Deadlands interesting concept that needs some help . . .

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Tae_Kwon_Dan
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Deadlands interesting concept that needs some help . . .

Post by Tae_Kwon_Dan »

Well this week we finally managed to get through our first ever Deadlands adventure and I thought I’d threw a few ideas about the system out there just to get general ideas on what people think. If you’ve played the system or even just read it, I wouldn’t mind hearing your thoughts.

In honor of its western heritage, I’ve decided to break everything out into The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly.

The Good

1. I LOVE the setting of the Weird West. It’s an awesome mix of Call of Cthulhu and a western setting. The concept of the world is pretty neat and very well written in my opinion. The mechanics of some of these concepts need some serious work [cough]HUCKSTERS (see the Bad)[/cough], but in theory they are really cool.

2. Character generation is really neat with the card system for determining your die types and how many you get. And there are some interesting min\max problems in terms of placing your die types and number of that type in their respective abilities. E.g. You could 4d12 into an ability, but never really make rolls off of the ability itself. Instead you make rolls off of the skills related to the ability and you bought your dice pool separately. So all you actually needed to do was put 1d12 in that ability and then buy several dice in the related skills. If you’re into character optimization it’s a pretty neat problem.

3. Speaking of characters there are no character classes just ability scores and certain traits that help push you along into archetypes. E.g. you can’t be a Huckster without taking the Arcane Background: Huckster as one of your advantages nor can you be a Texas Ranger without throwing an Advantage into being in that organization. It leaves character design pretty wide open.

4. The books are well written and well indexed, but . . .

The Bad

1. They almost all have a Marshall’s (GM) Only section in the back of all of them. I’m not a big fan of books available to player’s that then also have sections said player isn’t supposed to read. If I buy a book, then I’m going to read the whole freaking thing.

2. Having a system where there two separate ways in which a player could get no actions during a round of combat and both of those ways are entirely out of the player’s control is a horrible horrible idea. Each player has to make a Quickness check during each round to see how many actions (cards) he gets in that round. It’s possible to botch that check and lose the minimum one action that you get in a round. Now you can make that check and when you get your card(s) you could get the Black Joker which is immediately a lost action and takes your highest action card with it. So it’s possible to have a decent roll on your quickness and then still get no actions (note it is possible to have three action cards and still get one). Any system in where there is two separate ways for a player to sit around with his thumb up his ass during combat needs to be re-thought.

3. The Huckster is one of the coolest ideas ever and a mechanical nightmare in practice. For those not in the know the class basically cast arcane spells via poker hands. It sounds awesome except for the fact that unless you get a good number of raises on your Hex rolls you’re only getting a 5 card hand which usually does nothing. So they instantly become a did I get a d12 to go into Spirit or I can’t be a Huckster.

They also have the Black Joker problem which means that it every time you get one in your hand something bad happens to your Huckster. In 4 gaming sessions my character picked up 2 different disadvantages and took damage from getting the Black Joker in his hand.

The Huckster also pigeon holes you into being more of a gambler then I think is necessary for the class. My character concept was actually a Tinhorn doctor that discovered the magic of cards playing Bridge, but you’re stuck being a poker player and an outcast which I just didn’t think was that great.

4. Combat is slower than Christmas with the whole counting down cards system. Especially if the poor Marshall has to run villains of varying quicknesses. It seemed cool at first, but just needs some fine tuning.

The Ugly

1. The game has Call of Cthulhu deadliness to combat, but seems to have a D&D’esque approach to the deadliness of combat. These two don’t really need to mix and it also has the unfortunate side effect of killing off characters with no combat abilities. A guy in our group was playing an investigative photographer who was also a pacifist. Even with actions he spent most of the interminable combats standing there with a thumb up his rear, because he didn’t have a gun and getting close combat to the monsters of the Weird West is usually a bad idea. The integration of CoC investigation and D&D emphasis on combat needs to be rethought before running any of the boxed modules.

2. I think I have already figured out the monster character to play and I don’t own the rules. Basically you make Clint Eastwood’s character in Pale Rider. A holy man that can also plug you one pretty easily if he so desires to do so. Preachers and Shamans have magical powers and it only costs you a single Advantage so taking that and then some gun fighting abilities will turn your character into monster death on a stick in this system. The same could be true for Hucksters, but there’s always that possibility that you’ll start mumbling to yourself, like my character did, when you try to use your abilities.


All in all, I found the world to be neat, but the system and maybe the philosophy of combat in it need to be rethought some. Henry has already agreed that before we play again we need to sit down and rework some stuff in the game to make it more enjoyable.

For those with the time and desire to fix a system with a neat premise, I suggest checking it out.
Username17
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Re: Deadlands interesting concept that needs some help . . .

