It Ends In Darkness - Character Concepts

[MrWaeseL]

I've also noted that we seem shy a Rogue.

*ahem*

[Wrenfield]

1120594333[/unixtime]]4) Scout: I can hide and sneak, but not actually go invisible.

You sorta could. If you took that Roguish feat from the Aberrations-R-Us book that lets your Hide/MS skills apply to Tremorsense, Blindsight, Blindsense, etc.

It's worth a look ...

[Carcharoth]

I was considering some combination of Scout (like, the actual Scout class) or Scout / Ranger, but we seem to have a lot of that covered. Then again, I still think it might be needed if we're exploring dangerous Mezoamerican jungles.

Stealth-almost-posted edit: 2 things)

1) Mr Waesel is playing a Rogue, right?

2) I think my goal is "Wilderness skills dude" here, so I'll see what I can come up with. It occurs to me that hitting stuff is lots of fun, but Kirin will hit stuff, Neeek will be zapping stuff, and Mr. Waesel will be corroding stuff. I might end up playing more of a support character than a damage dealer.

[Wrenfield]

Too bad we don't have a Rogue. The party could really use a Rogue.

I wonder what Mr. Waesel is going to play?

========

BTW, in a party of this size, the "social face contingent" should have people who can both expertly Bluff and expertly Diplomicize. And if some people deem it neccessary, Intimidate.

This will ensure you can cover the full breadth of social engagements. Since some of those skills work when the others don't. And it give more RP opportunities to more people.

Redundancy is good too, in case of attrition, party split-ups, etc.

My Cleric will bow out of the Diplomacy Face group - since it seems well covered by DBB and others.

[Kirin_Corrigan]

It occurs to me that hitting stuff is lots of fun, but Kirin will hit stuff

I sure will (at least, I sure hope so), but it works better if I actually get someone to pair up with for flanking purposes (3.5 whip is a melee weapon, after all, and I get to deal an extra 1d6 of damage while flanking) and the usual strategies: stopping the opposition from concentrating on a single target ( me ), granting a better coverage of the second lines and having someone close to take advantage of and make AoO on those I'll succeed in tripping (a Kick'em while they're down partner would be pretty neat...).

The point is that looks like neither MrW's nor Neeek's attack routines&strategies will ever fill that role... Maybe dbb could, but I feel that another primary frontliner is needed.

[dbb]

Right, then, here we go. My knowledge of Aztec culture is pretty limited, so I'm speaking heavily in generalities here.

Miahuaxiutl (and I'm just going to abbreviate that to 'Mia' until I can memorize the spelling) is probably the daughter of an ordinary farming family from somewhere at least a day or two of walking away from Teotihuacan -- far enough away to be "country folk" in the eyes of people who live in the city, not so far that she's totally detached from the place. The part of the country she comes from is often troubled by raiding humanoids/monsters/hostile human tribes/whatever, and so it tends to breed a sort of stoic and somewhat pessimistic attitude among the people who live there.

During one of the raids that occurred in her youth, Mia was badly injured in a fire; that she survived at all was considered extremely auspicious. When news (somewhat exaggerated) of this occurence reached the ears of an ancient nature-lord who lived in the deep wilderness, he fetched her back to serve as his apprentice, reasoning that nature had already marked her. She has spent the years since then learning his arts, and has earned some modest fame in the area in her own right.

Mia is probably still in her early twenties. She was considered a pretty child when she was younger, but unfortunately no longer; the right side of her face, her right shoulder and much of her right arm are marked with old burn scars. Partly for this reason, she spends a substantial amount of time in animal form.

Miahuaxiutl, human female Druid 10, Neutral Good
S14 I12 W16 +2 = 18 D13 C15 Ch14
Skills: Concentration 13 (+15), Diplomacy 13 (+15), Handle Animal 8 (+10), Knowledge/Nature 13 (+14), Listen 9 (+13), Spot 9 (+13), Survival 13 (+17).
Feats: Ashbound (Human), Greenbound Summoning (1st), Initiate of Malar (3rd), Natural Spell (6th), ? (9th)

Mia's tactics are fairly simple. She turns into a relatively inconspicuous creature (probably an eagle or macaw, if she's outdoors), and starts conjuring things that make life suck for the enemy. She is particularly fond of things like Soften Earth and Stone, Briar Web, Sleet Storm, Spike Stones, etc. Her Summon Nature's Ally spells are automatically doubled in duration, and conjure Plant creatures with an assortment of crazy bonuses and abilities including Entangle on a stick and Wall of Thorns once a day. She prefers to stay at arms' length from opponents and let her conjured annoyances and conjured hitters wear them down rather than engaging in combat herself.

