Archmage Cheese -- Now it's Legal!

[Lago_AM3P]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dn ... uote]Using a spell-like ability is a standard action that provokes an attack of opportunity. Sometimes using a spell-like ability can be a free action or a full-round action, or it can have an even longer activation time. However, it's a standard action unless the ability description specifically says otherwise. A creature using a spell-like ability can use all the tricks that a spellcaster can use to avoid that nasty attack of opportunity. The creature can take a 5-foot step before using the ability (so as to get out of a threatened area). The creature also can make a Concentration check to use the ability defensively. [/quote]

So it looks like Skip completely supports spell like ability'd planar bindings and major creations.

That sucks.

[Username17]

It was always legal. That's what the rules on Spell-like abilities really say - that's what they've said since the beginning.

The best is the part about Spell Like abilities is that you don't have to pay XP costs unless the ability says that you do. The Archmage says that you do, but the Efreet Wish granting ability does not.

A Wish can create a magical item of unlimited power - but the XP cost goes up very high very quickly when you do. An Efreet does not have to pay that cost, and can therefore give a character any magical item of unlimited power.

That's what the rules of spell-like abilities really say, and unless Skip does some very weird and specific rules rewrites in part II it's going to back that up 100%.

-Username17

[Username17]

Did I call it or what:

A spell-like ability has no verbal, somatic, material, focus, or XP components. Using a spell-like ability is a purely mental action, albeit one that requires enough concentration to provoke attacks of opportunity. It is quite possible, however, that a creature using a spell-like ability might add some gesture, word, or flourish just for dramatic effect.

Skip , naked.

So yes, the infinite power out of Planar Binding is officially clarified as legal as well. Which won't stop people from arguing that it somehow doesn't say that because it's ungamebalanced - but at least it's something to throw back in their face any time someone says that Planar Binding doesn't need a reworking.

-Username17

[da_chicken]

Because specific cases never override general rules!

[User3]

I would think that one of the better spells to use for a Archmage's Spell-like Ability is 8th level spell - Trap the Soul.

It bypasses the need to spend literally tens of thousands of GP at higher levels.

Although for the life of me, since you don't need material components or a focus, I can't figure out how you can use the spell without using the gem (which apparently is not neccessary anymore).

Any ideas?

[Boulie_98]

1083092780[/unixtime]]Although for the life of me, since you don't need material components or a focus, I can't figure out how you can use the spell without using the gem (which apparently is not neccessary anymore).

Any ideas?

A small mirror? Flavorwise it makes sense, I think. And it's cheap.

Though personally I'd still go with planar binding.

[Username17]

The Archmage's ability doesn't bypass the need for costly material components, although it does bypass the need for uncosted but difficult to acquire ones (like Planeshift's fork).

But shades does. The 3.5 Shades can make a Trap the Soul every time it is cast. Which since those things last forever, means that you can spend a few days filling up a filing cabinet for a targetted gem against everyone you've ever know - or simply create one in the middle of combat - whatever.

-Username17

[User3]

This doesn't make any sense.

I see chosing Planar Binding as a smart and effective choice for Archmage Spell-like Ability ... but I don't see it being "cheese".

The only benefit you get from choosing Planar Binding as a (Sp) for Archmage is the reduced casting time, extra castings per day, and typical (Sp) superiority over outright casting.

What "cheese" am I missing?

[Username17]

The circle is a non-costed material component, which you don't need to provide. So you can, as a standard action, create the circle and the outsider anywhere within range.

So with a single action, you can create the planar trap right next to an enemy, for example. The creature gets to act immediately, and you can choose to call creatures which will full attack anything they are summoned next to.

-Username17

[User3]

I see.

So let's say the opponent takes the full attack and survives. He then decides to bolt, leaves the Circle (and thereby breaks it, freeing the binded Outsider from its Circle entrapment).

Now you have a ticked-off Outsider who could theoretically chose you or the prior-hit opponent to attack next. Unless of course, you summoned a good "intelligent" creature and you are good and your foe is evil (or a similar opposite scenario).

Still, that latter part doesn't sound too kosher if you don't have certain variables just right.

[fbmf]

Perhaps I am not understanding you, Guest, but if you are talking about the outsider you summoned with Shades losing his shit and attacking you, consider this:

The outsider in question is your illusion from the Shades spell. When he loses his kewl and comes at you cancel the spell and call it a day.

Game On,
fbmf

[User3]

Perhaps I am not understanding you, Guest, but if you are talking about the outsider you summoned with Shades losing his shit and attacking you, consider this:

The outsider in question is your illusion from the Shades spell. When he loses his kewl and comes at you cancel the spell and call it a day.

I think the "guest" is talking about the standard use of Planar Binding when used as a Spelllike Ability by an Arch-mage. Not Shades.

That being said, I agree -- I don't see any cheese in using Planar Binding as a SLA. Frank's example seem effective and cool, but not overpowering. And its novel as hell being able to cut down that casting time to 1 standard action.

if someone has an example of the above as being uber-powered, feel free to expound.

[Username17]

Well, Planar Binding is not the best example - as the most powerful applications of it (gaining infinite wishes, for example), can still only be performed non-combat.

The best example of the archmage spell-like ability is Major Creation. It allows you to create anything you want - including adamantine cages filled with lava - anywhere you want within range. There's no save and no spell resistance, which is not normally a problem because it takes 10 minutes to create the object after which your enemies have probably, you know, moved.

But with a single action you can put someone into something which highly resembles a force cage, except that it also prevents most spellcasting and does 10 dice of damage a round.

Not bad for using up one of your spell-like ability slots.

Note also that you can fill those cages with Black Lotus Extract, or create a barrel full of healing salve. Or a bridge, or a wall, or whatever. It's one of the most powerful and versatile spells ever made, and it is only limited by time. Which it is now no longer limited by.

Speaking of which, another perenial favorite, fabricate - also has no saving throw. And while it can't be used to turn enemy magic items into slag - can be used to turn anything else into slag (the DC to create a pile of slag is only zero, after all). More hillarious still, when its casting time is reduced to a standard action, you can use it to transform non-magical armor into masterwork manacles that they are still wearing.

Good times.

-Username17