Upcoming Campaign Advice

[virgil]

I'm going to be trying out D&D again, this time as a player. It's actually been ages since I played normal D&D, I forget some of the non-silly aspects.

Any particular advice for me? I'd like to play a character that I can play to keep up with the party, with the option to lay down increasing levels of awesomeness as the situation warrants without having to delve into exceedingly complex maneuvers (the kind that can create massive rules-lawyer debates).

Here are the campaign's ground rules...
* Starting level 1
* 32 point buy
* PHB races
* Classes: Core PHB, Ninja, Scout, Spellthief, Favored Soul, Shugenja, Spirit Shaman, Wu Jen, Warmage, Hexblade, Samurai, Swashbuckler, Beguiler, Dragon Shaman
* Prestige Classes generally work as-is, but also require finding the organization/mentor to help introduce me to the class (so multiple PrC dipping will likely raise eyebrows with them)
* Non-PHB Feats Allowed: Almost all from PHBII, Cityscape, & Draconomicon, Miniatures Handbook, Stormwrack, Complete Arcane/Mage/Warrior/Divine/Adventurer, Frostburn, Libris Mortis, Races of Destiny/Stone/Wild

Setting Overview
* Start play in port town of the Empire, a land with an iron fist and rigid laws to go with it. Semi-theocracy with the Raven Queen as the giver of law (and thus life to its citizens). The port town is comparatively lawless because of the contact with the outside world, which seems to mean isn't a military breathing down our necks (and the officials might be bribe-able).
* We can be characters from outside the Empire, but information beyond its borders is on a need-to-know basis

Personal Observations
* The DM has delusions of this being an epic campaign, so I don't think he really understands what can happen with allowing such a romp through the books, and thus I suspect there would be DM penis waving if I make obvious gestures of dominating the party or trying to enter the Wish economy. I myself wouldn't mind being more powerful, but I need to be subtle about it, and I'm definitely going to have to talk to him regarding how he handles illusions.

[CalibronXXX]

If you want ridiculous power that may not be obvious at a glance on your character sheet then be a killer gnome wih residual metamagic. I assume you're aware of the basic Shadowcraft Mage/killer gnome concept so I'll just lay out a build. If you have any questions as to how exactly it works just ask.

Gnome

2 flaws

Wizard(Illusionist)
1st: Earth Sense, Heighten Spell, Earth Spell, Gnome Illusionist Substitution level
2nd:
3rd: Spell Focus(Illusion)
4th:
5th: Gnome Illusionist Substitution Level
Shadowcraft Mage
6th: Residual Metamagic
7th:
8th: Cast a 9th level spell out of a 4th level spell slot
9th: Arcane Disciple(Luck), Cast Miracle out of a 3rd, or 4th level spell slot
10th:
Wizard
11th:
12th: Easy Metamagic(Heighten Spell), Cast Miracle out of a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd level spell slot.
13th:
14th:
15th: Spell Mastery, Signature Spell(Silent Image), Spontaneously Cast Miracle out of a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 7th, or 8th level spell slot

If Flaws are not allowed

Gnome

Wizard(Illusionist)
1st: Earth Sense, Gnome Illusionist Substitution level
2nd:
3rd: Heighten Spell
4th:
5th: Spell Focus(Illusion)
6th: Earth Spell
Shadowcraft Mage
7th:
8th:
9th: Residual Metamagic, Cast a 9th level spell out of a 3rd, or 4th level spell slot
10th:
Wizard
11th:
12th: Arcane Disciple(Luck), Cast Miracle out of a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th level spell slot.
13th:
14th: Spell Mastery
15th: Signature Spell(Silent Image), Spontaneously Cast Miracle out of a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th level spell slot.

As you can see you don't even care about the wish economy because you can cast no-strings-attached Miracles before you can cast Planar Binding. You never even have to bring this super power to bear, because without you're still a full caster; even better you can bring this your super powers to bear and still not be called out for it, just do something a little more low key like cast a shadowy Summon Monster IX or Meteor Swarm.

