Ess' Project Class #6: The Channeler

The homebrew forum

Moderator: Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Essence
Knight-Baron
Posts: 525
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Olympia, WA

Ess' Project Class #6: The Channeler

Post by Essence »

OK, time to get back to this project. It’s been on the shelves for a long time, and I’m sure I’ll be erratic about posting these, but I’ve heard tell that some people are asking about the other 45 classes, so I’ll keep on pushing ahead, albeit slowly.

This class is intended to be the ancient master/mystic on the mountain type of dude, with mastery of magic and the martial arts. He casts Normal spells (see the Bard thread for a description of the magic levels), which basically puts him on the level of a Cleric or Shaman spell-wise. He’s got the basics of Monky combat, and a small set of funky Ki abilities which give him a special flavor. (The Ki abilities will come back later for another class or to, as well.)

CHANNELER
Alignment: Any.
Hit Die: d6.

Class Skills: 2+Int
The channeler’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Jump (Str), Knowledge: (anatomy, arcana, magic, religion) (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).

BAB: Middle
Saves: All High

Code: Select all

[br]							Spell Levels:[br]                                                 0   1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9[br] 1 Unarmed strike, intuitive defense, [br]        flurry of blows; 1d6 unarmed dmg.       3/5 1/2                              [br] 2 Ki ability                                   4/6 2/3                       [br] 3                                              4/6 2/3 1/2                      [br] 4                                              4/7 3/4 2/3                   [br] 5 Clean flurry                                 5/7 3/4 2/3 1/2                  [br] 6 Ki ability                                   5/8 3/5 3/4 2/3                   [br] 7 Unarmed damage 1d8                           5/8 4/5 3/4 2/3 1/2               [br] 8                                              6/9 4/6 3/5 3/4 2/3               [br] 9 Flawless flurry                              6/9 4/6 4/5 3/4 2/3 1/2                [br]10 Ki ability                                   6/9 5/7 4/6 3/5 3/4 2/3            [br]11 Greater flurry                               6/9 5/7 4/6 4/5 3/4 2/3 1/2          [br]12                                              6/9 5/8 5/7 4/6 3/5 3/4 2/3           [br]13 Unarmed damage 1d10                          6/9 6/8 5/7 4/6 4/5 3/4 2/3 1/2         [br]14 Ki ability                                   6/9 6/9 5/8 5/7 4/6 3/5 3/4 2/3          [br]15                                              6/9 6/9 6/8 5/7 4/6 4/5 3/4 2/3 1/2         [br]16                                              6/9 6/9 6/9 5/8 5/7 4/6 3/5 3/4 2/3     [br]17                                              6/9 6/9 6/9 6/8 5/7 4/6 4/5 3/4 2/3 1/2    [br]18 Ki ability                                   6/9 6/9 6/9 6/9 5/8 5/7 4/6 3/5 3/4 2/3  [br]19 Unarmed damage 2d6                           6/9 6/9 6/9 6/9 6/8 5/7 4/6 4/5 3/4 2/3	[br]20 Ki mastery                                   6/9 6/9 6/9 6/9 6/9 5/8 5/7 4/6 3/5 3/4[br]



Class Features
All of the following are class features of the channeler.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A channeler is proficient with no weapons, armor, or shields.
Spells: A channeler casts normal spells. A channeler’s spells have verbal components (harmonizing the voice with the body and mind), and somatic components (complex postures taken to open the meridians). A channeler may choose to ready any spell she has access to provided she can cast spells of that level. She readies spells ahead of time, any of which she can cast up to the maximum number of spell slots available to her for each given level. In order to ready or cast a particular spell, a channeler needs a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a channeler’s spell is 10 + 1/2 the channeler’s character level + the channeler’s Wisdom modifier.
Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a channeler gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A channeler’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a channeler may even make unarmed strikes with her hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a channeler striking unarmed. A channeler may thus apply her full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all her unarmed strikes.
Usually a channeler’s unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but she can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on her attack roll. She has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.
A channeler’s unarmed strike is treated both as a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.
A channeler also deals more damage with her unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown on Table: The Channeler. The unarmed damage on Table: The Channeler is for Medium channelers. A Small channeler deals less damage than the amount given there with her unarmed attacks, while a Large channeler deals more damage; see Table: Small or Large Channeler Unarmed Damage.

