Tamarask -- or why I started worrying and stopped loving the

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Lehmuska
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Post by Lehmuska »

virgileso wrote:The big annoyance was that spell storing had been used under that same DM for literally years.
In that case I can understand your frustration. There's nothing worse than a nerf made specifically because you did something awesome.
Last edited by Lehmuska on Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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virgil
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Post by virgil »

And now he's contemplating a new house rule that will cap skill bonus items to +15 or +10. I've been using a +20 Perception item for the last four or five sessions, and this sudden decision is basically solely because of my current total bonus to the skill (not that I don't still need luck against foes that stealthily attack while invisible).
Last edited by virgil on Fri Sep 11, 2009 4:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Roy »

Seriously? As high as stealth can go very easily, especially since skills are based on HD, and enemies have more HD than you?
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Judging__Eagle
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Post by Judging__Eagle »

You should ask him how he thinks that the change in the percentage of results will change the game?

Does he think that your character should be able to notice an invisible 'hiding' monster 50% of the time? or more? or less?

Are these guys completely invisible to him? and he has to detect the invisible creature's interaction with their environment; so watching footsteps in water, or paint, or spilled sand/grain; or walking in tall grass, etc. etc. That's a 5% chance if you have a +1 to their spot checks (They have a +20 [Invis] when moving; and their dex and ranks if they try to hide, and move at 1/2 speed).

With a +20 to the spot check of the spotter, they will always notice some creature that is not actually visible to the visual spectrum of light. However, you can still notice their interactions with the environment pretty easily. In sand you'd see it almost instantly, or on grains, or in water; or walking on spilled paint or other viscous surface.

If the creature is actively hiding, then they may actually be harder to notice. However most people don't realize that "invisible" is only a +40 to your hide checks; and +20 automatic Hide check if you start to move at your speed. If you actively hide (and thus move at 1/2 your speed) you get a +20 to your hide checks.

[an aside on Sneaky Barbarians]
A RoW Barbarian could make a very interesting "fast" assasin class.

Stealthy and Ghost Step are two feats that a Barbarian can easily start with if they're a Human.

Those two feats would allow the Barbarian to hide, and thanks to the Barbarian's bonus speed to movement, they'll move slightly faster than people expect them to move.

Even at low levels, being able to make hide/move silently checks while moving at more than 1/2 speed is a pretty big deal. You'll have a much higher chance or being able to get the drop on more of your enemies, and with Spot/Move Silently, the barbarian with even a 10 int can max their 4 'sense/stealth' skills.

Combine with their prodigiously easy to increase melee damage (Blitz, TWF, easily castable 20 hour Weapon buffs, being a Tiefling/Aasimar and getting the +Size feats for large amounts of strength), and you end up with a creature that is both able to not be seen, or be able to move at a higher than normal speed when trying to hideand be a viable damage dealer. Even taking a Level in Fiendish Brute might not be a bad Idea. If it's for a +Size Feat; one where you get +8 or more Str, then that is better than 2d6 damage, the 1st level of Fiendish Brute can potentially generate a feat if the creature/character in question opts for Demon, due to the racial Bonus [Fiend] Feat. Meaning you lose 1 level of Barbarian, and 1 BaB for about a +10 to strength, and potentially some Fiendish Immunities.

Back to the RoW Barbarian,

A masochistic Barbarian could get a magic item that casts a continual version of a low level spell that creates a 'personal lighting cloud' that deals 1 Electricity damage to a creature every round.

The Barbarian's Fast Healing can recover the damage no problem at level 5 onwards. Meaning that the Barbarian could get into a Rage no matter what the circumstances are, since they are constantly in a state of "taking damage", meaning that they don't have to worry about being 'actually' attacked before they can rage (I'm going to Rage before I enter the room, charge and bust the door down so that I can go right to the middle of the room without having to waste time.

And what a Row Barb might look like


The Archetypal RoW Barbarian could be the man-sized equivalent of a fast moving, possibly invisible, Ogre, or perhaps be a man that looks Ogre-sized, and is like a speedy silent ghost across the ground? and/or Possibly Fiendish looking. That's a rather vivid, and distinct, image for me.

The Chaos Maurauder from the Warhammer: Age of Reckoning game are something like this, or perhaps the Barbarian from Diablo 2 (Diablo 2 had a pretty narrow visible view of your surroundings, so a 'fast' moving barbarian could be on you before you realized what was happening, and they had at least 2 skills that let them move faster, plus they would stack with items; and a Barbarian would mave more stamina due to more of the relevant stat, and a skill that gives more).


or would he see them as a brief outline of a blur in the air of their outline? 10%

or would their whole form be a bairly blurred shape in the air, like it looks like the outline of the creature looks like the air when an electric fan is turned on? 25% [yeah, that's very specific, but 'a' version of invisiblity that I've seen before]

or.... are they a ghostly outline to him? Like, a person that the can barely see, but can see the nose, eyes, and other body details; maybe they're in colour, or maybe their entire colour scheme is monochrome to your character's eyes? (50%)
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virgil
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Post by virgil »

In other news, at least our party (level 16) was able to take out a great wyrm green dragon, his simulacrum, two half-green dragon rocs, four enervating ray shooting CR 9 things, & some half-dragon CR 18 thing. Oh, and they all had maximum HP instead of average.

