Prodigal Skill Use

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Oberoni
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Prodigal Skill Use

Post by Oberoni »

Ok, this thread got me to thinkin.' I know, scary, but I did me some thinkin' anyhoo.

Why are there so few high-level skill uses?

People with 12(ish) ranks in a skill are just amazing at it--they are better at it than a supermajority of the world could ever hope to be. They are true masters of their craft--why shouldn't they get abilities that lesser men could only dream of?

I propose Prodigal uses for each skill--that is, skill uses and abilities that only kick in when someone is sufficiently familiar with and accomplished at a particular skill.

All of these are Supernatural abilities with that take a standard action to activate unless noted otherwise. All of these abilities have a save DC of (10+1/2 HD+Charisma modifier) unless noted otherwise. All of these abilities have a caster level equal to the character's Hit Dice unless noted otherwise. Finally, all of these are usable at will unless noted otherwise.

Of course, in a game where "realism" is more heavily emphasized, one could simply disallow Prodigal uses. That's not as much fun, though, especially if you still let the casters have their jollies.

Here's just some I thought of while takin' a shower. Feedback and additional uses are welcome.

Appraise: A character with 10 or more ranks in Appraise can use identify as a spell-like ability that takes as long as a casting of the spell to use. A character with 14 or more ranks in Appraise can use identify as a standard action. A character with 18 or more ranks in Appraise gains Analyze Dwoemer as a spell-like ability, but only when analyzing objects.
A character with 7 or more ranks in Appraise can spend a move action to discern a weakness in an opponent's armor, treating that subject's armor bonus as 2 less than usual for the rest of that combat. For every 2 additional ranks in Appraise, the amount of the armor bonus ignored increases by 1.

Bluff: A character with 9 or more ranks in Bluff may make 2 saves instead of one against any effect which can discern the truth, or prevent lies, that targets him. Each of these saves is made with a +2 competence bonus. The character uses the better of the two saves.

Climb: A character with 12 ranks in Climb may always act as if under the effect of spider climb and the psionic feat Up the Walls.

Concentration: A character with 12 or more ranks in Concentration can focus on remaining conscious despite overwhelming pain. He gains Diehard as a bonus feat.

Craft: Man, this skill sucks. How about...a character with 7 or more ranks in Craft can do one week's work in that craft in one day instead.

Decipher Script: A master at deciphering script can visualize spoken words quickly in his head, and draw upon his experiences to decipher them quickly. A character with 9 or more ranks in Decipher Script can use Comprehend Languages as a spell-like ability at will. A character wtih 14 or more ranks in Decipher Script can use Tongues as a spell-like ability at will.

Diplomacy: A character with 12 ranks in Diplomacy can spend a standard action in combat to use his wordsmithing skills to inspire his allies. His allies gain a morale bonus to attack and damage rolls equal to (ranks in Diplomacy/4 [round down]). Furthermore, the character makes a Diplomacy check with a DC of 30 when using this ability; if he passes the check, the total morale bonus increases by 1.

Disable Device: A character with 12 ranks in Disable Device can deliver a touch attack to a Construct. The Construct must make a Fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 HD of the character+Charisma modifier) or be destroyed instantly. Even if the Construct makes the save, it still takes 5d6 points of damage.
A character with 15 ranks in Disable Device can actually pull apart the various patterns that fuel magic. He may make a Disable Device roll against any magical effect with a duration (even one of Permanent), opposed by a Spellcraft roll from the caster of the effect. If he wins the roll, the effect ends. He may only use this ability once per day per effect.

Disguise: A character with 12 or more ranks in Disguise gains Alter Self as a spell-like ability.
A character with 18 or more ranks gains Polymorph (self only) as a spell-like ability.

Escape Artist: A character with 12 or more ranks in Escape Artist gains Freedom of Movement as a spell-like ability.

Forgery: A character with such legendary power of falsifying documents can even fool the Weave itself into believing that the scrolls he creates are real. A character with 12 ranks in Forgery gains Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat. In addition, the character may at any time choose any spell he has seen, even a spell not on his spell list (if he even has a spell list). From that point on, he may scribe scrolls of that spell, following the standard rules for scribing scrolls, except he may use his HD as his caster level if he so wishes. Furthermore, he may use these scrolls as if he was a caster with a caster level equal to his HD that had the spell on his spell list. Only one spell may be chosen in this fashion. For every 3 skill ranks above 12, he may repeat this process with one additional spell.

Gather Information: A character with 15 or more ranks in Gather Information gains Legend Lore as a spell-like ability. It takes as long to use the ability as it would to cast the spell.

Handle Animal: A character with 8 or more ranks in Handle Animal gains Speak with Animals as a spell-like ability. A character with 11 or more ranks in Speak with Animals gains Charm Animal as a spell-like ability. A character with 14 or more ranks in Handle Animal gains Dominate Animal as a spell-like ability. A character with 17 or more ranks in Handle Animal may as a move action make a Handle Animal check to sever the bond between one creature and a creature bonded to it (such as a wizard's familiar, druid's animal companion, paladin's mount, etc.) This is a supernatural ability with a close range and a duration of 1 hour/level duration; a Will save equal to the character's Handle Animal check negates. When the bond is severed, the bonded creature is treated as a regular creature of its type, and loses any special abilities from being a bonded creature. Likewise, the creature to which the bonded creature was bonded loses any benefits the bond may have granted. This last ability is a supernatural ability.

Heal: A character with 6 or more ranks in Heal may spend one hour with one creature before that creature gets 8 hours of rest. The character makes a Heal check. In addition to the normal healing the creature might otherwise get for one full night of rest, it also recovers HP equal to the heal check made. This is an extraordinary ability.
A character with 9 or more ranks in Heal may treat any number of creatures in the same one-hour period, instead of just one creature.
A character with 8 or more ranks in Heal gains Cure Light Wounds as a spell-like ability usable 5 times a day. This becomes Cure Moderate Wounds with at least 10 ranks; Cure Serious Wounds with at least 12 ranks; Cure Critical Wounds with at least 14 ranks, and Heal with 16 or more ranks.

Hide: A character with 10 or more ranks in Hide may use invisibililty as a spell-like ability. A character with 15 or more ranks in Hide may use improved invisibility as a spell-like ability.

Intimidate: A character with 12 or more ranks in Intimidate can spend a standard action in combat to inspire terror in his enemies. The character may choose any number of creatures within close range. All of these creatures gain a morale penalty to attack and damage rolls equal to (ranks in Intimidate/4 [round down]). Furthermore, the character makes a Intimidate check with a DC of 30 when using this ability; if he passes the check, the total morale penalty increases by 1. This is a supernatural, mind-affecting ability.