Table: Small or Large Channeler Unarmed Damage

Code: Select all

[br]Level     Small     Large[br] 1-6       1d4       1d8[br] 7-12     1d6       2d6[br]13-18     1d8       2d8[br]19-20     1d10      2d10[br]


Flurry of Blows (Ex): When unarmored, a channeler may strike with a flurry of blows at the expense of accuracy. When doing so, she may make one extra attack in a round at her highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a –2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity the channeler might make before her next action. When a channeler reaches 5th level, the penalty lessens to –1, and at 9th level it disappears. A channeler must use a full attack action to strike with a flurry of blows.
When using flurry of blows, a channeler may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham). She may attack with unarmed strikes and special monk weapons interchangeably as desired. When using weapons as part of a flurry of blows, a channeler applies her Strength bonus (not Str bonus x 1-1/2 or x1/2) to her damage rolls for all successful attacks, whether she wields a weapon in one or both hands. The channeler can’t use any weapon other than a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows.
In the case of the quarterstaff, each end counts as a separate weapon for the purpose of using the flurry of blows ability. Even though the quarterstaff requires two hands to use, a channeler may still intersperse unarmed strikes with quarterstaff strikes, assuming that she has enough attacks in her flurry of blows routine to do so.
When a channeler reaches 11th level, her flurry of blows ability improves. In addition to the standard single extra attack she gets from flurry of blows, she gets a second extra attack at her full base attack bonus.
Intuitive Dodge (Ex): When unarmored and not using a shield, a channeler gains a bonus to AC equal to his Wisdom modifier.
Ki Ability (Su): At 2nd level and every 4th level thereafter, the channeler learns a way in which to channel his ki into effects. Each Ki Ability has a number of modifications that can be purchased by selecting them with the Ki Ability class feature. These modifications are optional and may be turned on or off at any time as free actions unless otherwise noted. Ki Abilities can be used once per level per day. Choose one power from the following list each time a new Ki Ability class feature is gained:
Attack Ki: his ability allows the channeler to attack an object’s ki, rather than it’s physical structure. The channeler’s attacks against objects ignore hardness and deal an amount of additional damage equal to the channeler’s Wisdom modifier. This ability requires a standard action.
By spending another iteration of the Ki Ability class feature on this power, the channeler can gain one of the following additional effects:
[*]Destructive Resonance: The channeler’s attacks against objects resonate destructively, dealing damage equal to the original attack one round after the original attack was made.
[*]Attack Living Ki: The channeler learns to apply this technique to living creatures’ ki. The channeler ignores a creature’s Damage Reduction in addition to any Hardness it has, but this ability works otherwise as normal.
[*]Ki Sunder: The channeler can use the Attack Ki power to attempt to Sunder any object, no matter it’s size. Attempts to Sunder objects more than 5 feet large in multiple dimensions result only in five-foot sections of the object being destroyed.
Ki Projection: This ability allows the channeler to, as a full-round action, project his ki into the form of a bolt of force that flies in the direction he desires and deals damage to creatures or objects it hits. The projectile deals 1d12 damage per four class levels plus the channeler’s Wisdom modifier and hits as a ranged touch attack, with a critical matrix of 20/x2. This attack has an absolute range of 60 feet with no range increment.
By spending another iteration of the Ki Ability class feature on this power, the channeler can gain one of the following additional effects:
[*]Quick Projection: The channeler can use Ki Projection as a standard action.
[*]Energy Projection: The channeler can choose one energy type (Fire, Cold, Acid, Electricity, or Sonic) and change the Ki Projection from force damage to damage of that type. The Ki Projection retains it’s ability to strike ethereal creatures despite losing the force descriptor.
[*]Destructive Projection: The critical multiplier of the channeler’s Ki Projection increases to x4.
[*]Penetrating Projection: The threat range of the channeler’s Ki Projection increases to 17-20/x2.
[*]Projection Spread: The channeler’s Ki Projection becomes a 45’ cone of tiny projectiles, dealing 1d4 per four class levels +Wisdom modifier to every target within the cone.
[*]Projection Beam: The channeler’s Ki Projection becomes a 60’ long, 5’ wide line of continuous energy, dealing 1d8 per four class levels + Wisdom modifier to every target within the line.
[*]Explosive Projection: The channeler’s Ki Projection becomes a tiny bead that detonates in a 20’ burst, dealing 1d6 per four class levels + Wisdom modifier to every target within the area. The bead has a range of 90 feet.
[*]Powerful Projection: Creatures struck by the channeler’s Ki Projection must make a Reflex save DC 10+1/2 class level + Wisdom modifier or fall prone.
[*]Stunning Projection: This ability cannot be selected unless the channeler has also selected the Stunning Attack Ki Ability. The channeler can channel a Stunning Attack into his Ki Projection, forcing a creature hit by the Ki Projection to make a Fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 the channeler’s level + the channeler’s Wisdom modifier) or be stunned for one round. This ability cannot be used simultaneously with Projection Spread, Projection Beam, or Explosive Projection, and using it requires two uses of Ki Ability for the day: one for the ki Projection and one for the Stunning Attack.
Stunning Attack: The channeler can expend a use of his Ki Ability to force any opponent he hits in combat with his unarmed strike to make a Fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 the channeler’s level + the channeler’s Wisdom modifier) or be stunned for 1 round.
By spending another iteration of the ki Ability class feature on this power, the channeler can gain one of the following additional effects:
[*]Ki Disruption: The channeler’s Stunning Attack disrupts the opponent’s ki rather than his nervous system, changing the save from a Fortitude save to a Will save.
[*]Nerve Strike: The channeler’s Stunning Attack causes blinding pain to the victim. In addition for being stunned for one round, the victim is blinded for 1d4 rounds if he fails his save.
[*]Strike the Bodyless: The channeler’s can channel his ki even into creatures that have no body. This allows any Stunning Attack to strike incorporeal creatures as if it were incorporeal itself, with no chance of missing.
[*]Elemental Attack: The channeler’s ki can take the form of elemental energies. Each time the channeler makes a Stunning Attack, he chooses one of the following energy forms, and his attack deals 1d12 per four channeler levels of additional damage of that type: Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, Sonic.
Ki Field: The channeler can channel his ki into his flesh, granting him a pair of effects: first, the channeler gains DR 3/-, and second, any creature that delivers a melee attack against the channeler without using a reach weapon takes 1d4 points of force damage per four channeler levels for having done so. Both of these effects last for the channeler’s Wisdom bonus in rounds.
By spending another iteration of the ki Ability class feature on this power, the channeler can gain one of the following additional effects:
[*]Iron Skin: The DR granted by this ability raises to 6/-.
[*]Elemental Field: The damage dealt by this ability becomes damage of one elemental energy type chosen by the channeler at the time the ability is activated (Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, or Sonic).
[*]Power Field: The damage dealt by this ability increases to 1d6 per four channeler levels.
