It Ends In Darkness - Character Concepts

[Kirin_Corrigan]

Anyway, Vermin Keeper does require Iron Will, which is pretty worthless, but I think it offers full caster progression.

Yup. And It's hands down several times better than Vermin Lord.

At any rate Iron Will is pure gold compared to Vermin Friend... So, yeah, good choice.

The main reason for grabbing Initiate of Malar is because, while it offers almost exactly the same bonus as Augment Summoning, it doesn't have the SF: Conjuration pre-req.

I'll be damned. I could have sworn that Augment Summoning didn't have a feat prerequisite...

[Kirin_Corrigan]

Here's the latest version of my character's build

lvl 01 - Kensai Fighter 1 - Whip prof., +1 hit and dam (Whip) / WF: Whip, Dodge
lvl 02 - Kensai Fighter 2 - Combat Expertise
lvl 03 - Kensai Fighter 3 - / Mobility
lvl 04 - Kensai Fighter 4 - WS: Whip
lvl 05 - Kensai Fighter 5 - +2 hit and dam (Whip)
lvl 06 - Kensai 1 - Signature Weapon / Quick Draw
lvl 07 - Kensai 2 - Power Surge
lvl 08 - Lasher 1 - Whip SA +1d6, Close Combat, Wound, Whip Lash
lvl 09 - Lasher 2 - Improved Trip, Third Hand / Improved Disarm
lvl 10 - Kensai 3 -
lvl 11 - Kensai 4 - Ki Projection
lvl 12 - Kensai 5 - Withstand / Elusive Target
lvl 13 - Lasher 3 - Crack of Fate
lvl 14 - Kensai 6 -
lvl 15 - Lasher 4 - Lashing Whip / Power Attack
lvl 16 - Kensai 7 - Ki Projection
lvl 17 - Kensai 8 - Instill
lvl 18 - Kensai 9 - / ???
lvl 19 - Kensai 10 - Ki Warlord
lvl 20 - Exotic Weapon Master - Trip Attack

I put 4 Lasher levels in it and made the guy a Whip specialist since I believe stuff like Third Hand, Improved Disarm and Improved Trip can make for an interesting and useful character all around. BTW, the last level is just a filler...

Now, I was thinking that the Lasher could benefit from having 4 SP/level, while the Kensai PrC from having full BAB and a bonus feat in its "blank" levels, namely Kensai 3, 6, 9 and 10 (Ki Warlord is a non-ability...). Is this feasible? Any suggestions/opinions on this build?

Last but not least: can my character qualify for Greater Weapon Focus and Greater Weapon Specialization at character levels 8 and 12 respectively as if he was a fighter of the same total level?

[Neeek]

1119404279[/unixtime]]

Hmm. How about making Tiger and Dragonfly always on, with no uses per day?

Sure. Admittedly, Bellflower would either lose functionality or become very very powerful were it to be always on. Of course, in the long run the ability to get a +6 enhancement bonus to every stat is actually no big deal at all. Maybe that bonus should be unnamed, like a Rage bonus?

So the possibilities are an (enhancement or unnamed) bonus for (4 rounds or all day), (once or 4 times) a day? *My* preference should be obvious, but I don't think that taking all of the second options is necessarily fair.

[dbb]

Minor modification: you have to have Cleric or Druid Level 3 for Initiate of Malar, assuming it's legal. So feat progression would look something like this:

Human (Greenbound Summoning)
Druid 1 (Iron Will or open)
Druid 2
Druid 3 (Initiate of Malar)
Druid 4
Druid 5
Druid 6 (Natural Spell)
Druid 7
Druid 8
Druid 8/Vermin Keeper 1 or Druid 9 (open; maybe Exalted Wild Shape)
Druid 8/Vermin Keeper 2 or Druid 10

I would probably go on to Druid 8/Vermin Keeper 4 and then back to Druid, if I end up going that direction. I may just turf it out entirely, though, as (while undeniably cool) wildshaping into a scorpion may not be worth delaying Tiny and Plant Wildshape (if they exist in this game).

I think there's also a feat from Eberron or something that would answer to the same purpose (getting to turn into a scorpion) without the annoyance of prestige classing.

--d.

Edit: You know, upon further review of the Greenbound template, that may be too good a feat. What do the rest of you think?