Jump: A character with 10 ranks in Jump gains a version of the Pounce extraordinary ability; he may make a full attack at the end of a charge action.
A character with 15 ranks in Jump gains a flight speed equal to the speed of his most commonly used movement rate (maneuverability average). This is a supernatural ability.

Knowledge: A character with 10 or more ranks in a particular knowledge skill may choose a creature type that is covered by that field of knowledge, if any. The character treats that creature type as if he were a 1st level ranger that chose that creature type as a favored enemy. If the character already has the Favored Enemy ability with that creature type already chosen as a favored enemy, all of the bonuses increase by 2.

Listen: A character with 12 or more ranks in Listen gains Blindsight out to 30 feet. This is negated by any effect that completely negates sound.

Move Silently: A character with 12 or more ranks in Move Silently may use Silence as a spell-like ability. Unlike the regular version of Silence, this only effects the character, his equipment, and wherever he's stepping. meaning that he makes no noise under any circumstances. This also means that the character is immune to language-dependent and sonic effects. This is dismissable as a free action.

Open Lock: You know, this skill really should be part of Disable Device. Anyways, a character with 12 ranks in Open Lock can actually pry open space itself; he may use the ability Dimension Door exactly as a Blink Dog does. A character with 15 ranks can Teleport as a spell-like ability. A character with 18 ranks can Plane Shift as a spell-like ability; the focus requirement is the same as the spell of the same name.

Perform: This has the same Prodigal use as Diplomacy. Hey, the only reason you're even dropping points into this is because you're a Bard, so you already get a crapload of special abilities from your skill. So there.

Profession: Um...a character with 7 or more ranks in Profession may perform one week's worth of work in one day.
A character with 9 or more ranks in Profession may choose any other skill and gain a +2 bonus to that skill. I don't even care if it makes much sense. If you want to say that sailing all over the world has made you an expert in understanding magic, go right ahead.

Ride: This has the same Prodigal use as Diplomacy, but with two exceptions: It only effects your mount, and it is a free action.

Search: A character with 10 or more ranks in Search gains the rogue's Trapfinding ability. A character that would already otherwise have this ability gains a +3 competence bonuse to finding traps.
A character with 12 or more ranks in Search may spend a full-round action searching a 10-foot-by-10-foot area, or a volume of goods 10 feet on a side.
A character with 15 or more ranks in Search has developed such a scrutinous eye that he may choose any divination spell with "Detect" in its name; he may always act as if under the effects of this spell, and does not need to concentrate to do so. For every 3 additional ranks in Search, he may choose another divination spell with "Detect" in its name and gain the ability.

Sense Motive: A character with 10 or more ranks in Sense Motive may use Discern Lies as a spell-like ability.

Sleight of Hand: A character with 12 or more ranks in Sleight of Hand may make a skill check to take a spell that has a duration and is on another creature. The character removes the spell from the other creature and may place it on himself if desired. If the character has no idea what spell he's trying to steal, he removes one randomly. This is a supernatural ability.

Spellcraft: A character with 12 or more ranks in Spellcraft may detect the subtle magical ripples in the mere moments before a teleportation effect is used to enter any area within the character's line of sight. He is not surprised by any creatures that enter via the area via that teleportation effect, and may warn his companions so that they are not surprised either.
A character with 15 or more ranks in Spellcraft and the ability to Quicken a spell may, as a free action, use up the a quickened spell (as if it had been cast) to add an additional penalty to the afore-mentioned teleportation effect; any creature entering the area through the teleportation effect may take no actions for a number of rounds equal to the level of the spell used up. During this time, all such creatures are flat-footed.

Spot: A character with 12 or more ranks in Spot acts as if under the effects of See Invisibility.

Survival: A character with 7 or more ranks in Survival gains resistance equal to his ranks in Survival to all attacks that deal acid, cold, electricity, fire, or sonic damage.

Swim: A character with 7 or more ranks in Swim gains a Swim speed equal to his most commonly-used movement rate. This is an extraordinary ability. A character with 10 or more ranks in Swim can breathe underwater.

Tumble: A character with 12 or more ranks in Tumble may perform an additional 5-foot step each round. This may be performed at any time, even during another creature's attack action. If this is used to avoid a melee or ranged attack, the character must make a Tumble check as if he is trying to use Tumble to avoid an attack of opportunity; success means that the attack is avoided.

Use Magic Device: A character with 9 or more ranks in Use Magic Device may cast spells as a 1st level caster in a class of his choice. For every 2 additional ranks in Use Magic Device, he gains an additional bonus caster level. Thus, a character with 13 ranks in Use Magic Device may choose to cast spells as a 3rd level spellcaster of his choice.

Use Rope: A master of Use Rope learns to tap into the primal binding and restricting forces of the universe. Kinky. A character with 12 or more ranks in Use Rope. gains Hold Monster as a spell-like ability. Unlike the spell, this ability does not possess the Mind-Affecting descriptor. A length of rope is required as a focus for this ability.
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Re: Prodigal Skill Use

Post by rapanui »

I'm soooo stealing some of these.
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Essence
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Re: Prodigal Skill Use

Post by Essence »

Badass ideas, O, but don't you mean "Prodigious"?

Anyway -- Move Silently shouldn't be like Climb, only weaker. It should give you a personal-only Silence whenever you want to have one.

And having the Bluff ability should negate the Sense Motive ability.

And Open Locks should eventually net you Plane Shift. :wink:

I like it. How about, for the psionic skills:

Autohypnosis 12 ranks gets you immunity to nausea and dazing.
Stabilize Self 12 ranks gets you self-only Cure Minor Wounds as a full-round action.

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Re: Prodigal Skill Use

Post by Oberoni »

Dude, Prodigal all the way. Everyone loves those little pingers. I'm referring, of course, to the Prodigal Sorcerer.

Move Silently granting a personal-range Silence? Yeah, that's not bad. At first, I thought it might as well just give you Move Silently of infinity, but, y'know, I guess not being able to talk or cast spells is a tradeoff.

The Bluff ability already actively thwarts the Sense Motive ability; I'm not sure if you're implying that it should be automatically thwarted or not, but I don't like the feel of that.

Open Locks granting Planeshift? I like it!