[*]Dragon Ki: While this ability is active, the channeler may make a Fortitude save (DC 30+ the enhancement bonus of the critting weapon, if any) whenever he would normally be critically hit. If the channeler succeeds, he takes damage as if the hit were not critical.
Supernatural Reflexes: The channeler can, as a special non-action capable of being taken before initiative is rolled at the beginning of combat, expend a Ki Ability to add his Wisdom modifier to his initiative roll. The channeler may do this even if he is surprised and does not get to roll initiative until after his opponents have taken a surprise round.
By spending another iteration of the Ki Ability class feature on this power, the channeler can gain one of the following additional effects:
[*]Deflect Arrows: During any combat in which the channeler used this power, he may, once each round but not more than once per point of Wisdom modifier for the entire combat, automatically deflect any one incoming projectile, not including magical projectiles (such as an Acid Arrow) or extraordinary projectiles (such as a Hill Giant’s thrown boulder).
[*]Circular Reactions: For the duration of any combat in which the channeler used this power, the channeler is immune to being flanked by any character whose character level or Hit Dice are equal to or less than the channeler’s character level plus his Wisdom modifier.
[*]Swat Blades: For the duration of any combat in which the channeler used this power, the channeler may, once per round but not more than once per point of Wisdom modifier for the entire combat, automatically deflect any one incoming melee attack, not including melee touch attacks (such as a strike from a Flame Blade spell), or weapons whose enhancement bonus is greater than the channeler’s character level divided by four.
[*]Instinctive Reflexes: For the duration of any combat in which the channeler used this power, the channeler does not lose his Dexterity bonus to AC against invisible creatures whose character level or Hit Dice are equal to or less than the channeler’s character level plus his Wisdom modifier, and is considered to automatically succeed at Sense Motive rolls to detect enemies’ feints.
Extraordinary Athlete: The channeler gains a bonus equal to his Wisdom bonus to all Balance, Climb, Jump, Swim, and Tumble checks for 10 minutes per class level.
By spending another iteration of the Ki Ability class feature on this power, the channeler can gain one of the following additional effects, each of which share their duration with the original ability:
[*]Leap of the Clouds: The channeler gains an additional 2 times his Wisdom bonus to Jump checks.
[*]Great Scaling: The channeler gains a Climb speed of 5 times his Wisdom bonus in feet.
[*]Superior Swimming: The channeler gains a Swim speed of 5 times his Wisdom bonus in feet.
Ki Mobility: The channeler can expend a Ki Ability as a free action to gain an additional move-equivalent action each turn for a number of turns equal to his Wisdom modifier. This ability cannot be used to grant more than one extra MEA each turn.
By spending another iteration of the Ki Ability class feature on this power, the channeler can gain one of the following additional effects, each of which end when Ki Mobility ends:
[*]Hidden Strike: When the channeler activates Ki Mobility, he also gains the ability to make two attacks in a single partial action. The second attack is made at his highest BAB minus 5.
[*]Gecko Walk: When the channeler activates Ki Mobility, he also gains the effects of the Psionic feat Up The Walls.
[*]Wire Fu: When the channeler activates Ki Mobility, The channeler may Tumble his entire land speed whenever the description of the Tumble skill would normally only allow him to Tumble 20 feet.
Ki Mastery (Su): At 20th level and beyond, a channeler doubles his Wisdom modifier before he applies it to any effect of his Ki Abilities. This doubling also applies whenever the channeler’s Wisdom modifier is used to determine the save DC for any of the channeler’s Ki Abilities.