I am really torn on what to take for the 9th level feat, and am waffling among Exalted Wild Shape, Extend Spell (mostly for almost-all-day Greater Magic Fang), or some other summoning-related feat -- some variant on Beckon the Frozen from Frostburn is attractive. Advice is extremely appreciated.

--d.

[dbb]

1120600074[/unixtime]]
I sure will (at least, I sure hope so), but it works better if I actually get someone to pair up with for flanking purposes (3.5 whip is a melee weapon, after all, and I get to deal an extra 1d6 of damage while flanking) and the usual strategies: stopping the opposition from concentrating on a single target ( me ), granting a better coverage of the second lines and having someone close to take advantage of and make AoO on those I'll succeed in tripping (a Kick'em while they're down partner would be pretty neat...).

I can't really commit to frontline coverage myself until I get a better idea of what my combat stats will look like, but I do plan to be conjuring scads of things to suck up enemy actions and hit things that need hitting. Even so, it's not at all clear to me that another PC hitter would be unnecessary.

For reference, a Brown Bear conjured by Mia averages 75 hp, AC 22 with fast healing 3 and DR 10/magic and slashing. It grapples at +28 and has a full attack of 2 claws at +20/1d8+13 and 1 bite at +15/2d6+6. That's not in the league of a real PC fighter, but it can suck up a round or two worth of attacks from a Fire Giant and do some significant damage if it's ignored.

--d.

[Wrenfield]

Kirin & Mr. W.,

You guys will have *plenty* of help getting viable flankers for your attack strategies.

DBB and I will be providing summon monsters galore. Is this too much of a combat niche overlap? I think not. It should be complimentary if anything. DBB summons honk-ass sized planty animals. I summon celestials and special-purpose creatures.

I'm sure we'll both be mindful not to summon if it crowds the floor too much. Nor will we bog down the DM with too much numbers-accounting since we'll make sure the summonees are well managed and directed.

I am really torn on what to take for the 9th level feat, and am waffling among Exalted Wild Shape, Extend Spell (mostly for almost-all-day Greater Magic Fang), or some other summoning-related feat -- some variant on Beckon the Frozen from Frostburn is attractive. Advice is extremely appreciated.

If Frank lets us use Metamagick Rods, use a cheapo Extend Spell Rod.

Otherwise, it's hard to beat the utility of Exalted Wild Shape. Blink Dog especially. Unicorn is kick-ass too for its Aura. Both can speak, too! Again, depends on if those animals are kosher with DM Frank.

[Kirin_Corrigan]

For reference, a Brown Bear conjured by Mia averages 75 hp, AC 22 with fast healing 3 and DR 10/magic and slashing. It grapples at +28 and has a full attack of 2 claws at +20/1d8+13 and 1 bite at +15/2d6+6. That's not in the league of a real PC fighter,

That's far beyond what the poor fighter can muster, actually...

Equipment and magic stuff aside, my stats are going to be more or less:

79.5 HP on average (10d10 +Con*10)

AC unknown, but the base is 13 *counting* dodge. Presumably it'll raise up to 18... I guess I'll have to rely on Expertise or on Power Surge to survive.

Attack routine +20/+15, 1d6+10 /x2 (+1d6)

Trip Attempt +20/+15 against Touch AC, strenght check 1d20+12 (assuming I can slap the Sweeping enchantment on my whip), if succesful -> free attack at +4 to hit.

Disarm Attempt +25/+20.

Saves: F+8 R+5 W+8


That's it. Lower output damage, lower AC, about same HP, no Fast Healing, no DR.

Man, to get in par with your puppy I'd need an armor of Speed à la DotF and a Wrathful Healing whip...

[Essence]

Oops! My bad. The Rogue was too sneaky for my quick read-through to catch. Nevermind, then.

Actually, I've been pondering my original idea, and I think I've come up with something interesting. It seems that a Hexblade would be quite appropriate for the curse-heavy Aztec/Incan environment, and a Hexblade/Divine Crusader/Geomancer would made an interesting build. IDHMBIFOM, though, so I can't check the prereqs or anything. Still, if I can rig it, I'll go for it.