[SunTzuWarmaster]

If I recall correctly, Air Gnome (Beguiler 6)/(Shadowcraft Mage 5)/(anyPrC 9) with the feats of Earth Sense, Earth Spell, Heighten Spell (1,3,6, qualifies early for 4th level spells) is a solid caster-build with a premade spell list (which is awesome even if it doesn't have Teleport).

If you don't go for this, straight Beguiler is a solid choice. Take Spell Focus(Illusion), Metamagic School Focus, Residual Magic. Simply be a full-casting Beguiler with an awesome skill list, and:
Invisibility (and hiding, you can't be seen)
Silence (you can't be heard. Period. Also, you can cast in the silence)
up to 6 Silent Illusion Spells per day at no cost.

Beguiler comes HIGHLY recommended.

[shirak]

I'll also recommend Beguiler. If at all possible, take Mindbender 1 as your sixth level. Then beg your DM to allow Mindsight from Calamari Cooking. For great justice!

Other fun options:

The Clericarcher! Make Elves hate you!
The Meelizard! Make Fighters hate you!
The Druid! Be arbitrarily good at everything!
The Two Weapon Rogue! Deal more damage than Frenzied Berserkers!

[Username17]

I suggest being a "wall mancer". You can do that as a Beguiler or a Wizard. If you just throw up terrain and impediments on enemies with all your actions you don't actually drop any opponents so it never seems like you're the one who is making the party win.

It's a great way to beat the game without hurting people's feelings.

-Username17

[cthulhu]

I'd highly recommend that sort of thing too. Spells like stinking cloud that can take out half the other teams combatants then let them get owned by the fighter types 1d4+1 rounds later is a great thing that is REALLY POWERFUL but you don't actually look that tough.

Beguiler is a great choice for a level 1+ romp as they are good at all times without making everyone else cry.

Sorcerer can work as well but level 3 is like acute physical pain.

Edit: Frank has posted a list of spells that kill people here before. While taking the ones that actually kill people ruins games, taking the ones that just make the bad guys cry while someone else does all the killing are good.

[virgil]

Man, I'm tempted by beguiler, but the limited spell list makes me pine for the idea of getting ahold of more spells. Granted, I'm uncertain what kind of downtime the DM will allow me to add enough spells to sate my thirst...

EDIT: What?! No Bestow Curse on their spell list? Screw this, I'll go wizard if I do arcane caster.

[MrWaeseL]

Are core classes allowed? -> yes -> Be a wizard, cleric or druid.

[virgil]

Well, the beguiler has its uses, being all that a sorcerer is with extra layers of awesome. Wizard has the advantage of being able to rise in power without actually going up in level, assuming I'm allowed downtime. Cleric would be better, but it would be more obvious if I dominate. Druid suffers from the same syndrome, especially since I doubt I'll be able to argue the rules to be anything other than untemplated animals and I can imagine several shapeshifting stealth nerfs.

So, it's a toss-up between utility wall-mancer with the wizard, or a beguiler.

Any suggestions on what kind of feats to aim for with the beguiler? I know to use the "Spells that fvcking kill people" as a guideline for spell selection.

EDIT: I just now noticed that they don't have the warlock as an available class. I'm almost certain that was intentional on their part, and if I know the DM, I suspect it's because of either demon=villian in his mind or that it's overpowered. If that's any indication of what I have to look forward too.

[josephbt]

8th: Cast a 9th level spell out of a 4th level spell slot
9th: Arcane Disciple(Luck), Cast Miracle out of a 3rd, or 4th level spell slot

Errr, what? I guess i could go to wizzo boards and dig arround for a while, but i gave up on that board year ago, so mind explainig?

[shirak]

1188974316[/unixtime]]

8th: Cast a 9th level spell out of a 4th level spell slot
9th: Arcane Disciple(Luck), Cast Miracle out of a 3rd, or 4th level spell slot

Errr, what? I guess i could go to wizzo boards and dig arround for a while, but i gave up on that board year ago, so mind explainig?

