WotC is still in denial: Fighters

[Count Arioch the 28th]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dn ... br][br]The next edition of this odd line.

Nothing as galringly odd in this one, although it does try to tout having the worst saves in the game as a benfit.

[Oberoni]

As useless as we may find these articles, I can see showing them to a newbie just to give him a heads-up on what he's getting into.

As long as you correct the incorrect parts, of course.

[Josh_Kablack]

In concept, it's a good series. In execution, it has a bunch of wacky parts. It would have been nice if Andy and the .5 crew had sat down with something like these as "design paradigms" to keep in mind for the new edition.

[RandomCasualty]

I like how the wizard one actually encourages you to keep a copy of your spellbook. Who actually does that given the ridiculously absurd spellbook prices?

[Username17]

1100258119[/unixtime]]I like how the wizard one actually encourages you to keep a copy of your spellbook. Who actually does that given the ridiculously absurd spellbook prices?

Um... noone who uses the fantagastical spellbook prices certainly. Some people keep back-up spells in a Boccob's Blessed Book, which lowers the cost significantly. Also, some people use Fabricate to make their own ink at 1/3 cost and then use that FRCS copying spell to copy their spellbook at a further reduction of 50% on top of the already 1/2 cost for making a second copy.

I'm just not going to spend 100 gold a spell level for a copy of a spellbook that will only ever matter if the DM is being a dick. 17 gold per spell level, OTOH, is fine. I'm willing to do that. However, I didn't see Skip suggesting any of those tricks, merely suggesting that you should take vast sums of money and set them on fire from level one on.

-Username17

[Tae_Kwon_Dan]

You almost wonder if they expect people to do stupid stuff with their money and that's how we ended up with the wealthy by level guidelines.

[The_Hanged_Man]

lol

[Mole_2]

1100277388[/unixtime]]

I'm just not going to spend 100 gold a spell level for a copy of a spellbook that will only ever matter if the DM is being a dick.

-Username17

So wizard can only lose a spellbook if the DM is a dick ?

[Username17]

Permanently? Absolutely. A non-permanent loss of a spellbook (such as: the PCs have been captured by Blue Laser and all their gear is in a chest upstairs!) can be a cool adventure hook, but having a backup spellbook for that contingency is pointless.

Permanently taking a Wizard's spellbook is just like having a Cleric's god disown him - it's just a crappy thing to do to a player. Legal, but crappy.

-Username17

[Thoth_Amon]

"Damn you Blue Laser!!"

17gp/level... I might make a copy of my spellbook at that cost as well.

TA

[User3]

Guess what didn't make it onto the Wizard item list... Spell component pouch. No really, you *do* need one of those.

--Squirrelloid

[Judging__Eagle]

Wait, now I remember why Archivists are so handy.

Writing their Prayers down costs them nothing, but they could sell them to other Archivists for cash.

[Brobdingnagian]

I don't have time to make fun of his entire article, so here's just a few pieces.

The fighter's 10-sided Hit Dice let him absorb lots of damage and keep right on going.

Because no SoD spell is ever based off a Will save. Right.

Because a fighter can use any simple or martial weapon, he's a deadly opponent no matter what weapon he wields.

'Cept for, y'know, his fist. Amazing how somebody who can get off three attacks a round with a greatsword can't punch worth a crap.

Fighters gain a generous selection of bonus feats. Though they're mostly combat-oriented, these feats allow you great flexibility in tailoring a character to your taste.

Oh, yeah. Power Attack and Cleave are probably a couple of the best feats in the PHB, and it's not like those are useful only against kobolds, goblins, and maybe a sprite. Sure.

A fighter's natural place in an adventuring party is the front rank, because he has to be able to place himself between his more vulnerable compatriots and the enemy.

No, a fighter's natural place in an adventuring is at the front rank because the point-man tends to die, and that's really all the core fighter is good for.