[Neeek]

1120613062[/unixtime]]

Actually, I've been pondering my original idea, and I think I've come up with something interesting. It seems that a Hexblade would be quite appropriate for the curse-heavy Aztec/Incan environment, and a Hexblade/Divine Crusader/Geomancer would made an interesting build. IDHMBIFOM, though, so I can't check the prereqs or anything. Still, if I can rig it, I'll go for it.

You need 8 levels of Hexblade and 2 of Divine Crusader to qaulify for Geomancer. You'll also need WF and 2 ranks in Knowledge(religion)(for Divine Crusader), and 6 ranks in both Knowledge(nature) and Knowledge(arcana)(for Geomancer).

So you'd start as a Hexblade8/DC2 with the next level being a Geomancer, with most of your skill points devoted to various knowledges.

[Neeek]

I seem to be having trouble figuring out what sorts of PrCs I can qualify for at all. Do "See the Unseen" and "Voidsense" count as divinations for the purposes of qualifying for Divine Oracle or Fatespinner, for example?

[Username17]

far enough away to be "country folk" in the eyes of people who live in the city,

That's pretty much anywhere at this time. The closest European analog to Teotihuacan is Rome. The city center boasts a couple hundred thousand people, and it is surrounded by accumulations of more temporary buildings that hoast a couple hundred thousand people. Each. The total population is in the seven digits.

Teotihuacan is the name of the city, and it's the name of the empire. If you aren't from the capitol, people suspect you of being a barbarian or a country bumkin. So if you're from up north in Tula, you're "country folk" - even though you happen to come from a city of over a hundred thousand people. The fact is that you don't come from a city with over a million people in it, and the Empire is called the Teotihuacan Empire, not the Mesoamerican Empire. And if you're one of those half-sized Olmecs from the Tuxtlas mountains, you're totally country-folk, regardless of how many generations your family has lived in the Imperial Center.

I seem to be having trouble figuring out what sorts of PrCs I can qualify for at all. Do "See the Unseen" and "Voidsense" count as divinations for the purposes of qualifying for Divine Oracle or Fatespinner, for example?

According to the rules presented in Complete Arcane, you can qualify for any class that has a prerequisite of "Caster Level X", but you can't qualify for any class that has a prerequisite of "Cast Nth Level Spells". But the reasoning is that you never actually cast spells, and to the best of my knowledge Spell-like abilities have always counted for those kinds of prereqs. So chalk it up to the author of the Warlock being on a lot of crack during the entire writing process.

So the literal rule is that you can't qualify for Divine Oracle, because it requires that you be able to cast 2nd level spells, and you are specifically forbidden from qualifying for that sort of class. But there's no actual reason for that to be true! The fact is that those stupid invocations have Spell Level equivalents, which cause them to count as spells of those levels for the purpose of interacting with other abilities.

And then there's the fact that Invocations do not have school equivalents, event though that is sometimes very important. For those invocations where the school is obvious, I would say that they are in fact of that school. So Chilling Tentacles is a Conjuration Effect, and Voidsense is a Divination effect.

Long story short, the Warlocks and Prestige Classes section says that a Warlock with Voidsense does not qualify for Divine Oracle, but that's retarded. Of course they qualify for Divine Oracle.

-Username17

[Neeek]

Well, that's considerably better. And less confusing.

Am I mistaken in thinking that the Warlock has no abilities beyond 4th level to make it worth continuing in the class past that point? Well, except Imbue Item, something I wouldn't be allowed to use anyway.

I'll probably go Warlock 7/Fatespinner 3 or Warlock 5/Wildmage 3/Fatespinner 2.

[MrWaeseL]

1120603984[/unixtime]]Kirin & Mr. W.,

You guys will have *plenty* of help getting viable flankers for your attack strategies.

Well, seeing as how my tactic was going to be to put the hurt on greased (which makes them flat-footed even on a successful save) enemies with acid flasks I won't flank much. But if anyone knows an easy way to get ranged flanking from straight rogue I'm all ears.

[Username17]

But if anyone knows an easy way to get ranged flanking from straight rogue I'm all ears.

There's throwable slipoil in various supplements. Different writeups have different game effects, almost all of them nearly inconsequential. But in almost all cases, it makes the area into difficult terrain, which means that people lose their dex bonus unless they have ranks in skills that noone has even heard of. That will get you sneak attack without much effort.