Rapa, glad you like them.
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Josh_Kablack
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Re: Prodigal Skill Use

Post by Josh_Kablack »

Although I think some of you have seen these before, here are the relevant parts of my current houserules:

Revisions to the 3.5 D&D Skills for Josh’s Finest Hour Campaign.
(These are based upon the 3.5 SRD and ideas discussed in the TPN project)

**Appraise**
New Use for Appraise:
Identify an ability of a magic item DC =15 + caster level of that ability.

** Balance **
Extensions to existing DC table:
Balance on a surface as if weightless (this allows you to walk over snow without leaving footprints or stride on rice paper without tearing it) DC 25
Balance on a wire, thread or other surface too small to see DC 30
Balance on water or other liquid DC 45
Balance on gaseous, incorporeal or ethereal substances: DC 60

Surface moving (such as a log in a stream) +5*
Surface moving rapidly or highly erraticly (such as on top of a runaway carraige) +5*

*these are cumulative with each other and the other DC modifiers. All modifiers also apply to the DCs for new uses for balance:

New Uses for Balance

Change direction once while taking the run or charge action: DC 35. Failure means you cease moving instead of changing direction. Failure by 5 or more means you fall, becoming prone.

Change direction an additional time while running or charging: DC 30 + 10 for each previous turn made during the run or charge. (Thus the first turn is DC 35, the second DC 40, the third DC 50, the fourth DC 60, etc)

Special: A character with 5 or more ranks in balance may choose to be considered a prone defender (whether he is actually prone) or not (even if he is prone) against any attack when he takes the total defense action ("Whoa."). A charater with 10 or more ranks in balance may choose to be considered a prone defender or not against any attack when he takes the fight defensively action. A character with 15 or more ranks in balance may chose to be considered a prone defender or not against any attack.

** Climb **
Changes and exetensions to existing DC Table:
Climb a smooth, flat vertical surface, such as polished marble: DC 30
Climb on an overhang or ceiling without handholds: DC 35

Surface moving (such as the side of a ship) +5*
Surface moving rapidly or highly erraticly (such as climbing the side of an enraged purple worm) +5*

*these are cumulative with each other and the other DC modifiers. All modifiers also apply to the DCs for new uses for Climb:

New Uses for Climb:

Evasive Climbing: If you take a -10 penalty on Climb tjecks, you may retain your dexterity bonus while climbing.

Climb out of a Web, Solid Fog or similar spell: DC = 25 + Spell level.

Escape from an Imprisonment Spell DC 75. This can only be attempted once, on the round after the spell is cast upon you. If a successful you escape from the spell in a mere 1d4 rounds.

** Craft **
New Use for Craft:
This skill now allows people to qualify for Item Creation Feats. You may substitute a number of skill ranks equal to 3+the required caster level to be able to select an Item Creation Feat and use it to create magic items related to that craft skill. When creating items, you automatically satisfy any caster level requirement that is 3 less than your ranks in a relevant Craft. You must still fulfill all other requirements to create magic items, and you may only create magic items which are relevant to Craft skills you possess. Thus a character with 9 ranks in Craft(weaponsmithing) could select Craft Magic Arms and Armor and could craft a +2 longsword with it, but unless he had a caster level of 5 or ranks in Craft(armorsmith) he could not make a +2 shield; nor could he make a +1 Keen longsword unless he had access to Keen Edge.

** Decipher Script **
New Uses for Decipher Script:

Detect Forgery: You may use you Decipher Script skill in place of your Forgery to detect a forged document.

Decipher Magical Text: If you succeed at a DC 20 + spell level Decipher Script tjeck, you may identify written spell (such as a scroll). One try per day. Requires a full-round action.

** Escape Artist **
New Uses for Escape Artist

Move Through a Solid Fog or Acid Fog at full speed: DC 45
Move through a Wall of Thorns at full speed without taking damage: DC 50
Pass Through an Otiluke’s Resilient Sphere, a Wall of Force or similar effect: DC 60
Escape from an Imprisonment Spell DC 75. This can only be attempted once, on the round after the spell is cast upon you. If a successful you escape from the spell in a mere 1d4 rounds.

** Forgery**
New Uses for Forgery:
You may now use forgery to fake items other than writings and documents. You could forge a lost crown, a famous painting or furniture from a royal dynasty. To make such a forgery generally also requires an appropriate Craft skill tjeck. If you have 5 or more ranks in a relevant knowledge skill for the item you are counterfitting you gain a +2 synergy bonus to such attempts. This type of Forgery is opposed by the examiner’s Appraise tjeck, but otherwise uses the pre-existing forgery conditions and modifiers

** Heal **
New Uses For Heal:

Rapid Care:
Heal patient a full day’s worth of natural healing to HP or ability scores with only ten minutes of care: DC 25 (counts against normal daily natural healing)
Heal patient a full day's worth of natural healing to HP or ability scores as a standard action: DC 35 (counts against normal daily natural healing)
Heal patient of HP or ability score damage as if he had undergone 24 hours of bedrest in one round: DC 45 (counts against normal daily natural healing)
If you use Rapid Care in conjunction with Long-Term care, the patient recovers the amount listed under the rapid care option in the indicated time frame and then recovers the other half of the doubled rate over the period of long-term care.

Cure Adverse Conditions:

Heal may now be used to treat, cure, reduce or remove a number of adverse conditions which can affect a patient. Each condition requires a seperate tjeck and treating a condition does not prevent it from re-occuring (If you successfully Treat Nasuea on a character within a Stinking Cloud, they may still become Nasueated again on their next action). Note that some conditions can be treated more quickly at a higher DC. Note also that a character with a sufficiently high Heal skill will be better off taking 20 on the higher DC to treat a condition rapidly than by rolling normally at the lower DC.

Note that taking 20 is possible on Heal tjecks and therefore a character with a high enough Heal skill may be able to cure a condition quicker by taking 20 on the higher DC for treating a condition as a standard action and thereby treating a condition in 20 rounds (2 minutes) of standard actions than they would by rolling for the lower DC for the longer time period

Cure patient of Stun rounds: DC 30 + number of accumulated stun rounds. Doing so requires a standard action

Reduce Fear Effects (panicked to frightened, or frightened to shaken) DC 30. Doing so requires a standard action, each success reduces the severity of the patient’s fear condition. A single success could reduce a patient from Panicked to Frightened or from Frightened to Shaken. Two successful uses could reduce a patient from Panicked to Shaken or from Frightened to not suffering any fear effects.

Revive a dead patient: DC 45 + 1 for every round patient has been dead. This requires 10 minutes of treatment (determine the DC by counting the number of rounds until treatment began) The patient becomes stable at -9 HP on successful tjeck.