Post by Username17 »

I would suggest not checking it out.

1. The target number system leads to really weird probability curves, which makes it impossible to game master. There are times when you are better off with a worse die - while you get more 5s on a d6 than a d4, you get more 6s on a d4 than a d6. It's counterintuitive and bad math all around.

2. Those fvckers are fvckers, and went way out of their way to piss me off. That setting specifically has my head cut off and put on a stick in it. Tombstone Frank is a picture of me.

-Username17
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Sir Neil
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Re: Deadlands interesting concept that needs some help . . .

Post by Sir Neil »

FrankTrollman wrote:That setting specifically has my head cut off and put on a stick in it. Tombstone Frank is a picture of me.


:freakedout: . . . well, on the bright side, some deck builders say your card is pretty useful.
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Draco_Argentum
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Re: Deadlands interesting concept that needs some help . . .

Post by Draco_Argentum »

Thats one of the funniest things ever.
MrWaeseL
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Re: Deadlands interesting concept that needs some help . . .

Post by MrWaeseL »

Is there a picture of the card online somewhere? I couldn't find one.
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Josh_Kablack
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Re: Deadlands interesting concept that needs some help . . .

Post by Josh_Kablack »

Image
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
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Sir Neil
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Re: Deadlands interesting concept that needs some help . . .

Post by Sir Neil »

:confused: How did you manage to put your head back on?
Koumei wrote:If other sites had plenty of good homebrew stuff the Den wouldn't need to exist. We don't come here because we like each other.
Draco_Argentum
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Re: Deadlands interesting concept that needs some help . . .

Post by Draco_Argentum »

Probably a pre-beheading card.
User3
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Re: Deadlands interesting concept that needs some help . . .

Post by User3 »

Frank, why do you have a sheriff's badge pinned to your nipple?

That's really weird.
Tae_Kwon_Dan
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Re: Deadlands interesting concept that needs some help . . .

Post by Tae_Kwon_Dan »

Guest (Unregistered) at [unixtime wrote:1103514502[/unixtime]]Frank, why do you have a sheriff's badge pinned to your nipple?

That's really weird.


He's harrowed so he can't feel any pain. Harrowed are intelligent Undead in Deadlands.
The_Hanged_Man
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Re: Deadlands interesting concept that needs some help . . .

Post by The_Hanged_Man »

Frank, I think it's kinda kewl that someone went out of there way to put you head on a stick in their game. It's like . . . a weird, gamer form of respect.
Captain_Bleach
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Re: Deadlands interesting concept that needs some help . . .

Post by Captain_Bleach »

FrankTrollman at [unixtime wrote:1102786436[/unixtime]]se fvckers are fvckers, and went way out of their way to piss me off. That setting specifically has my head cut off and put on a stick in it. Tombstone Frank is a picture of me.

-Username17


Ignore them, and don't take them seriously. On the bright side, it shows their immaturity and makes it that much easier for others to see their lack of acting civilized.
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mean_liar
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Re: Deadlands interesting concept that needs some help . . .

Post by mean_liar »

You're right that the Blessed are the strongest, at least as far as expectations go. A Huckster can pull out heavy mojo on a good draw, but they're always playing with the Black Joker so it really doesn't matter: they screw themselves far more often than they kick ass.

By combing through all the books you can make a really deadly starting Blessed character; with access to starting as a Harrowed with the Book 'o the Dead you can make a supremely deadly Blessed Harrowed.
cthulhu
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Re: Deadlands interesting concept that needs some help . . .

Post by cthulhu »

hehe. My RL gaming group wnats to try the new deadlands: reloaded and I am under enthused as to the merits there of. It suffers from the SAME mechanical problems to - skill dice increases in a d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, d12+1 scale and the default target number is 4, and dice explode. So if a guy with d4 shooting and a guy with d6 shooting fire at the same target, it's fine if the target number is unmodified, but lying down gives a -2 penalty so the target number is now six and its more likely the d4 will hit than the d6.

Ragh.

And character generation gives you 25 points to spend. There is a 'trait' in the game that costs you two points and randomly gives you somewhere between -1 and 13+ 'points' as a result.

Also, people with lower willpower are BETTER at resisting possession/domination by their manitou if they become harrowed.

Oh and hucksters still get the shaft just not quite as badly. Backfire happens if you use a joker in your final hand or don't make the required hand level to use the spell. It's relatively easy to be drawing 9 cards at character generation thanks to previous random trait which gives you huge power ups. That said, if you can get your DM let you do that, hucksters are the gateway to real ultimate power because they have the power of 3rd edition haste as a spell, and whats more casting a huckster spell is a free action (just you can only do it once a round)

Blessed are still the best spellcasters beyond that though. They are basically clerics.

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