Here you go. By our very own Nine Inch Nall no less

[CalibronXXX]

1188
974316[/unixtime]]Errr, what? I guess i could go to wizzo boards and dig arround for a while, but i gave up on that board year ago, so mind explainig?

Shadowcraft Mage level 3 class feature lets you turn figments into shadow evocations/conjurations(as the spell). The available conjuration and evocation spells are one level lower than the effective spell level of the figment spell you're using; furthermore the shadow spells are only 10% real per effective spell level, if a target disbelieves your illusion they only take as much damage or are effected as often as the reality of the spell indicates. If they don't disbelieve your shadow illusion they're affected as normal for the spell.

When using Heighten Spell in conjunction with Earth Spell the effective spell is bumped up one level beyond whatever you heightened it to without further increasing the level of spell slot. In addition you get a bonus to caster level equal to the number of spell levels you heightened it by(not counting the bonus level bump from Earth Spell).

Residual Metamagic lets you cast a metamagic enhanced spell and apply that metamagic to one spell you cast in the next round with no spell slot increase. So at level eight you take a silent image(whose spell level was dropped from 1 to 0 thanks to your Gnome wizard substitution level) heightened to fourth level, being effectively heightened 5 spell levels thanks to Earth Spell and use that to cast any 4th level or lower Wiz/sorc conjuration or evocation spell at 50% reality. In the next round you cast another Silent Image heightened to 4th level, thanks to Residual Metamagic you add the 5 increased effective spell levels to your already effective level 5 spell and get an effective level 10 spell, allowing you to cast any wix/sorc Conjuration or Evocation of level 9 or lower at 100% reality.

It gets even better at level 9 when you take Arcane Disciple(Luck), because Arcane Disciple adds the associated domain spells to the your class spell list, and the Luck Domain's 9th level spell is Miracle. Miracle is an Evocation spell.

[virgil]

Oi, I just don't understand these people sometimes (the DMs). They consider the warlock to be overpowered as all get out because of the at-will flight/invisibility and stuff, coupled with near-guaranteed damage every round. Hell, they consider reserve feats to be overpowered because of the constant +1CL for fire spells (or something) on top of the equivalent to eldritch blast.

[Koumei]

I find the reserve feats to be a slap in the face to Warlocks, but really, more because they prove what Eldritch Blast is worth (less than a feat), not because it's good and then they stole it. When you get down to it, Warlocks are a slap in the face to Warlocks.

But yeah, given that half the time flight isn't actually that great, and when it is, well, they spent a resource on it (whereas any other caster spent next to nothing, other than the Sorcerer who regrets it for a few levels), and Invisibility isn't that special. Heck, the real casters practically have everything at will.

[cthulhu]

If you play something super janky in a game like that there will be Issues. So definately go the wall-mancer.

[CalibronXXX]

My suggested skeleton build does make a great wall-mage.

[virgil]

After some discussion, I get further muddled. I think their biggest issue is at-will combat spells, because apparently they're fine with a 2000gp cure light wounds at-will magic item.

Well, I checked their list, and they're already disallowing Earth Spell and Residual Magic as choosable feats. They're just fearful of any kind of caster level enhancement or similar effect, and they saw your Killer Gnome build awhile back on the boards; so they're likely to be wary of shadow mages in general.

Yeah, I'm going wall-mancer, but I just need to figure out what my first feat is going to be. Flavour-wise, he'll be a math-orient worshipper of Law, where Law in his eyes is following rules.

[virgil]

Well, so far, here's what I've got made...