Cure Paralysis with 10 minutes of treatment: DC 30
Cure Paralysis as a standard action: DC 40
Cure Blindness with 10 minutes of treatment: DC 35
Cure Blindness as a standard action: DC 45
Cure Deafness with 10 minutes of treatment: DC 35
Cure Deafness as a standard action DC 45
Treat Nasusea: DC 30. Doing so requires a standard action and leaves the patient still Sickened.
Cure Sickened patient: DC 30. Doing so rquires a standard action.
Treat Exhaustion: DC 25. Doing so requires 10 minutes of care and leaves the patient still Fatigued.
Cure Petrification: DC 55 Doing so requires 8 hours of care
Treat Negative Levels: DC 35+number of accumulated negative levels. Doing so requires 10 minutes of care and on a successful tjeck.
(on successful tjeck, patient will automatically succeed in save to remove negative levels)

Additional New Uses for Heal:

Reattach severed Limb to patient: DC 45 Doing so requires 8 hours of care.
Rebuild missing limb for patient DC 50. Doing so requires 8 hours of care.

** Intimidate **
This skill now also leads troops.

New Use for Intimidate:

Rally Troops: You may use intimidate to counter fear effects generated by others. To do so, you make a normal intimidate tjeck. All allies within 5’ of you who are currently suffering from a fear effect gain a new saving throw against that fear effect, using your Intimidate tjeck result in place of their saving throw. If you take a -5 your tjeck, you may rally all allies within 30’; If you take a -10 to this tjeck, you may rally all allies within 100”; If you take a -20’ to this roll, you may rally all allies within earshot.

** Jump **
Change to existing use for Jump:
<Replace the rules for Jumping Down with the following:>
Jumping Down: If you intentionally jump from a height, you take less damage than you would if you just fell. The base DC to jump down from a height is 15. You do not have to get a running start to jump down, so the DC is not doubled if you do not get a running start.
If you succeed on the tjeck, you take falling damage as if you had dropped 10 fewer feet than you actually did. For every 5 points your check exceeds this DC by, your fall is treated as an additional 10 feet shorter. Thus a jump tjeck result of 20 reduces the damage you take as if your drop was 20’ shorter than it actually was, a jump tjeck result of 25 reduces damage as if your drop was 30’ shorter and so on. This reduction in damage is cumulative with any reduction in falling damage due to Tumble.

New uses for Jump:

Flying Tackle: A flying tackle is a manuver which allows you to exceed your normal maximum movement rate by jumping, but leaves you prone afterwards. You may make a flying tackle at the end of any move action (including movement used for a charge). Doing so is just like attempting a long jump, but the DC is increased by +10. If successful, you may add you long jump movement to your distance moved, and this distance does not count against your maximum movement in a round. Whether successful or not, you end up prone after attempting a flying tackle.

Slip the Surly Bonds of Earth: If you succeed at a DC 50 Jump tjeck (not doubled for not getting a running start), you may , as a move action, fly at good manuverability for a distance equal to your base speed. You may not begin any such flight movement if already airborne, and thus must land somewhere before attempting another such tjeck.

** Swim **
New Use for Swim:
Accelerated Swimming: You can attempt to swim more quickly than normal. By accepting a -5 penalty to your tjeck, you may move half your speed as a move action.
Special: A character with 5 or more ranks in Swim is never treated as Off Balance when fighting underwater. (See Table 3-22) A charcter with 10 or more ranks in Swim does not suffer the usual -2 attack penalty when attacking with a slashing or bludgeoning melee weapon underwater (but still suffers the reduced damage). A character with 15 or more ranks in Swim does not suffer any attack or damage penalties for melee attacks when fighting underwater (ranged attack penalties still apply normally).


** Tumble **
Changes and Extensions to existing DC table:
Tumble DC -- Task
15 -- Treat a fall as if it were 10 feet shorter for purposes of determining damage. For each additional 5 points by which you make this tjeck, you may treat the fall as if it were an additional 10’ shorter. This is cumulative with the Jumping Down use of the Jump Skill
30 -- Move 10’ using the “Take 5-Foot Step” miscellaneous action


Some observations from actual in-play experience with these rules:

Allowing Appraise to identify so easily makes the material component for Identify seem unfair to the party wizard.

The entire Craft system still needs to be rewritten. If the time it takes you to make an object is determined by the cost of the object, then the money/value you can make via craft needs to scale quadratically with skill, not linearly. And it needs to start slightly higher. In my game this has been particularily evident as it relates to PC trap construction and I am in the midst of writing a whole subsection of houserules just for trap creation, even though these houserules will not mesh with the overall Craft rules.

The wuxia-inspired Balance, Climb, Jump and Tumble rules have not really been used, but the campaign is still only 4-5th level


"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
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Josh_Kablack
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Re: Prodigal Skill Use

Post by Josh_Kablack »

Oberoni at [unixtime wrote:1086669648[/unixtime]]

Appraise: -snip-
A character with 11 or more ranks can make an Appraise roll instead with an opponent's armor as the target (this is also a move action). The DC is 11+the enhancement bonus on the armor. For every 3 numbers by which you beat the DC, the character may treat his opponent's armor bonus as one less for the rest of the combat.


Neat idea, really cumbersome system for implementation. There has got to be a more mechanically simple way to implement that.


Bluff: A character with 9 or more ranks in Bluff may make 2 saves instead of one against any effect which can discern the truth, or prevent lies, that targets him. Each of these saves is made with a +2 competence bonus. The character uses the better of the two saves.


Again, overly cumbersome. Just give a bonus which increases by 1 with every additional X ranks in Bluff. Remember that statistically a reroll on a d20 roll is worth between a +1 and a +5, depending on what the target number is with an average of about +2.5


Climb: A character with 12 ranks in Climb may always act as if under the effect of spider climb and the psionic feat Up the Walls.


Maybe it's because I'm looking in the Obsolete Psionics Handbook, but I really don't understand how being under the effects of both of those works. You have a climb speed, but have to end your move on a horizontal surface..? :confused:


Concentration: A character with 12 or more ranks in Concentration can focus on remaining conscious despite overwhelming pain. He gains Diehard as a bonus feat.


Personally I don't think that skill ranks should give out bonus feats. It would be better to have the skill grant a similar, but cumulative effect.


Craft: Man, this skill sucks. How about...a character with 7 or more ranks in Craft can do one week's work in that craft in one day instead.


Now it would still suck, but a 3rd level dwarven master smith could make 100 gp a week smithing instead of just 14. Note that at 7x effectiveness it would take this 3rd level dwarven master smith a week to forge a masterwork dwarven waraxe and over a month to forge a suit of masterwork platemail. I propose that after a point Craft should work just like Item Creation feats and the crafting time should be 1 day per 1,000 gp of the item, and not the 150 gp/week or less that the current system uses.