Essence
Username17
Serious Badass
Posts: 29894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Re: Ess' Project Class #6: The Channeler

Post by Username17 »

OK, this class seems to have the Hexblade problem.

You say "arcane spells" and suddenly everyone messes their pants. I mean, getting "arcane spells" is not inherently any better than getting Divine Spells. In fact, it's worse, because you need sleep to get your spells back and suffer Arcane Spell Failure. Other than that, everything that the spells actually do is a function of the spell list. The rate at which you gain power and versatility is a function of however your class happens to pick up new spell slots and spells known.

A class doesn't get better somehow because you slap the word
"arcane" on its spell list. All other things being equal, you've made the class a little worse. The only reason Arcane Spellcasters are good is because they have awesome spell lists - the word "arcane" doesn't do them a damn bit of good.

But you wouldn't know that from the Hex Blade. Heck no, he's weaker than any of the other minor casters and his "advantage" is supposed to be that he gets Arcane Spells. Boogie boogie! I mean, this means that you've basically taken the Paladin and then slapped him with a disadvantage in exchange for having some other disadvantages - and made one of the crappiest classes I've ever seen. But it gets the word "arcane" on it - so you still see people with multicolored shorts over it. I don't understand.

Anyway, people who have the "ability" to fight unarmed or unarmored seem to get the same treatment. As soon as you say "he can fight without weapons!" suddenly we are supposed to forgive the fact that he doesn't do as much damage as a character with a weapon. I mean, it's not like we don't have swords - this is Dungeons and Dragons here. So the fact that they don't do as much damage as people with swords makes them retarded.

Now, looking through the abilities, they seem strongly divided into abilities which are written under the assumption that Ki Abilities are like feats and once selected are always in effect - and other abilities written under the assumption that Ki Abilities are on some kind of unexplained limited use program which can be coughed up to power your abilities like those unworkable Void Points from AEG. But you know what? It doesn't matter, these guys blow anyways.

They have a d6 hit points, a crap attack rating, an armor class that fits in a hip pouch, and a supremely unexceptional rate of ability gain. Their unarmed damage progression is entirely worthless, as actual weaponry is always superior at every level of play.

I don't know why people seem to think that unarmed combat is so burly by concept that the game mechanics backing it up are alowed to fill dirigibles with their blowing.

The combat abilities of this class mean precisely nothing. The Cleric listed right next to it has better spellcasting, abilities which actually mean something, more hit points, and better defenses (except for the improved Reflex Save of the Channel-meister).

-Username17
User avatar
Essence
Knight-Baron
Posts: 525
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Olympia, WA

Re: Ess' Project Class #6: The Channeler

Post by Essence »

So, Frank, how would you propose fixing the Channeler (without making it any better at or more reliant upon spellcasting)?


Let me address some specific comments:

Frank wrote:suddenly we are supposed to forgive the fact that he doesn't do as much damage as a character with a weapon.


This is entirely untrue since 3.5 allowed a character to cast spells on his fists as though they were weapons. A Channeler of 11th level can GMW/Flame of Faith/Weapon of Energy his fists, and suddenly you're at the same enhancement bonus but a larger base damage die than a Cleric's morningstar. Now, perhaps the base damage die of the Channeler's unarmed strike needs to be increased to 1d8, in order to keep up with the Cleric's morningstar from the get-go -- but I fail to see why more than that is necessary.


Frank wrote:they seem strongly divided into abilities which are written under the assumption that Ki Abilities are like feats and once selected are always in effect - and other abilities written under the assumption that Ki Abilities are on some kind of unexplained limited use program which can be coughed up to power your abilities


The Channeler wrote:Ki Abilities can be used once per level per day.




Frank wrote:They have a d6 hit points, a crap attack rating


Which is funny, because they have exactly the same combat rating as a Cleric, only without the weapon and armor. Channelers gain and can use Divine Favor, Divine Power, Righteous Might, and all of the other Cleric buffs.


Frank wrote:, an armor class that fits in a hip pouch,


It's actually significantly comparable to any other Cleric's. Bracers of Armor catch up rather quickly with Full Plate, the ability to cast GMV on the Channeler's clothing keeps up with the enchantment bonus on said Full Plate, and the Wisdom to AC is able to keep up fairly well with the Tower Shield w/GMV on it. The channeler suffers a bit at lower levels (until he gains GMV), but not as much as a Monk (Shield of Faith helps).


Frank wrote: and a supremely unexceptional rate of ability gain.


The rate of ability gain is significantly better than the Cleric's, and the Channeler has identical spellcasting ability (minus the domains, that is). What's your bitch?


Frank wrote:Their unarmed damage progression is entirely worthless, as actual weaponry is always superior at every level of play.


Except that the Channeler can easily keep his fists up to par with a bit of prepreratory spellcasting, doesn't have to spend any money to do so, and effectively has a BAB of +20/+20/+20/+15/+10/+5 when fighting unarmed at 20th level, due to Divine Power.


I know that you have a hard-on against the Monk style of unarmed combat, Frank, but in this case, I really did think it through before I slapped this class together. I welcome you to prove to me how inferior the class is in combat, but it'll have to be better proof than your (already-well-known) opinion.