[Kirin_Corrigan]

I think I've made up my mind: my character's name will be Tecpatl Coatl.

Has anyone else already chosen his character's name?

BTW, Frank, can you give me your impression on my character's build (a couple of posts above)? How do you feel about those tweaks?

[Neeek]

After further consideration, I've decided not to go with the monk. For 3 reasons. Frank doesn't like it. Statistically, I'd suck. And justifying it in the culture was problematic.

So, instead, I'll just go straight Warlock, a devout worshipper of Tezcatlipoca, with an emphasis on stealth and movement. My name will be Choquilia Cahuitl.

[MrWaeseL]

Who's going to be the face? Me or the druid?

[Username17]

Frank, can you give me your impression on my character's build (a couple of posts above)? How do you feel about those tweaks?

I've always been kinf od puzzled about the Third Hand Ability. It seems like almost all the stuff you can do with it would be things that you could just plausibly do if you had the whip proficiency and the Use Rope skill. So for the most part it's the ability to replace a Skill Check with an Attack Roll - which is generally speaking the opposite direction of where you want to go.

Other than that, it seems like a character who has successfully tweaked themselves into being about the power and utility level of a Rogue. As that seems to be the direction most of the characters are going, it seems like Tecpatl will fit right in.

You know, upon further review of the Greenbound template, that may be too good a feat. What do the rest of you think?

Here's the big thing to remember: When a summoned creature's time expires or they are beaten to death, all of their non-instantaneous magical effects get auto-dispelled. So when you Greenbound Summon a plant dog to cast Entangle for you, the entangle effect ends as soon as they do (which will happen in 1 round/level), rather than when the Entangle would normally expire (10 rounds/ level).

Is it really good? Hellz yeah it's really good. But provisionally I think it'll be about on par with the rest of the party.

-Username17

[Wrenfield]

Embarrassingly, I posted in the other Forum to see how things were going with the game prep. Had no clue that things were tootin' right along at "In The Trenches".

Sooooo .... what does the current party roster look like?

And are there any spots left open?

I'd love to fill any open vacancies - especially one of the following:

Wizard, Cleric, Artificer, Bard (I'm not kidding!), Rogue, Charisma-based Combatant, or a Chameleon (RoDestiny - an ombudsman if you will).

[Neeek]

So far this is what I gather we have:

dbb: Druid(Mostly standard build with some Vermin Keeper Levels).

Kirin: Finesse-style whip fighter.

Neeek: Warlock(with mostly stealth and movement powers, as well as UMD)

Mr. Weasal: Rogue

Essence: Holy Tank guy of some sort or other.

And that's what everyone who posted a character idea.

[Wrenfield]

Thanks Neeek.

Okey-doke. That looks like a tentative 5 to me.

Not sure if Frank and Mystery DM wanna stick with that as a the max. # of players ... but if not, I'll volunteer to fill-in my perception of what you guys are missing. That being either a Cleric or a Wizard.

Either way, I can build a Cleric who also can do Wizardly things (PGtF/FRCS Spell & Illusion Domains). Or alternately, a Wizard who can also heal (via fabbing Healing Salves, Arcane Disciple feat, etc).

Essence's character concept may be more Clericky in the final build - depending upon his domain choice for Divine Crusader. So perhaps the Wizard angle is best.

This is of course, pending approval of DM flavor-concept for the character. And of course, it would be built to fit in under Mexican culture, circa year 900.

[Kirin_Corrigan]

Bard (I'm not kidding!)

Lemme guess... Snowflake Wardancer?

[Carcharoth]

Well... crap. Someone just posted in IMHO that the character creation thread is here. I've completely missed it so far, and will be heading out shortly for July 4th festivities. Is it too late for me to read up and post for this tomorrow?

[Username17]

No. It is not too late.

Snowflake Wardancer might be a little hard to pull off. There are places around Teotihuacan where it hasn't snowed for about 2000 years.

-Username17

[Wrenfield]

Okay ... if this build and character concept is approved by the party and Cpt. Frank, I'll post her en toto.

Teotalco of the Feathered Rod

Lawful Good Cleric of the deity QUETZALCOATL ... God of Civilization and Learning). Most likely, the moral compass of the group as well.