Race: Grey Elf (ability scores accounted for)
Class: Wizard 1
Ability Scores (32 point-buy)
Strength 8
Dexterity 12
Constitution 12
Intelligence 20
Wisdom 12
Charisma 10
Skill Ranks: Decipher Script 4, Search 2, Concentration 4, Spellcraft 4, Knowledge (arcana) 4, Knowledge (Religion, the Planes, Local, Engineering) 2
Feat: Remains to be chosen
Gear: Remains to be spent
Staring Spells: Enlarge Person, Sleep, Silent Image, Color Spray, Unseen Servant, Mage Armor, Disguise Self, Identify

Campaign Allowed Feats: as it pertains to a caster
PHB: All
Cityscape: Deceptive Spell, Sculpt Spell
PHBII: Arcane Accompaniment, Arcane Consumption, Arcane Flourish, Arcane Toughness, Bonded Familiar, Combat Familiar, Dampen Spell, Elven Spell Lore, Spell-Link Familiar, Vatic Gaze, Blistering Spell, Earthbound Spell, Flash Frost Spell, Imbued Summoning, Mad Alchemist
Complete Arcane: Pretty much all of them
Complete Mage: Alacritous Cogitation, Battlecaster Defense, Battlecaster Offense, Cloudy Conjuration, Dazzling Illusion, Delay Potion, Elemental Adept, Energy Abjuration, Favored Magic Foe, Fearsome Necromancy, Hasty Spirit, Insightful Divination, Magic Device Attunement, Master of Undeath, Melodic Casting, Metamagic Vigor, Piercing Evocation, Rapid Metamagic, Somatic Weaponry, Toughening Transformation, Unsettling Enchantment
Libris Mortis: Most all of them, from what I can tell
Other: They allow feats from the Races of Destiny, Stone, & Wild as well. It's not total from the fact Earth Sense isn't in there, and neither is Earthen Spell. There might be more removed, but I don't have those books, so I can't refer to them to know what's missing from their list. I can tell you, any caster related feats not mentioned in the larger lists were intentionally left out due to perceived overpowered-ness; though I did leave out a couple of the really crappy ones from the PHBII to save on typing (same goes for the heritage feats in the Complete Mage)

[Sma]

I'd drop WIS to 10 for more CON.

[JonSetanta]

Hmm speaking of Clericarcher, I been curious about that since there have been repeated recent mentions of the build.

Anyone have a link or text of a Cleric Archer, or just a list of some basic spells and requirements to become a generalized one?
And does it work as well with thrown weapons, such as spears...

[Sma]

At its core it's having Divine Favor and Divine Power up whenever you need it.

While there are various way to assure that, the easiest would be grabbing Divine Metamagic (Persistant) and a couple of Nightsticks to power it.
Usually you also grab a Bead of Karma for the +4 CL during your morning buff session and supplement your fighting prowess with Greater Magic Weapon and Magic Vestment on your plate and buckler for more damage and AC.

So you're a 7th level cleric down 1 first level, 2 3rd level and 2 fourth level spells and a whopping 14 uses of turn undead.
In exchange you get a BAB of 7, +6 STR, +5 to attack and damage and +4 AC. What you want to do with all the other spell slots is up to you, as are the other feat and equipment choices. The real beauty is being able to switch to a completely different playmode the next day when you decide to pick different spells.
The search function should turn up more as does google.

[cthulhu]

1189153062[/unixtime]]I'd drop WIS to 10 for more CON.

don't grey elves get -2 con? In which case he cannot do that.. but if I'm stupid and they don't yeah get more con. It drops that chance of randomly getting one shotted

[virgil]

Yeah, I already made the base Constitution 14, but the racial mod shot it down to 12.

[Sma]

Nevermind then, overlooked the race .

[virgil]

Bah, this feat selection is driving me nuts. Could you tell me if there are any better feats (from the above list) than what I've narrowed it down to, or if my current choices are crap?
* Eschew Materials
* Improved Initiative
* Skill Focus (Concentration)
* Spell Focus (Illusion)
* Extend Spell

I will take Craft Wonderous Item as soon as I hit level 3. There's a possibility of me taking the Geometer PrC for at least a level to save on spellbook scribing costs, since they house-ruled secret page to not give free scribing.