Essence
Username17
Serious Badass
Posts: 29894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Re: Ess' Project Class #6: The Channeler

Post by Username17 »

This is entirely untrue since 3.5 allowed a character to cast spells on his fists as though they were weapons. A Channeler of 11th level can GMW/Flame of Faith/Weapon of Energy his fists, and suddenly you're at the same enhancement bonus but a larger base damage die than a Cleric's morningstar.


You can't use a shield. So this should actually be compared to a two-handed weapon. Which:

1> Doesn't have a smaller damage die.
and
2> Does 1.5x Strength Damage.

And in 3.5 gets various stupid bonses on top of that.

We can also get in to the fact that the item in question could be a martial weapon (quite easily with the War Domain) and then do all of this with a better crit ratio and/or some neat-o powers and benefits.

Also, the weapon can be enchanted cheaply with a variety of special enhancements before benefitting from buffing spells. If you choose the benefits correctly, they stack. And the weapon can be made out of any of a number of special materials which all hump your leg to various degrees.

Which is funny, because they have exactly the same combat rating as a Cleric, only without the weapon and armor. Channelers gain and can use Divine Favor, Divine Power, Righteous Might, and all of the other Cleric buffs.


Does that mean that Bards can as well?

Regardless, Clerics have a crap attack rating (no better than a wizard until 3rd level). The only thing that keeps them in combat is an enviable armor class, as many hit points as many front line fighters, the weapons, and of course the spells.

This character is replacing some of the spellcasting and the armor and the weapons with the unarmed combat benefits - and those unarmed combat benefits don't mean dick.

The rate of ability gain is significantly better than the Cleric's, and the Channeler has identical spellcasting ability (minus the domains, that is). What's your bitch?


In what way is the rate of ability gain superior to the Cleric's? The Cleric improves Undead Turning every single level. That ability is awesome - it's not a new ability, but their ability is keeping up with what they need it to do. These guys get the ability to do things like "inflict five points of damage to an object a few times a day" - and these non-abilities come only once per four levels.

The improvement in the unarmed damage isn't really an ability at all - the regular improvement of normal weaponry is faster than that - so if you keep advancing your unarmed combat benefits you are falling behind. And if you don't, you fall behind faster.

The "ability progression" of:

1 Has ability
2
3 Ability Doesn't keep up with level appropriate effects
4
5 Ability Doesn't keep up with level appropriate effects
6
7 Ability Doesn't keep up with level appropriate effects
....

Doesn't mean that you are getting an abiliyt every 2 levels. It means you only get one ability, and you get suckered into investing lots of levels into a dead-end class, and your ability doesn't keep up with your character level.


It's actually significantly comparable to any other Cleric's. Bracers of Armor catch up rather quickly with Full Plate


You keep saying that. Your wife keeps saying that. It's not true. Go pick up one of the old threads where I go through the math on it. Having Wisdom instead of Armor means that you are behind in AC until your Epic AC increases to over 200. And since there's no tangible benefit to having an AC of 200 - that means that your AC is just behind for as long as it makes sense to keep track of.

-Username17
User avatar
Essence
Knight-Baron
Posts: 525
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Olympia, WA

Re: Ess' Project Class #6: The Channeler

Post by Essence »

Frank wrote:Having Wisdom instead of Armor means that you are behind in AC until your Epic AC increases to over 200.


The problem is that your math doesn't apply here, because the Channeler isn't paying money for armor enhancement bonuses, deflection bonuses, or stat-boosing items -- because he can personally cast all of the spells that make those items obsolete. The math then rapidly swings back in his favor, saving him 25k on the +5 armor, 50k on the +5 deflection bonus, and 72k on the +6 Wisdom and Dex items.

Which means that he can, in fact, afford the higher-end bracers, etc. that a normal Monk cannot. Which means that your math as regards the Monk is irrelevant to this class.

Now, let me get back to the question that I asked, the one that you have very deftly avoided answering: how do you propose to fix this problem? Preferably without changing the core concept of the class (that of a Kung-Fu spellcaster), that is.
Username17
Serious Badass
Posts: 29894
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Re: Ess' Project Class #6: The Channeler

Post by Username17 »

The problem is that your math doesn't apply here, because the Channeler isn't paying money for armor enhancement bonuses, deflection bonuses, or stat-boosing items -- because he can personally cast all of the spells that make those items obsolete.


