end up being some kind of matrix as far as attack forms go and that eventually, you'd end up running out of abilities to hand out.
Now, one such system would be a matrix of some kind. You take an attack type (which is any random name) and you apply it to some defense statistic of the defender (not a number but rather a type, like large creature, or elemental). Note by attack type I don't necessarily mean damage type. "Flame Jet" and "Fireball" can be different attack types under this system. Fighters would be using "cross slash" or "vicious chop" and similar attack forms.
Now for every attack type it works differently depending on who you target.
This would facilitate huge tables, but anyway, a single row collumn in the table would look like this, assuming the table were by size.
"Flame Jet" damage by creature size-
Fine: 1d6
Tiny: 1d6
Diminutive: 1d8
Small: 1d8
Medium: 1d10
Large: 1d10
Huge: 2d6
Gargantuan: 2d6
Collossal: 2d8
Or something similar. And you may have some attacks specialized at killing certain sized creatures. Fireball may infact be better against small creatures, or better against medium or whatever you wanted. But the point is that you'd have lots and lots of these collumns and every level, you'd pick up one maybe two of these special attack forms.
After the roll, you'd add or subtract the difference in level (or twice the diff in level depending on how big you wanted levels to be), and get a result.
Attacks, like damage would have their own matrix detailing how accurate given things were. So it'd looks something like
Flame jet accuracy
Outsider: hits on 12+
Humanoid: Hits on 15+
Giant: Hits on 5+
And so on. Again, difference in level would be a modifier.
Finally attack forms would have range, which is the same as it is now, and they'd also have damage type, which is countered by resistance and/or DR.
So for any given attack, you'd be looking at Damage matrix, attack matrix, range and damage type.
You'd also get defenses, whcih let you do stuff like act as both an outsider and an elemental and take the best defense out of those and so on.
Now the question is, would this be enough to run a good game? And would it run well enough early when the characters don't have an extensive amount of attack forms to use.
So is this idea workable or is there something I'm missing?