But if you want flanking, it's all about the ability to get stupid lots of reach. The stupidest way is to simply use 3.5 weapon-size rules in a manner that hurts people. Huge weapons go 15 ft., 30 ft. if they are a reach weapon. A light huge weapon is two handed for a medium character.

So if you use an oversized light reach weapon, you can for some reason threaten enemies 30' away. That makes flanking a snap.

Of course, that requires using 3.5 weapon size rules, and those are the things that make baby jesus cry. So that's one of the parts of 3.5 that we just aren't going to be using. At all.

I sure will (at least, I sure hope so), but it works better if I actually get someone to pair up with for flanking purposes (3.5 whip is a melee weapon, after all, and I get to deal an extra 1d6 of damage while flanking) and the usual strategies:

Note, the 3.5 Whip is a melee weapon, but has the special rule that it doesn't threten squares, which means that it can't ever flank. Of course, that's retarded. I honestly don't see what the big deal is with people taking a weapon that threatens a lof enemies. It's virtually useless for anything except obscure special combat manuvers unless you sink a bunch of class features into it.

If you want to flank with a Whip, go for it. But remember, that's a house rule. The 3.5 PhB says no flanking with a Whip.

-Username17

[Kirin_Corrigan]

Note, the 3.5 Whip is a melee weapon, but has the special rule that it doesn't threten squares, which means that it can't ever flank. Of course, that's retarded. I honestly don't see what the big deal is with people taking a weapon that threatens a lof enemies. It's virtually useless for anything except obscure special combat manuvers unless you sink a bunch of class features into it.

If you want to flank with a Whip, go for it. But remember, that's a house rule. The 3.5 PhB says no flanking with a Whip.

I'm sorry I've mixed up things in my explanation: it's not much that the whip is a melee weapon but the fact that Lasher 1 allows me to threaten up to 5 ft., therefore I can flank if I get toe-to-toe with the enemy.

Anyway, I'll be more than happy to be able to flank and threaten up to 15 ft., as it will increase my survival chances.

That may even make worthwhile taking Combat Reflexes, too.

Are the Sweeping* and Morphing** enchantments ok with you, Frank?

* Arms & Equipment Guide (disarming is nice too)
** Underdark (I'm interested in the Metalline and Sizing enchantments too)

[Neeek]

Name: Choquilia Cahuitl Player: Neeek

Human Warlock 5/Wild Mage 2/Fate Spinner 3

Str 12
Con 14
Dex 14
Int 16
Wis 13
Chr 15(17)

Skills(name rank(+total bonus):
Bluff 10(+19)
Concentration 13(+15)
Intimidate 10(+19)
Knowledge(arcana) 10(13)
Profession(gambler) 12(+13)
Spellcraft 13(+18)
Use Magic Device 10(+15)

Feats:
1: Magical Aptitude, Sudden Widen
3: Obtain Familiar(Rat)
6: Extra Invocation
9: Flyby Attack

Invocations:
1 Beguiling Influence
2 Miasmic Cloud
4 See the Unseen
6 Fell Flight, Dark One's Own Luck
8 Hungry Darkness
10 Walk Unseen

BAB: +5
Fort: +6
Dex: +7
Will: +8
AC: 12
HP: 53

General Combat Strategy: Fly invisibly over enemies, use Hungry Darkness, Fly straight up.

Back Story:

Orphaned in a raid from a enemy village(or whatever) at age four, Choquilia was adopted and raised by priests of Tezcatlipoca, who sense great innate power within the child. Everything went alright until Choq was 20, and sent out on a raid of the village that killed his parents. When his group arrived at the village, a storm broke out. The fight went poorly for Choq's side, and soon he was the only one left. Scared half to death, surrounded by his enemies, Choq despaired that he would not be able to get his revenge upon the murderers of his parents, when, as his enemies grabbed hold of Choq, a lightning bolt flew from the sky, killing the enemies that grabbed Choq but leaving him a little hot, but unharmed. The remaining enemies were too scared of Choq to continue fighting, so they ran away, while Choq ran back home. After this experience, he was a little...funny. He became obsessed with the power of chaos and random chance and how he could manipulate fate in order to protect himself and those he needed to save.

[Wrenfield]

Neeek,

The caster level of your Eldritch Blast ... is like ... real low. Right?

I don't have books (or the errata) with me. But I believe if you want your EB to act like a higher level spell, you need those EB enhancements. At least one that is.

Otherwise, it's like spitting out a 1st level spell every time with the EB.

Correct me if I am wrong on this though.