Decipher Script: A master at deciphering script can visualize spoken words quickly in his head, and draw upon his experiences to decipher them quickly. A character with 9 or more ranks in Decipher Script can use Comprehend Languages as a spell-like ability at will. A character wtih 14 or more ranks in Decipher Script can use Tongues as a spell-like ability at will.


Hrm. This is interesting, but grossly effects game style. If you're all for a Dr. Who / cheesey action movie game where everyone speaks BBC english it's pretty cool, if you're a Tolkien fanatic who deals in invented grammars it's world busting. Would be an in an option rules sidebar in the PHB I wrote.


Diplomacy: A character with 12 ranks in Diplomacy can spend a standard action in combat to use his wordsmithing skills to inspire his allies. He may make a Diplomacy check with a DC of 15; for every 3 numbers he beats the DC by, he and all allies get a +1 morale bonus to attack and damage rolls for the rest of that combat. (So a roll of 18 would grant a +1 morale bonus, a roll of 21 would grant a +2 morale bonus, etc.)


This should be capped based on ranks, and possibly just have an effect based ranks. As written it lets players convert obscure stackable skill bonuses into combat bonuses for the whole party. I can get a 13th level Bard with a Diplomancy tjeck of over +50 with less than 2 minutes of min/maxing. (Half elf +2, 24 Charisma +7, 16 ranks, Improvisation +26, Skill Focus +3) and +15 or more to all allies attack and damage for the whole combat is kinda out of scale for 13th level.


Disable Device: A character with 12 ranks in Disable Device can deliver a touch attack to a Construct. The Construct must make a Fortitude save (DC 10+1/2 HD of the character+Charisma modifier) or be destroyed instantly. Even if the Construct makes the save, it still takes 5d6 points of damage.
A character with 15 ranks in Disable Device can actually pull apart the various patterns that fuel magic. He may make a Disable Device roll against any magical effect with a duration (even one of Permanent), opposed by a Spellcraft roll from the caster of the effect. If he wins the roll, the effect ends. He may only use this ability once per day per effect.


I'm curious why Charisma for the first effect?

And the second effect should merely have a DC based on the effect's caster level. Not all magic effects are genereted by characters with known spellcraft scores, many effects come from items or are placed by wizards whose stats won't be written until before next session.


Disguise: A character with 12 or more ranks in Disguise gains Alter Self as a spell-like ability.
A character with 18 or more ranks gains Polymorph (self only) as a spell-like ability.


If the rules for Polymorph or Alter Self made any sense whatsoever, I'd probably like this idea.


Escape Artist: A character with 12 or more ranks in Escape Artist gains Freedom of Movement as a spell-like ability.


Usable how often? At what caster level? Does it come back if dispelled (ala Spider Eaters)?


Forgery: Oh, gosh. I dunno. A character with 12 ranks in Forgery gains Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat. In addition, the character may at any time choose any spell he has seen, even a spell not on his spell list (if he even has a spell list). From that point on, he may scribe scrolls of that spell, following the standard rules for scribing scrolls, except he may use his HD as his caster level if he so wishes. Only one spell may be chosen in this fashion. For every 3 skill ranks above 12, he may repeat this process with one additional spell.


So for every 3 ranks he has, he gets one "spell known" for purposes of scribing only. Interesting, but you should couple it with a matching ability on Decipher Script that would allow a character to read scrolls, otherwise you could end up with a character scribing a bunch of scrolls which he can't use.


Gather Information: A character with 15 or more ranks in Gather Information gains Legend Lore as a spell-like ability. It takes as long to use the ability as it would to cast the spell.


Sweet. Legend Lore kinda sucks any more though, what with the new Identify and vision doing the same thing in a fraction of the time.


Handle Animal: A character with 8 or more ranks in Handle Animal gains Speak with Animals as a spell-like ability. A character with 11 or more ranks in Speak with Animals gains Charm Animal as a spell-like ability. A character with 14 or more ranks in Handle Animal gains Dominate Animal as a spell-like ability. A character with 17 or more ranks in Handle Animal may as a move action make a Handle Animal check to sever the bond between one creature and a creature bonded to it (such as a wizard's familiar, druid's animal companion, paladin's mount, etc.) This is a supernatural ability with a close range and a duration of 1 hour/level duration; a Will save equal to the character's Handle Animal check negates. When the bond is severed, the bonded creature is treated as a regular creature of its type, and loses any special abilities from being a bonded creature. Likewise, the creature to which the bonded creature was bonded loses any benefits the bond may have granted. This last ability is a supernatural ability.


Neat ideas.
Uses per day on these? The loss of bonded creature ability could get confusing, as could the animal, no wait magical beast, no wait animal type issues for familiars and such. Plus then you have improved familars of non-animal types.


Heal: A character with 7 or more ranks in Heal may spend one hour with one creature before that creature gets 8 hours of rest. The character makes a Heal check. In addition to the normal healing the creature might otherwise get for one full night of rest, it also recovers HP equal to the heal check made.
A character with 10 or more ranks in Heal may treat any number of creatures in the same one-hour period, instead of just one creature.


Hrm. Maybe do these as a function of the patient's hit dice, as normal healing is. or mayhap not.


Hide: A character with 10 or more ranks in Hide may use invisibililty as a spell-like ability. A character with 15 or more ranks in Hide may use improved invisibility as a spell-like ability.


Uses per day? Caster level? Activation time?


Intimidate: A character with 12 ranks in Intimidate can spend a standard action in combat scare the crap out of his enemies. He may make an Intimidate check with a DC of 12; for every 3 numbers he beats the DC by, all enemies get a -1 morale penaltyto attack and damage rolls for the rest of that combat (So a roll of 18 would grant a -1 morale penalty, a roll of 21 would grant a -2 morale penalty, etc.). This is a supernatural, mind-affecting ability.


Use time? Caster Level - this is Su with a duration and therefore subject to Dispel ? And again, base it off ranks, not total to avoid the guy weaseling his one skill tjeck up to +70 or so.


Jump: A character with 10 ranks in Jump gains a version of the Pounce extraordinary ability; he may make a full attack at the end of a charge action.
A character with 15 ranks in Jump gains a flight speed equal to the speed of his most commonly used movement rate. This is a supernatural ability.


Manueverability class of flight?


Listen: A character with 12 or more ranks in Listen gains Blindsight out to 30 feet. This is negated by any effect that completely negates sound.


Blindsight or just Blindsense? Shouldn't one be granted before the other?


