Ben 10, Polymorph, Class Balance and Race & Party Roles

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Prak
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Ben 10, Polymorph, Class Balance and Race & Party Roles

Post by Prak »

Ben 10(the cartoon, and now the live action show) strikes me as an example of how D&D should work.... The Omnitrix allows Ben to take the form of a generic member of any of a number of alien races, with salient minor qualities, such as hair/eye color, hair growth patterns, gender, etc, determined by his own DNA. Basically, it's character replacement, except even in the most extreme transformations, such as Wild Mutt and Grey Matter, the new character still has the old character's personality and memories, etc.
Not only does the polymorphing function as character replacement, Ben isn't allowed to cherry pick from every creature in the universe, just those in the Omnitrix that he's unlocked. For example, when he first gets the Omnitrix he has ten forms to pick from, each with a pretty specific role:

-Diamond Head: Combat, (mostly projectile attacks, but also great AC, skin supposedly diamond hard.)
-Four Arms: Combat, (Brute force, Melee)
-Ghost Freak: Sneak, (Incorporeal, Invisible, he's a ghost, let's leave it at that)
-Grey Matter: Evasion, Brain Storming (Hyper Intelligent, Small. Often McGuyvers up gadgets and traps, and being about 5" tall, easy to miss.)
-Heat Blast: Blaster. (essentially pyrokinetic)
-Ripjaws: Aquatic Combat.
-Stinkfly: Aerial Combat.
-Upgrade: Evasion, Device-User (essentially a swarm of nanites, he's damn hard to injure, and he can meld with and control devices)
-Wild Mutt: Mobility, some combat, tracking. (Big blind beast. Has thermographic sensing capability, as well as superb sight and smell. Also runs, jumps, climbs, etc.)
-XLR8: Speed. That's pretty much it's purpose.

So, no dumpster diving for creatures with broken spell likes, just going through a small list of creatures, each with it's own purpose.
Further forms are essentially handed out by the proverbial DM of the story. So far Ben has unlocked an additional 10 aliens, and supposedly there are 10,000 to be unlocked, according to the requisite time travel episode. It seems that forms are unlocked when one of two things happens, one: the Omnitrix malfunctions and gives Ben a new form instead of the one he wanted (it seems to be a damned unstable device, as he seldom gets the form he wants, usually he dials in one form, and another that's about the furthest from what he could want is what he gets, and probably one time out of ten or so, this results in a new form.) or two: Ben encounters the new alien up close and personally. For Example: Ben tries to assume Stink Fly's form for arial combat, but instead unlock's Ditto's form. Example 2: Ben is fighting a Loboan(alien werewolf) and the omnitrix is scratched, unlocking the Benwolf form.
However, not every alien Ben encounter's unlocks a new form. He encounters Xylene, a psychokinetic lizard-woman, but does not obtain such a form. This basically presents an out for DMs who think a specific monster would unbalance things. If, for example, the Wizard has just been hit by a Red Dragon, the DM is entirely free to say "Nope, your polymorph amulet doesn't have Red Dragon Essence" or "Nope, sorry, Copy Essence doesn't work on the Red Dragon."

As for class balance, Ben seems to have class built around unlocking aliens from the Omnitrix, as opposed to raging, casting spells, or hitting people in the balls with small weapons. This seems completely balanced with Gwen who is the series' resident gish, which she literally is, she opens a book and spouts off incantations, and also has martial arts training. These are presumably balanced with Grandpa Max's class "Plumber" (essentially MiB, except "plumber" raises a fuck-ton less eyebrows than "Man in Black"), although he is probably level 15 or so, but he really doesn't do much. As the Ex-plumber, Max is the show's sage and mundane, if backed up by high tech and training, combatant. Max usually know's what's going on at any given point by virtue of his "Plumber Knowledge" ability, even if he's a bit reluctant to let his grandchildren know.

The show's classes are essentially built around Items of Power (The Omnitrix, the spellbook) or skill(martial arts, being an ex-soldier and ex-plumber). This probably would make class balance alot easier, while at the same time, alot more difficult. Using Ben 10 as a game style, you could allow players to design their own items of power, and then just hand a single class out to the "Magic Pants" chararacters, while allowing the mundane characters access to high base attack bonus, special training, knowledge, and mundane, if highly advanced, technology. The difficulty comes in when you try to space out the powers of the Magic Pants characters' Items.

Each character fulfills one or more of the standard class roles. Ben tends to fulfil the martial role with his various forms, but also has something to do outside of combat, or at least as much as a fighter usually does. Gwen seems to be both a Magic-User and a Monk, and thus fulfils both the magic-using role, and is a supporting fighter. Max essentially fills the role of the Skill monkey through advanced tech and specialized knowledge, which in D&D could be a class built around magic items and worldly knowledge that are essentially trivial and expendable, or, a bard, as opposed to Ben and Gwen's Items of Power.
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Re: Ben 10, Polymorph, Class Balance and Race & Party Roles

Post by Maxus »

Interesting point. I'm not a fan of the series, but as far as I can tell, it functions as you say it does. And as for polymorph functioning like that...

Yeah, that sounds playable. Being able to say, "You have x-number of forms. Choose them carefully. And, no, you can't have dragon. Unless it's a Wyrmling" is an infinite improvement over, "Here, my good man, pillage all the monster manuals you'd like for cool/broken stuff, because I'm an idiot DM who shall surely regret how difficult you're going to make planning challenging encounters for this party :D"
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.

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Re: Ben 10, Polymorph, Class Balance and Race & Party Roles

Post by Username17 »

A prerequisite for this plan would be to write a series of monsters which were intended to be used as forms for polymorphing. So long as Phoenix and Zodar are theoretically available, the game will be nbalanced even if your game isn't (because none of the characters happen to have Phoenix or Zodar forms yet).