Choose a martial or exotic weapon with a good damage rating and a decent capacity for making critical hits. A bastard sword or dwarven waraxe is a great choice because you can wield it in one hand if you take the right feat.

The fighter is crappy enough without wasting a feat to use the bastard sword. Don't get me wrong, I love the weapon, but I'll take the 1d8 of the Longsword without burning a feat, or maybe just play a RoW fighter.

When not devising swift and cruel deaths for player characters

You mean by telling them to play core fighters and pick PHB "combat" feats?

And now the rogue.

With a whopping eight skill points per level, even a rogue with a poor Intelligence score has plenty of skill points to spend.

Oh, yeah, tons. You know need an INT of something like 16+ (if human) to cap a reasonable number of those skills and make yourself useful in more than one situation, right? As said by Ben Parker, "With great skill points comes way too many class skills". Or something like that.

A rogue can improve her defenses in various ways, but all of them deplete her resources.

You mean like every other character in the game?

You can't always know what tricks and stratagems will work in a given situation, so always try to have a backup plan.

You mean like the fighter should?

As a rogue, you have no shield proficiency unless you burn a feat to get it, but a masterwork buckler won't cause you any difficulty even if you aren't proficient.

A MWK Buckler won't cause any difficulty for anyone except maybe a wizard. And even then, not really.

A light slashing weapon, such as a dagger or hand axe, can help you get out of a tight spot (for example, being swallowed whole by a big monster).

If the rogue is being eaten, you've probably already screwed things up beyond fixing.

When not devising swift and cruel deaths for player characters

Sorry, needed to quote that one again. You forgot "uncreative" there, Skip.

I don't have time to get into the wizards. Maybe later.

[User3]

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[Brobdingnagian]

What?

[the_taken]

addbot

just ignore it, a human will terminate it shortly

[User3]

Because a fighter can use any simple or martial weapon, he's a deadly opponent no matter what weapon he wields.

'Cept for, y'know, his fist. Amazing how somebody who can get off three attacks a round with a greatsword can't punch worth a crap.

I'm surprised that you didn't even go for the blatant logic error in that quote. It parses the same as "because I can eat any food found in my kitchen or the supermarket, the food I eat is delicious no matter what it is!" or "because I can take any regular or fighter bonus feat, my character will be flexible no matter what choices I make!". Ugh.

[Brobdingnagian]

Eh. I was on a tight schedule, and the idiocy of someone not being able to slap his opponent while capable of wielding a flail without problems is what immediately came to mind.

[Leress]

1172796921[/unixtime]

Choose a martial or exotic weapon with a good damage rating and a decent capacity for making critical hits. A bastard sword or dwarven waraxe is a great choice because you can wield it in one hand if you take the right feat.

The fighter is crappy enough without wasting a feat to use the bastard sword. Don't get me wrong, I love the weapon, but I'll take the 1d8 of the Longsword without burning a feat, or maybe just play a RoW fighter.

It is worse than that, you can use a bastard sword two handed without penalty if you have martial weapon proficiency. So the exotic weapon proficiency is worse because even though it takes away the penalties for using it one handed, using it one handed is the least optimal chose when you fight since two handed fighting is better than sword and board and two weapon fighting.

[Judging__Eagle]

Yeah, but everyone just uses a great sword and armour spikes then uses a +1 animated tower shield.

Bang, all three combat styles.

Meaning that combat style related feats are utter crap; since with core material they don't actually exist as distinct and seperate material.

What does exist is melee and reach-melee omni styles. So, use a melee TH weapon or a Reach TH weapon.

Man, now it sounds like I'm writing up a Lord Knight build for ragnarok online. Hybrided stat, omni-mastery builds and such were really my thing in that game.

[RandomCasualty]

1172847591[/unixtime]]Yeah, but everyone just uses a great sword and armour spikes then uses a +1 animated tower shield.

Bang, all three combat styles.

Yeah, it's why style theft abilities like these have to go.