Move Silently: A character with 12 or more ranks in Move Silently may use Silence as a spell-like ability. Unlike the regular version of Silence, this only effects the character (and wherever he's stepping), meaning that he makes no noise under any circumstances. This is dismissable as a free action.


Wording unclear about whether this prevents him from being subject to effects dependant on his hearing of them, such as Bardic Music and Language-Dependant effects.

Should also mention that the character's equipment is silent.


Open Lock: You know, this skill really should be part of Disable Device. Anyways, a character with 12 ranks in Open Lock can actually pry open space itself; he may use the ability Dimension Door exactly as a Blink Dog does. A character with 15 ranks can Teleport as a spell-like ability. A character with 18 ranks can Plane Shift as a spell-like ability.


Yow. That's pretty durn strong. I hope you weren't counting on the foci to control Plane Shift in your game.


Perform: This has the same Prodigal use as Diplomacy. Hey, the only reason you're even dropping points into this is because you're a Bard, so you already get a crapload of special abilities from your skill. So there.


not true, I've seen rogues and one cleric with perform ranks. Of course I've never seen a non-bard with more than 4 ranks in Perform.

Anyway, same objection as Diplomancy.

Should probably grant an oddball synergy bonuses 5 ranks


Profession: Um...a character with 7 or more ranks in Profession may perform one week's worth of work in one day.


Still needs to scale quadratically.


Ride: This has the same Prodigal use as Diplomacy, but with two exceptions: It only effects your mount, and it is a free action.


Same objection.


Search: A character with 10 or more ranks in Search gains the rogue's Trapfinding ability. A character that would already otherwise have this ability gains a +3 competence bonuse to finding traps.
A character with 12 or more ranks in Search may spend a full-round action searching a 10-foot-by-10-foot area, or a volume of goods 10 feet on a side.


Probably stick the elven secret door finding ability in there and consider auto-granting some of the 1st and 2nd level Detect Blah Blah Blah spells.


Sense Motive: A character with 10 or more ranks in Sense Motive may use Discern Lies as a spell-like ability.


This should be defeatable by a character with sufficient ranks in Bluff. Caster level? Use limit? Activation time?


Sleight of Hand: A character with 12 or more ranks in Sleight of Hand may make a skill check to take a spell that has a duration and is on another creature. The character removes the spell from the other creature and may place it on himself if desired. If the character has no idea what spell he's trying to steal, he removes one randomly. This is a supernatural ability.


Neat idea.

Horrible potential consequences. Can get spells on invalid targets, can ruin spells supposedly balanced by self only range limitation, choices about spell's effects ambigious. Think about how this interacts with Magic Jar and spells which are have a (D) duration.


Spellcraft: A character with 12 or more ranks in Spellcraft may detect the subtle magical ripples in the mere moments before a teleportation effect is used to enter any area within the character's line of sight. He is not surprised by any creatures that enter via the area via that teleportation effect, and may warn his companions so that they are not surprised either.
A character with 15 or more ranks in Spellcraft and the ability to Quicken a spell may, as a free action, use up the a quickened spell (as if it had been cast) to add an additional penalty to the afore-mentioned teleportation effect; any creature entering the area through the teleportation effect is stunned for 1 round per level of the spell used by the character.


The only problem I see is that not all teleportation effects are tagged as such - Transport vis Plants and such defeat this. That and smart wizards will teleport in with construct and undead bodyguards to ignore the stun.


Spot: A character with 12 or more ranks in Spot acts as if under the effects of See Invisibility.


No problems there. I'd specify that it's (Ex) just to be clear that it's not dispellable.


Survival: A character with 7 or more ranks in Survival gains resistance to all energy attacks equal to his ranks in Survival.
A character with 12 or more ranks in Survival gains Diehard as a bonus feat.


What's an energy attack? Do light, divine power, impact and holy count or not?

Should this really scale 1 to 1 with skill ranks for all energy types or should it be fractional?

And you sure do like Diehard, a character could purchase it normally and then get it as a bonus feat two different ways with your skill set here.


Swim: A character with 7 or more ranks in Swim gains a Swim speed equal to his most commonly-used movement rate. A character with 10 or more ranks in Swim can breathe underwater.


I see a small rules-lawyer issue with "most commonly used movement", but only a small one.


Tumble: A character with 12 or more ranks in Tumble may perform an additional 5-foot step each round. This may be performed at any time, even during another creature's attack action. If this is used to avoid a melee or ranged attack, the character must make a Tumble check as if he is trying to use Tumble to avoid an attack of opportunity; success means that the attack is avoided.


The avoid an AoO DC is probably too low for what you are proposing. I'd drop the whole out of turn movement thing and just grant a second 5' step complete with the 5' step's immunity to AoO and so forth.


Use Magic Device: A character with 9 or more ranks in Use Magic Device may cast spells as a 1st level caster in a class of his choice. For every 2 additional ranks in Use Magic Device, he gains an additional bonus caster level. Thus, a character with 13 ranks in Use Magic Device may choose to cast spells as a 3rd level spellcaster of his choice.


Personally I'd have this start at 12 ranks instead of 9. Caster levels 8 levels behind your current level are demonstrably worthless, caster levels 6 levels behind are just low valued.

What about wizard specialization here?

The CHA based nature of UMD will also lead to this option being used mainly for bard and sorcerer spells.


Use Rope: A master of Use Rope learns to tap into the primal binding and restricting forces of the universe. Kinky. A character with 12 or more ranks in Use Rope. gains Hold Monster as a spell-like ability. Unlike the spell, this ability does not possess the Mind-Affecting descriptor. A length of rope is required as a focus for this ability.


Caster level? Save DC? Use Limit? Activation Type? why not just use the Entangled or Grappled status ailment? I'd be strongly inclined to do this as a ranged Grapple with the skill tjeck in place of the usual grapple tjeck and the rope, rather than the character taking the damage from counter attacks.
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Re: Prodigal Skill Use

Post by Essence »

Josh wrote:
Heal patient a full day's worth of natural healing to HP or ability scores as a standard action: DC 35 (counts against normal daily natural healing)
Heal patient of HP or ability score damage as if he had undergone 24 hours of bedrest in one round: DC 45 (counts against normal daily natural healing)


Why does the DC increase if the time required to heal also increases? Is the first entry supposed to read "one minute", and the second "one round"? If so, is there supposed to be a third entry for "one standard action"?


Josh wrote:Caster levels 8 levels behind your current level are demonstrably worthless, caster levels 6 levels behind are just low valued.