Once you've done that, you don't really need to worry about form limitations - it would be more for flavor. So long as everything available to be transformed into is roughly balanced it doesn't really matter what system you have for doling out the forms to any particular player.

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Re: Ben 10, Polymorph, Class Balance and Race & Party Roles

Post by K »

The shapeshifters of fiction always looked like this in my "translate-into-game-mechanics-mind-eye":

You are X level, and have HPs and suchlike based on that level. You have a number of abilities, and to use those abilities, you need to change form. For example, to use your flying ability you turn into something with wings, and to use your Flame blasts you turn into a Lava Dude.

At the end of the day, you are probably doing the exact same amount of damage with your Flame Blasts as you'd do with you Rake attack when you were a flying bird, except as a bird you were flying and were able to avoid the spiky floor and as a Lava dude you were immune to fire and didn't care that the building was on fire.
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Re: Ben 10, Polymorph, Class Balance and Race & Party Roles

Post by Desdan_Mervolam »

The problem with this idea seems to me that, from what I've seen, Ben does most of the heavy lifting in his "party". He's got forms to be ranged combat, scouting, stealth, and all sorts of other things. Using this paradigm, why bother playing anything else, since you can decide your role in the party at your whim to the needs of the situation? Why play a straight fighter when you can be a fighter OR a rogue OR a ranged combat character, or whatever else? Ben10's system works when as far as the meat of the adventure goes you can't rely on the other people in your party to nessissarily have your back, but if you're supposed to be part of a party that works together, then having a class whose schitch is "Anything you can do, I can do just as good" is kinda ass.

Also, there are alot of people who would balk on a class balanced on "Sometimes I get to pick your form for you".

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Re: Ben 10, Polymorph, Class Balance and Race & Party Roles

Post by Voss »

Well, most of the problem you're talking about comes from it being a scripted show rather than a game. Despite his cousin and grandfather being more interesting characters, the show is about the brat growing up and becoming a hero. If the other two are doing an equal share, it isn't about that any more.

You wouldn't really run a game that way, and from what I've seen of the show, the other two are actually more capable than Ben is, but are toned down by the writing (main character thing again). Their abilities certainly don't crap out on them when its Moral Lesson Anvil time. Nor are their abilities on a timer, no matter how arbitrary it is in the show, which would be a big weakness of Ben's 'class'
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Re: Ben 10, Polymorph, Class Balance and Race & Party Roles

Post by CalibronXXX »

Gwen and Gramps could indeed be easily powered up to Ben's level. Gwen's magic and almost black belt level fighting abilities already will leave her fairly equal in combat with Ben in most cases, maybe she could use a physical buff or two to cut down on her vulnerability. Gramps has been shown to bust out some pretty heavy artillery on a number of occasions, is able to beat a trained guard in full armor and wielding an energy sword unarmed and unprotected, and really got to show off his stuff during the episode about the ancient Mayan sword; I think he'd easily match the two kids with an upgraded plumber suit, something like a toned down version of the bat suit in Batman Beyond.
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Re: Ben 10, Polymorph, Class Balance and Race & Party Roles

Post by Prak »

Yeah, like Voss said, Ben's got the special ability "Main Character". It's the same ability that let's Iron man actually have his own comic when I've only ever seen him get his ass saved by Warmachine. Really Ben can totally decide his own role, and because so much of the adventure is combat oriented, that's really fine. His only real non-combat form is Grey Matter, and even that has combat applications, they're just more along the lines of "build superweapon I can use after my polymorph times out" instead of "attempt to clobber the infinitely more experienced incorporeal BBEG". Max can beat the shit out of 15' tall aliens and tell the kids what the hell is going on in any given situation, and solve the puzzles that require Knowledge: Aliens. Gwen can flip out and kick 15' foot tall aliens in the face, exert some pretty good battlefield control, and solve the puzzles that require patience and attention to detail. Ben can take on pretty much alien or genetic freak on it's own level, but really can't solve any puzzles that don't require Rube Goldberg machines or showboating and arrogance. Oh, he can also solve puzzles that involve being a total dick or moron....
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Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Re: Ben 10, Polymorph, Class Balance and Race & Party Roles

Post by Lago_AM3P »

Of course, the real question is why you would watch Ben 10 in the first place, let alone introduce elements of that show into your game.
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Prak
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Re: Ben 10, Polymorph, Class Balance and Race & Party Roles

Post by Prak »

because I like it as a mindless cartoon and sometimes it's the only thing on.


as to introducing elements of it, because they seem to work.
Cuz apparently I gotta break this down for you dense motherfuckers- I'm trans feminine nonbinary. My pronouns are they/them.
Winnah wrote:No, No. 'Prak' is actually a Thri Kreen impersonating a human and roleplaying himself as a D&D character. All hail our hidden insect overlords.
FrankTrollman wrote:In Soviet Russia, cosmic horror is the default state.

You should gain sanity for finding out that the problems of a region are because there are fucking monsters there.
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Re: Ben 10, Polymorph, Class Balance and Race & Party Roles

Post by JonSetanta »

pshh, instead go videogame, get online and read or watch YouTube, not TV. :P
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Re: Ben 10, Polymorph, Class Balance and Race & Party Roles

Post by Crissa »

Oh, yes, YouTube is filled with things superior to Ben 10. 9-9 Not.

Admittedly, YouTube is probably not any more expensive than cable TV, but for me, they're the same bill and I honestly don't care for YouTube. People uploading the same video that someone else uploaded isn't what I call fun.

Videogames cost more, reading free fiction isn't watching animation and not of better quality, so... Not sure what the point there is.

You going to complain about an Asteroids® based game concept next?

-Crissa
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