There were a few problems though; namely that except for the CR 18 mook (which the fighter and ranger duo'd), I did ALL of the damage. The caster was a mystic theurge who mainly buffed, but did some crowd control on the great wyrm at the end so it would sit still long enough for me to finish the last two rounds worth of plugging it with arrows. So I guess it wasn't so much our party taking out this EL 25 monstrosity, so much as the MT and archer taking it out, as the two of us actually spent our vast horde of wealth on stuff that might actually be of use (we're all in the Wish Economy).

ADDENDUM: Quote from DM..."you make mathematically near-perfect characters, which seems dirty to many of us."
Last edited by virgil on Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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virgil
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Post by virgil »

*insert generic expletive* They messed with Spring Attack?

[quote="3.5 version]When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate. You can’t use this feat if you are wearing heavy armor.

You must move at least 5 feet both before and after you make your attack in order to utilize the benefits of Spring Attack.[/quote]
Stupid Paizo version wrote:You can move up to your speed and make a single melee attack without provoking any attacks of opportunity from the target of your attack. You can move both before and after the attack, but you must move at least 10 feet before the attack and the total distance that you move cannot be greater than your speed. You cannot use this ability to attack a foe that is adjacent to you at the start of your turn.
They muddied up the description by not telling you what action it costs & you can't use it to get away from adjacent foes. They also frontloaded the minimum distance moved and allow it to be used in heavy armor, making it almost like an alternative to charge for the unmounted. I don't even get why.
Come see Sprockets & Serials
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
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virgil
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Post by virgil »

I'm crazy. That must be it.

The campaign is at an end. In the discussion of what to do next, in a haze of 1am sleep deprivation, I ended up being the DM for this crowd. Out of extreme popular demand (all but me), they want Pathfinder's rules & setting, specifically one of their adventure paths.

Here's what they want to do so far.
* Human Conjurer: Prohibited Transmutation & Evocation, Con 8, Int 20
* Human Fighter: Archer, convinced the group to accept Pathfinder's guns to be only martial weapons (once he can afford the 3k for his gun...)
* Aasimar Paladin: No LA for race
* Human Rogue
Stats: Str 10, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 10, Cha 10
Feats: TWF, Weapon Finesse
* Human Cleric of Asmodeus
Stats: Str 10, Dex 12, Con 10, Int 13, Wis 14, Cha 18, after human racial bonus
Feats: Noble Scion - Thrune (gets an imp familiar at 9th level, gaining bonuses as if a 1st level sorcerer), Selective Channeling
Domains: Fire, Law, convinced him to have the attack ability with Fire be at-will (chose to keep the Law one limited, because the at-will version only works 1/day per person)
Last edited by virgil on Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Come see Sprockets & Serials
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
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Roy
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Post by Roy »

Sounds like an unworkable group. Ditch it.
Draco_Argentum wrote:
Mister_Sinister wrote:Clearly, your cock is part of the big barrel the server's busy sucking on.
Can someone tell it to stop using its teeth please?
Juton wrote:Damn, I thought [Pathfailure] accidentally created a feat worth taking, my mistake.
Koumei wrote:Shad, please just punch yourself in the face until you are too dizzy to type. I would greatly appreciate that.
Kaelik wrote:No, bad liar. Stop lying.
Standard Paizil Fare/Fail (SPF) Type I - doing exactly the opposite of what they said they would do.
Standard Paizil Fare/Fail (SPF) Type II - change for the sake of change.
Standard Paizil Fare/Fail (SPF) Type III - the illusion of change.
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Crissa
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Post by Crissa »

Let them have the Pathfinder adventure and heck, if they want pathfinder classes, go for it.

Just for the love of pete, don't use their complicated rules :P

-Crissa

Wait, I don't love pete. Still...
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virgil
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Post by virgil »

That random morass of stupid house rules I've ranted about and endured in this very thread? Oh my no, I'm not using those things. If you mean the Pathfinder base system, they want to have its love child, so even using 3.5 would be out of the question for them (let alone anything even resembling Tome). Hell, I'd love to smoosh the combat maneuver feats into one or two utility feats; combine Improved Trip/Disarm/Feint into one, then combine Improved Bull Rush/Grapple/Overrun into another (combine the Gtr versions as well).

It's kind of amusing in a detached sort of way for one to have a gaming group where the DM-PC conflict is such that the DM is trying to bestow greater power. I suspect the easiest way to handle it is through subtly slipping them artifact swords, much like how you would balance 3.5 fighters.
Come see Sprockets & Serials
How do you confuse a barbarian?
Put a greatsword a maul and a greataxe in a room and ask them to take their pick
EXPLOSIVE RUNES!
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