Can you demonstrate? :) Why is it worthless to cast 1st level spells at 9th level, but not at 7th?
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Re: Prodigal Skill Use

Post by Username17 »

Josh wrote:Allowing Appraise to identify so easily makes the material component for Identify seem unfair to the party wizard.


Have they ever dealt with a Magic Domain Cleric? How does the cleric casting exactly the same spell with no material component feel?

Have you tried just not having material components? I haven't seen them do anything except annoy the crap out of people ever.

The wuxia-inspired Balance, Climb, Jump and Tumble rules have not really been used, but the campaign is still only 4-5th level


I wouldn't really expect them to, the DCs on those things are way too high relative to magical effects. Levitate is a 2nd level spell, and it takes a 65 to walk around on a roiling fog bank. That's ricockulous. Levitate is even better than balancing like that.

Neat idea, really cumbersome system for implementation. There has got to be a more mechanically simple way to implement that.


Appraise: If you have 11 or more ranks, your opponents claim no bonus from enhancement bonuses to their armor class bonuses. The net effect is pretty much exactly the same. What are the odds of an 8th level character with maximum Appraise failing to hit the DC 20 required to shut off the +3 bonus of even powerful armor? What about their chances of beating the 14 they need for normal magical encountered goods at that level?

and +15 or more to all allies attack and damage for the whole combat is kinda out of scale for 13th level.


Well, not as long as you can chain polymorph, but point taken.

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Re: Prodigal Skill Use

Post by User3 »

Basically, you want to give more feats to 1st level characters. So why not just do that?

You see, a 1st level human peasant can have an 18 stat, a hook-up feat, and skill focus for a +13(+11 for a cross class) to a roll, compared to a 9th level adventurer guy who has a +12 from just his maxed out skill bonus and his +0 stat bonus.

Really, do we need more abilities to keep track of? Even if you want these to be "abilities for high level guys," why not just arbitrarily give them as feats to all high level guys, because that's what you are doing. Everyone has maxxed out skills, unless they decide that they don't want a skill to do more than an X amount of stuff. You are essentially giving everyone of a certain level a bunch of extra magical abilities, like a Dark Sun campaign with psionics.

You are also powering up rogues, who in my mind have always been well balanced as a class.

-----------------------

On that note, I have always favored an "Exotic Use" feat that applies to a skill. This covers crap like Knowledge Religon and BOVD demon summoning, or stuff like that. The Control Shape skill should be an Exotic Use of Concentration, and other weird applications of skills, like combat bluffing, should be an Exotic Use of Bluff.
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Re: Prodigal Skill Use

Post by Username17 »

Really, do we need more abilities to keep track of?


Gosh, you're right. I guess Half Orcs really would be worse if they had abilties, because that would just be more stuff to keep track of.

The argument that underpowered stuff is OK because we don't want to have to keep track of enough goodies to make an option palatable is garbage.

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Re: Prodigal Skill Use

Post by User3 »

So, having newly leveled 9th level rogues write down 8-14 new abilities is a good idea? That's the number of their skills that are going to reach rank 12.

Really, you are giving everyone a whole list of exactly the same abilities. Thats dull, and gives nothing to individual characters.

If you want to move to a skill based game, where skills and the huge number of ways to maniplate skill rolls takes over for class abilities, then you have completely abandoned the level system.

You might as well play some other game, and stop pretending you were writing rules for DnD.
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Re: Prodigal Skill Use

Post by Oberoni »

K, I don't know why non-primary casters have to get boned out of having fantastic abilities at high levels. Rewarding people for high skill ranks (especially in the crappy skills) is a good way to fix that issue.


K's Choice wrote:Really, you are giving everyone a whole list of exactly the same abilities. Thats dull, and gives nothing to individual characters.


There's over 35 skills in the PHB. Your statement makes no sense whatsoever. Furthermore, in a class-based system, you've already accepted that it's ok to give everyone the same abilities. In a class-based system, it's considered ok for characters of similar leans (for example, two characters that are each Rogue 9s) to look very similar and have very similar abilities. So, not only ins your statement incorrect, even if it were true, it doesn't gel with a class-based system.


Kster wrote:Basically, you want to give more feats to 1st level characters. So why not just do that?


What are you basing this on?

Everyone else, I like the feedback on the particulars of the system so far, and I'll keep tweaking it from time to time. Josh, even though it was there before your inquiry, I've got a paragraph near the beginning of the opening post that describes the "default" specifications of each ability.
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Re: Prodigal Skill Use

Post by User3 »

Fantastic abilities should be based off of PC class abilities, or maybe feats with PC level limitations.

Basing if off of skills means that commoners and monsters will have these abilities too.

Then you are playing Dragonball Z, and wondering why everyone and eveything past a certain level flies.

That's dumb.

---------------

Basing it off of min. skill ranks means that once the whole party reaches a certain level, they will each gain 1-14 new abilities (depending on Int and classes) as good as spells cast per day, and they can be used at will.

That's dumb.

--------------
Not basing it off of ranks means that by getting feats, high stats, and other bonuses you will get guys who as first level commoners can make those checks.

That's dumb.

Even a commoner that flies 1 out of 20 times he tries to fly is just too much flying.

------------

Give high level abilities to high level guys. Not to other people.
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Re: Prodigal Skill Use

Post by Josh_Kablack »

Essence at [unixtime wrote:1086704114[/unixtime]]
Josh wrote:
Heal patient a full day's worth of natural healing to HP or ability scores as a standard action: DC 35 (counts against normal daily natural healing)
Heal patient of HP or ability score damage as if he had undergone 24 hours of bedrest in one round: DC 45 (counts against normal daily natural healing)


Why does the DC increase if the time required to heal also increases? Is the first entry supposed to read "one minute", and the second "one round"? If so, is there supposed to be a third entry for "one standard action"?


Okay, those should both be the same usetime, but the DC increases because the effect increases.



Josh wrote:Caster levels 8 levels behind your current level are demonstrably worthless, caster levels 6 levels behind are just low valued.


Can you demonstrate? :) Why is it worthless to cast 1st level spells at 9th level, but not at 7th?


Because a 9th level fighter gets 0 xp for killing a 1st level sorcerer. Now claiming that spellcaster levels are worthless is a bit of hyperbole on my part - stackable buffs and unique movement or detection modes never go out of style, no matter how far behind the curve they are.

Oberoni wrote:
, even though it was there before your inquiry, I've got a paragraph near the beginning of the opening post that describes the "default" specifications of each ability.