[MrWaeseL]

*no name yet*

Male halfling rogue 10

Str 10 (12 base -2 racial)
Dex 20 (16 base +2 racial +2 levels)
Con 15
Int 14
Wis 12
Cha 14

AC 16 (+1 size +5 dex)
Init: +5
Bab/Grp: +7/+3
Hp: 6+9d6+20 (57.5 avg)

Attack: Acid Flask +14 ranged touch (+7 bab +1 size +1 racial +5 dex) ,+15 within 30 ft, 10ft range increment, 1d6 acid damage. (+7 bab +1 size +1 racial +5 dex)
Short Sword +8 melee (+7 bab +1 size), 1d6, 19-20/*2

Full attack: Acid flask +12/+7 and +12/+7 ranged (as above but -2 for TWF), +13/+8 within 30ft, 1d6 acid damage.

Saves:
Fort +6 (3 base +2 con +1racial)
Ref +13 (7 base +5 dex +1 racial)
Will +5 (3 base +1 wis +1racial), +7 vs fear

Feats:
1 Point-Blank Shot
3 quick draw
6 Two-weapon fighting
9 Improved Two-weapon fighting
rogue special: lingering damage

Skills (all at 10 ranks) :
Bluff +15
Diplomacy +15
Disable Device +15
Hide +22
Move Silently +20
Open Lock: +18
Search +15
Sense Motive +14
Spot +14
Use Magic Device +15
all at 0 ranks:
Climb +2
Jump +2
Listen +3

Special Abilities:
Melee SA: +4d6
Ranged SA: +6d6
Trapfinding
Evasion
Improved Uncanny Dodge
Trap Sense +3

having only 4 feats REALLY SUCKS

[Kirin_Corrigan]

I was reading the Morphing weapon ability, which lets you change your weapon to anything vaguely in the same "size" category, and the example specifies you can change a longsword into a composite longbow. Then something occurred to me: Morphing clearly alters the very matter of the weapon... So what's the whole point of the Metalline weapon ability again? Am I right thinking that the Metalline enchantment is redundant once you have the Morphing one?

[dbb]

The text says "any other weapon of the same type". While technically, this wording would let you turn a +1 morphing club into a +1 adamantine holy vorpal defending shocking frost long sword, I think the intent is probably "any other weapon of the same type without gaining or losing any other special abilities". The only part of the entry that even deals with other abilities deals with what happens when you turn a single weapon into a double (which mentions only "magical bonus") or a double into a single (which mentions "properties"), though. Since metalline is a +2 enchantment and morphing is +1, it would be pretty wacky for the former to be subsumed by the latter.

The text gives no real clue as to how to handle what happens when you change an adamantine morphing long sword into a quarterstaff or a composite bow. Then again, I don't think there's any rule other than common sense that actually forbids you to make a quarterstaff out of adamantine in the first place, so it's entirely possible that you end up with an adamantine (or steel, or mithril) quarterstaff.

--d.

[Neeek]

1120723813[/unixtime]]

Otherwise, it's like spitting out a 1st level spell every time with the EB.

Correct me if I am wrong on this though.

You aren't wrong, I just don't plan on using it all that much, and none of the blasts I *could* get are worth losing Flight, Invis, or an AoE attack spell (that doesn't count as an attack spell for Invis) to me.

Also, the spell level of the EB is only relevant for getting around Globes. It's not like there is a save or whatnot, and I can't get any 5th level blasts yet, so I'd be getting it just to get around Minor Globe.

[Username17]

The caster level of your Eldritch Blast ... is like ... real low. Right?

Actually, the caster level of his Eldritch Blast is 10. The SPELL LEVEL is only 1, but since it doesn't allow a save, that's not especially important. A bigger concern with it is that it only does 5 dice of damage, and only fires off once per round.

none of the blasts I *could* get are worth losing Flight, Invis, or an AoE attack spell (that doesn't count as an attack spell for Invis) to me.

If you cast a spell with an area effect, and that are includes a foe, that counts as an attack for the purposes of Invisibility.

For the purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targetting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe

-Username17

[Neeek]

1120753649[/unixtime]]

none of the blasts I *could* get are worth losing Flight, Invis, or an AoE attack spell (that doesn't count as an attack spell for Invis) to me.

If you cast a spell with an area effect, and that are includes a foe, that counts as an attack for the purposes of Invisibility.

Ah. You are correct. My mistake.