*****

Cleric 3 / Church Inquisitor 4 / Thaumaturgist 3

Hu = (Extend Spell), Persistant Spell
01 = Chain Spell
03 = Divine MetaMagic: Chain Spell
06 = Spell Focus: Conjuration
09 = Craft Rod

Domains = Planning (Extend Spell feat) and Spell (PGtF)

*****

Mechanically, this Cleric is here to provide dual purpose as both the utility "wizard" and to perform traditional party Cleric roles. Since Neeek is there to kill via arcane fun, and DBB/Essence is there to provide alternate divine spellcasting roles, Teotalco will be a support caster extraordinaire. She will be able to cast Chained GMW on every goddamn weapon, missile & melee, that the party owns. More than once per day, assuming Frank gets generous with enemy Dispel Magic (which I assume he will) . In addition, she can cast "standard action" Summon Monster spells that create some nifty buffed-out beasties.

With the Spell Domain, she will be able to Teleport the party at the next level (11th). In addition to casting whatever arcane spell of 5th level or lower - that becomes neccessary for the group.

Her Rodcraft is for Rapid Spell Metamagick Rods on the cheap (for her Summons spells).

She can't turn worth a crap. Boo-hoo. Nor is she an Archer Cleric. But she can still run a Divine Power/Spikes combo to fight on the front line. As well as cast Revivify/Raise Dead and all that other Cleric restoration hooey. She'll even be throwing out some Minor Images for fun (via Anyspell) and Doomtides (because it's a powerful battlefield control spell).

***

DBB and Essence ... I don't want Teotalco to step on any of your "divine spellcasting role" toes, so holler if any of her build mechanics don't work for you.

[Kirin_Corrigan]

She will be able to cast Chained GMW on every goddamn weapon, missile & melee, that the party owns. More than once per day, assuming Frank gets generous with enemy Dispel Magic (which I assume he will) .

That's great, but until you hit level 13 you can use that only via Divine Metamagic, and (assuming you pick the first array) you can do that twice per day only if you slap a 16 in charisma, raise it up two points at 4th and 8th level and get at least a +2 charisma item. At that point I wonder why you took Persistent Spell instead of Extra Turning, which would grant you two uses, plus a potential third use if you do the above.

In addition, she an cast "standard action" Summon Monster spells that create some nifty buffed-out beasties.
(...)
Her Rodcraft is for Rapid Spell Metamagick Rods on the cheap (for her Summons spells).

That's not farfetched, actually. I can't recall if there's a Rod of Summoning out there, so my reasoning assumes there's none: now, although Rods have odd activation times, if you want to use the Rod of Wonder as a precedent that you can activate SM as a standard action, there's no reason to say you can't activate it as a free action either or even as a contingent effect (face enemy, pop out beast). The point is that each and every effect of a Rod is tweaked in its own peculiar way and there's no hard and fast rule to gauge what activation time you should use in any given situation.

Just my 2 cents.

[Wrenfield]

Kirin,

Nope. Nightsticks solve the multiple DivMeta problem. Very cheap. Check the Libris Mortis book. I really want to be sure to keep everyone's weapons fully cranked at all times. We may wish to buy a Karma Bead with party funds to ensure that all our weapons get an additional +1 to the initial casting of Chained GMW. But that's a collective decision. Now no one has to buy additional +X's to their weapons. They can use their money for weapon enhancements and other things instead.

That Persistent spell feat acquisition is wrong - sorry for not omitting that in the initial post (fast typing). It's now another feat. Actually ... 3 feats ... still choosing at this time. Most like Domain Spontaneity (Spell Domain for Anyspell/Greater Anyspell). This will give her more Wizard/Cleric flexibility. And as we speak, she trying to cobble together her spell book for a few 5th level spells for next level, as well as some nice 1st and 2nd level Wiz spells for other stuff now.

My custom "Rapid" Rods uses the Metamagic Rod mechanics in the DMG as a base. So no activation time at all. Use Extra Spell Metamagic Rod as a baseline.

Thanks for the comments, Kirin.

[Wrenfield]

Just to note too, if Frank is handing out equipment, I completely understand.

If the name and sourcebook of Nightsticks seem antithetical to ancient Mexican culture, we could also reconfigure their name and description to fit in to the current environment. Otherwise, I'll just have to crank Charisma and take the Extra Turning feat.