That'll teach me to try to meaningfully critique stuff at 4 am :blush:
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Re: Prodigal Skill Use

Post by Josh_Kablack »

And as to the global "Why do this", the answer is pretty simple:

This is a FANTASY game. Currently a number of skills are limited to acheveing highly realistic results wheras many feats, spells and class features are capable of acheiving results far beyone what is realistically possible. Thus if skills are to be a valueable feature of a class and not just roleplaying background material, they need to have fantastic uses as well.

These are crazy houserules, if you don't like the concept, then don't use it in your games.
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Re: Prodigal Skill Use

Post by Username17 »

Remember: many commoners happen to be Aarakokra (sp.?) or Avariel (sp.?) and just plain fly all the time. In the fantasy genre, the fact that some commoner can just fly sometimes (or all the time) is simply no big deal.

While D&D is often portrayed as a low-magic world with magical effects being the occassional wonder - and nerftastic DMs often inflict such on characters - that's really not what's being represented at all. Anybody can just be a magician. Seriously, magic is a skill anybody can pick up, it's apparently not that hard to come by.

Wizards are able to do literally dozens of magical effects every day, each of which is more reliable than turning on a lightswitch, and each of which is further capable of levelling a house or blotting out the sun.

People doing crazy stuff in such an environment just doesn't bother me from a role playing point of view. It's a world in which some of your commoners breathe fire because they happen to be of a lineage where all the townsfolk breathe fire. Having some blacksmith learn how to breathe fire seems only fair.

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Re: Prodigal Skill Use

Post by Oberoni »

It also bears mentioning that if you're using 12-level commoners as some sort of proof that my system is flawed, I'm probably not actually concerned about what you're saying.

"Did you consider the effect 12th level commoners have on your system?" Um, no, I'm really sure I'm not going to worry about them.
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Re: Prodigal Skill Use

Post by Oberoni »

Also, Josh, to be fair, the paragraph describing the "defaults" on the abilities was smaller before your comment. Perhaps too stealthy. And when you mentioned it, I did improve the paragraph a bit. :)
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Re: Prodigal Skill Use

Post by Username17 »

Note: a 12th level human commoner is somehow a CR 11 creature, and is therefore somehow supposed to be at least four times as amazing as a hill giant. Or about as amazing as a 3rd level Succubus commoner.

So if the 12th level commoner is so awesome that sometimes he can get super pissed and summon a balrog - that's only to be expected based on his supposed power level.

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Re: Prodigal Skill Use

Post by Oberoni »

So, given some of the abilities I've listed so far, does anyone have any suggested levels they should be obtainable at?

A whole ton of them kick in at level 9. I would imagine that they're not all "just right" for level 9 characters to grab; I bet some of them could be tweaked up and down for more variety.

In particular, I wouldn't mind some of them being accessable to even characters that are cross-classing the skills. This would be in the mid-teens, level-wise, but that's ok.
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Re: Prodigal Skill Use

Post by Username17 »

A note on multiclassing characters and skill point expenditure:

A multiclass character (such as a Rogue/Fighter) is going to have different skill lists for different classes. This means that more than likely, they will end up in a situation of level alteration, where the character goes up in (for example) Fighter one level, raising class skills by 2 or more points and leaving the other class skills alone, and then going up in the other class (for example: Rogue) and spend points in class there to catch up in the skills sleighted on the previous level.

The net result of this, of course, is that in the long run you don't end up wasting skill points on cross classing and a flat superior character than if you tried to keep up your skills all the time.

If, however, all of the skill abilities don't come in on the same level(s), there is going to be a right order and a wrong order to level your character. The right order is to advance the class whose skills grant abilties earlier, and then advance the class whose skills grant abilities later after that - and you end up getting all the abilities at the lowest possible level.

The other option - where you take levels in the opposite order - is simply going to either involve you permanently losing skill points to cross class penalties or gaining all of the abilities at a later character level.

Of course, you might want to simply expand the idea of in-class skills to include everything that was ever a class skill for you. That would solve this and several other problems. Of course, you might not want to do that, depending on what you think specifically advancing your Rogue or Fighter level means as a Rogue/Fighter.

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Re: Prodigal Skill Use

Post by User3 »

For the craft skills...

Personally I'd say the appraise bonus to breaching armor should be a craft (armorer) check. It'd make more sense. you know how to make armor well, so you know the weak spots. As opposed to a guy who just knows how much the armor is worth.

Also I'd say craft (weaponsmith) should give you a bonus to sundering weapons.

Also why not allow high craft ranks to allow you to produce stuff above master work quality that is tougher to sunder. Like at rank 12 after that all your masterwork items have more hardness and hit points. It'd actually get people seeking out the most skilled smith in the land when they want to create a magic sword, because it'll actually stack wtih all the other hardness/hp bonuses.

You could even allow these greater masterwork weapons masterwork bonus to stack with the magical bonus, so it grants a +1 attack bonus ontop of the normal enhancement bonus from magic. And perhaps the armor has a higher max dex bonus and lower arcane spell failure. It'd make having your armor made by a talented smith actually mean something.
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Re: Prodigal Skill Use

Post by Sma »

While it is open to abuse from skill enhancing items, I´m partial to Josh´s DC based system. It keeps the ability form being an automatic success, which could be an issue with some of them.

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Re: Prodigal Skill Use

Post by User3 »

NPC levels are worth half, as per the MM 3.5.

So a 12th level Commoner is CR 6.
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Re: Prodigal Skill Use

Post by Maj »

Ess, when faced with an opportunity to make changes to his universe, often turns them into a story arc so the players have the ultimate control in what they'd like to see, and so there's an explanation for tweaks to the rules.

So last night, my character (a deity), went to this meeting where gods way more powerful than she (she was largely there to provide the decorations and food) decided that everything that could be done had been done, and now it was time for the universe to change a little.

Some of the things determined at the meeting:

  • There should be some abilities that are a little more difficult than others. There should always be something to strive for.
  • Commoners should not fly.
  • Gods shouldn't have the monopoly on special abilities. If they did, they'd get lazy.
  • You shouldn't have the ability to emulate spells, but abilities being magical is OK (the thought behind this is that if you get good enough at Opening Locks to Plane Shift, you've wasted your time. You should have just been a wizard to begin with, cast Knock whenever you needed to get something open, and eventually learned Plane Shift anyway).
  • Abilities shouldn't be limited to a specific race or occupation.
  • Perhaps synergistic abilities ought to have a special use once you are adequately proficient in both skills that you cannot get by using each skill individually.
  • The man who invented Prestidigitation deserved to be deified for it, though it would drastically upset the economy if you allow everyone to cast it.


So thank you, Oberoni, for the good ideas, and the latest in-game story line. Trying to debate this question in character really brings up a lot of things that I don't think about as a player.

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