Then he's still looking at the difference between having a +8 Bracers and a Wisdom Bonus vs. having +5 Platemail and a +5 Shield (which could even be a Tower Shield). Unless you've got a +12 Wisdom Bonus hiding in your pants somewhere, that's a lower total number. And a +8 set of Bracers may cost less than the swag that a real fighter is wearing - the Cleric can get this going with just a Mithril Celestial +1 Plate Mail (~30k) and an Animated Darkwood Large Shield +1 (~10k), both of which the Cleric can make himself and which collectively cost less than the Bracers of Armor by themselves (64k).

Regardless, as you are no doubt aware, since this character is very equipment light, should they actually be as good in terms of raw damage and armor class as someone packing whacky arms and armor made out of outlandish materials - they would be definitionally unbalanced the other way.

It's a problem. A severe one.

I've come to the conclusion that unarmed combat needs to be made good in a fundamentally different fashion from regular melee. Things like Stunning Fist go a long way towards fixing things - if unarmed combat has a good chance of making opponents lose actions it can be valuable to the party without actually doing very much damage.

Flurry of Blows doesn't do things conceptually well either, and the concept should be scrapped. After all, extra attacks just put you up on the damage/round variable and they do so in a level scaling fashion which is probably undesirable all around.

Unarmed combatants should gain the ability to inflict a wide variety of special conditions (prone, nauseated, stunned, entangled, whatever) while doing relatively small amounts of damage.

This methodology also justifies the lower AC - if the opponent has a lower chance of being able to attack at all, then having a lower AC is less of a problem. This also makes the unarmed fighter into something of a force multiplier - once the enemy goes prone the sword fighter gets a +4 bonus to-hit them as well, while a second unarmed warrior gets less relatively (the enemy is already prone and all).

-Username17
User avatar
Essence
Knight-Baron
Posts: 525
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Olympia, WA

Re: Ess' Project Class #6: The Channeler

Post by Essence »

So, really, the problem with unarmed combat is that there is a balancing act that has to be pulled between 1) being an effective melee combatant and 2) being penalized for not needing equipment.

The answer that WotC seems to be pulling for is the invention of alternate equipment for unarmed fighters, that costs more than normal equipment while just barely pulling unarmed fighters back into the ranks of "effective" melee combatants. Basically making unarmed combat exactly like normal combat, except with different flavor text (if it's pulled off correctly, which is very doubtable).

Your solution is to make unarmed combat fundamentally different from armed combat, using the melee combat mechanic to achieve a goal other than lowering the opponent's HP. This would then suggest that unarmed fighters should have a higher BAB, so that they could continue to hit as well as armed fighters, but low damage (perhaps not even scaling with level?), so they are obviously not supposed to full the same role as an armed combatant.

This actually seems to go well with real-world combat techniques, where the most successful and effective unarmed schools teach grappling, bone-breaking, and nerve techniques rather than pugilism.


Sounds like a plan. I'll rewrite this class (and the other six or seven unarmed classes upcoming on this list) and see if I can't come up with some mechanics to match.

Thank you, Frank.
Lago_AM3P
Duke
Posts: 1268
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Re: Ess' Project Class #6: The Channeler

Post by Lago_AM3P »

Do people actually want their fists to be a vehicle for status effects, though?

Beowulf was one of the most disgustingly effective characters in Final Fantasy Tactics because his whole schtick was inflicting status effects, but I don't know if people who want to play unarmed fighters want to be the status-inflicter guy. After decades of console RPGs, this has a negative connotation.

I know this will mechanically fix it, but from what I've gathered from other people who want to punch things into a pulp, they want to physically be able to punch something so hard that they'll fly through a wall, rather than be stunned so that the combat will be able to hit them again and again.

A lot of source material indicates that unarmed combatants should do the former, and I have the feeling that that's what people really want. That's not fair, but I don't think the other solution is really satisfying.
Post Reply