Either way, I don't wanna cause problems.

[Carcharoth]

Are you kidding? Mexico loves the undead!

As for character concepts, I was originally thinking of some sort of 1/1 BAB type Ranger / Barbarian Jaguar Warrior, but Ess seems to have that covered. Given the list so far, I'm seriously pondering some sort of arcane caster, but I feel my cheese is small and weak for what that generally implies. I'm playing one in 2 other games and would really like to hit stuff.

[dbb]

I've been sort of tentative about staking out roles because I'm not sure what the house rules are going to end up looking like. I think it's probably fair to assume that divine spellcasters will get hit by the nerf stick to some degree and arcane spellcasters to a somewhat lesser degree, but that's honestly just me taking a wild guess.

Now that I think about it, "role in party" would maybe have been a better place to start than with actual builds, but oh well.

Anyway, I envision the druid as fulfilling the following roles, in rough order of "how good at these things are you?":

1) Battlefield Support: Conjure things up that act as secondary damage dealers or enemy-action sponges; shape the battlefield; channel, delay, or confine the enemy.

2) Secondary Frontliner: The mods to Wildshape mean that druids are less effective in this role, but they should still be able to act as a decent melee fighter. My most conservative goal here is "at least as good as a level X Warrior".

3) Primary/Secondary Diplomat: Primary when dealing with things that aren't normally subject to Diplomacy, e.g., animals, magical beasts, and (if I take Vermin Keeper) vermin. Secondary to a more dedicated diplomacizer when dealing with humans and humanoids. If nobody else wants to do face duty with humans -- I should be able to subsume that role without much fuss.

4) Scout: Secondary to a dedicated Rogue.

5) Secondary Healer: A Druid with a wand of CLW is as good a healer as anyone really needs. A Druid without one is ... not a very good healer.

--d.

[dbb]

Oh, and I have to say it:

Neek's not going to do a monk? Who's going to cover for the monk?



--d.

[Neeek]

From d's criteria:

1) Seondary Battlefield Support: I will have Hungry Darkness and Miasmic Cloud for this, along with UMD. At level 11 I get Chilling Tentacles, which puts me into the primary category here.

2) Ranged Support: No "frontlining" here, but I'll be flying with a 5d6 shot. Not great, I know, but not terrible either.

3) Primary Diplomat: I guess. I'll have Beguiling Influence.

4) Scout: Better than a primary rogue. Flight/Invis/Devil's sight/Hungry Darkness

5) Secondary Healer: Hooray for UMD. And unlike our Druid, I'll probably have time to do it in combat. Also, I can heal myself. Sort of.

[Kirin_Corrigan]

1) Hitting stuff in any conceivable way, be it in melee or at range (i guess I'll get some ranks in fletching, unless someone will be able to Fabricate a few arrows every now and then).

2) Tripping and generally cramping down the opposition, disarming and snatching stuff from their hands or bodies; retrieving stuff out of reach when need.

3) Meat shield, as a frontliner I guess I'll soak most of the damage, willing or not

4) Primary Cure X Wounds target, I'll suck'em down like nobody's business.

5) Secondary scout and diplomat, at Kensai 4 (11th level) I get a little boost in social skills adding half my kensai levels to them and at Kensai 7 (15th level, I guess) I get full Kensai levels to Diplomacy and stuff, good but sadly a bit "late".

[MrWaeseL]

1) Battlefield Support: If I can sneak it (and it is not immune to acid), it will die.

2) Secondary Frontliner: I'm not a melee character

3) Primary/Secondary Diplomat: Primary. I have bluff and diplomacy, which should cover most of our needs.

4) Scout: I can hide and sneak, but not actually go invisible.

5) Secondary Healer: I can activate wands with my UMD.

I might be able to fit some roles better, depending on which wands I'll get.

[Essence]

Carcharoth: If you want to do the Jaguar Warrior thing, you go right ahead. The Barb5/Rngr2/Divine Crusader 3 was kinda off-the-top-of-me-head in the first place, and while it'll be a solid build, I'm willing to play something else entirely if you'd rather hit stuff.

I've also noted that we seem shy a Rogue. I'm totally kewl with filling that role. I'll work on a build for it over the next couple of days. Prolly I'll still be a Manik worshipper, though.