Caster levels without caster levels confuse me.

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Count Arioch the 28th
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Caster levels without caster levels confuse me.

Post by Count Arioch the 28th »

I've seen a lot of ranting on this board, I found one of my own.

I recently purchased the expanded psi handbook. I was looking through the new rules, and came across something disturbing under the illithid slayer PrC:

XPH wrote: If the character did not belong to a manifesting class before taking this prestige class (for example, if she was a soulknife or a ranger with the Wild Talent feat), she does not gain manifesting levels.


Why would they make a PrC that gains manifesting/spellcasting levels, then make it so non manifesters can get into them, and kick them in the nuts?

Of course, they don't stop wizards from entering Forsaker, but then again, eveything sucks the second you take that class, so perhaps that's a bad example.

anyway, what's wrong with just saying "If you don't have a manifester class, you manifest as a Psychis warrior" or something like that? Sure, it wouldn't be that great, but it would be better than "No psi for you, dumbass!"
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Re: Caster levels without caster levels confuse me.

Post by User3 »

Its to prevent people from just taking a feat like Wild Talent to meet the qualifications. If your not willing to take even one level of a Psi class, and the potential XP cost, then you don't deserve the full-on powers.

Retributive logic, I know, but Psi people tend to thing that Psi is some exclusive club and we're all idiots for not trying to get into it.

Since Psi powers are either weak or totally broken(like the ninth level telepathy power that lets you jump body to body forever), I don't really care. I'm not going to play a Psi-guy.
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Count Arioch the 28th
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Re: Caster levels without caster levels confuse me.

Post by Count Arioch the 28th »

then why do they have not one, but two classes that don't require it, that give power progression?

If your logic was true, then the Warmind and the Fist of Zuoken, one of which just requires you to take wild talent, the other of which only requires you to have power points (Which, if yopu use the races in the psi handbook, means that there are quite a few that qualify at creation as far as that prereq goes.)

However, I'm staring right at them. They exist. Therefore, your "Old Psion's club" theory is incorrect.

And I don't see how the mind switching thingy is too powerful, all it does is prevent you from dying of old age. Whoop de freaking doo.

Jury's still out on whether most of the new psi is weak, but it is loads stronger than it was in 3.0.

I think that, after not receiving any sort of intellegent feedback (I'm positive most people on this board are ignoring me), I'm just going to chalk it up to my original suspicioun: Bad design, and just let the slayer sans manifester levels get levels in Psion if they didn't have any before.
In this moment, I am Ur-phoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my int score.
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fbmf
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Re: Caster levels without caster levels confuse me.

Post by fbmf »

I'm not ignoring you, Count. I'm just not into Psi at all, so I wouldn't be much help.

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Count Arioch the 28th
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Re: Caster levels without caster levels confuse me.

Post by Count Arioch the 28th »

I know you aren't, that's cool. why the hell would you be quoting me if you have me on ignore? :uptosomething:
In this moment, I am Ur-phoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my int score.
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Re: Caster levels without caster levels confuse me.

Post by fbmf »

Excellent point.

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Re: Caster levels without caster levels confuse me.

Post by Maj »

If there isn't a way to become a manifester, then I'd have to say that there should be an alternative gain - like a bonus feat or +1 to your attack or something.

The class was supposedly balanced to include the caster levels. Suddenly dropping them to allow for non casting illithid killers means that there should be something gained or else the class is no longer balanced.
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