The idea of offhand attacks that don't use a hand was fucking stupid anyway. I've always ruled that armor spikes need a free hand to use, as opposed to body checking the guy. Another way to do it would be to simply say they're secondary natural attacks. In any case, the dumb handless offhand weapon concept has to go.

As for animated shields, they're probably the lamest thing ever.

[Judging__Eagle]

1172856254[/unixtime]]

1172847591[/unixtime]]Yeah, but everyone just uses a great sword and armour spikes then uses a +1 animated tower shield.

Bang, all three combat styles.

Yeah, it's why style theft abilities like these have to go.

The idea of offhand attacks that don't use a hand was fvcking stupid anyway. I've always ruled that armor spikes need a free hand to use, as opposed to body checking the guy. Another way to do it would be to simply say they're secondary natural attacks. In any case, the dumb handless offhand weapon concept has to go.

As for animated shields, they're probably the lamest thing ever.

Except, it maks a lot pf sense from a fighting style point of view.

I use my flying door/sheild to guard me as I charge you, then swing my greatsword to crush your skull.

When you duck you get your knee slammed with my armour and spike plated leg.

The human leg weighs about 15 to 20 lbs on a 150-180 lb human; cover that in clothing, armour padding, plate armour, add a solid foot and some ripping spikes or blades and you go well past 25 pounds.

Now, swing that leg and acheive about 30 pounds of extra force and you're pushing over 50 pounds of force.

The human knee breaks at fifteen pounds of force.

I have now broken your knee and proceed to power attack and kick you to death.

My sheild protects me from your friends arrows; or I just go and kill them while the rogue or monk follows up and finishes you off.


Perfectly reasonable, and among current unarmed fighting styles that focus on striking is considered a gre tactic (when you aren't blocked or the guy raises his leg to use the much tougher shin to block with; shins are somewhere along the lines of 180 or more pounds of force to break) and some even focus specifically on striking only joints.

Striking means that your throwing out not just swings form your upper body; the immense strength of your legs and the pivot points of your hips can apply bone-breaking blows at an enemies legs and abdomen (more specifically knees; it taks less than 15 lbs of force for completely break a knee and torn, ripped or therwise damaged knee ligaments are big problem for both professional and amatuer grapplers/fighters in the real world.


So yeah, armour spikes are everywhere on your armour, and taking your hand off of 2handed weapon's handle after a swing isn't that big of a deal if your good at preserving momentum.

It's also entirely flavourful.

The fighter who opens up with a powerful initial attack that is really a feint for a secondary strike is one hat shows up in tons and tons of comics, movies, manga, TV series etc. that focus on physical combat.

Or, of course the grizzled fighter that will do anything to have an edge in a fight.

The callow youths pack a greatsword and armour.

The grizzled vets pack alchemical items, a variety of melee weapons and maybe even more than one ranged weapon (throwing axes, javelins, throwing hammers and a bow).

I've been playing pragmatists of all kinds in D&D for a long time now and I can definately see a fighter that's lived long enough will definately try to be unpredicatable in their fighting methods.

[Cielingcat]

1172856254[/unixtime]]
As for animated shields, they're probably the lamest thing ever.

Except for the animated bone walls from Diablo, those were awesome.

Now I feel the need to write a Bone Knight class that caters to actual necromancer/fighters instead of Clerics.

[Brobdingnagian]

Bone Wall (Su): A Bone Knight may dissassemble any skeletons under his control within fifty feet of himself to make a wall of bone (hardness 10, hit points = total combined hit points of skeletons used). A single medium-sized skeleton creates a wall 5-ft square and one inch thick. A single large creature can make two of these squares, or one square twice as thick. Two small creatures are required to make a single square. (Tiny = 4 creatures/square, Diminutive = 8 creatures/square, Fine = 16 creatures/square, Huge = 1 creature/4 squares, Gargantuan = 1 creature/8 squares, Collosal = 1 creature/16 squares). After being subjected to this ability, a skeleton no longer counts against the limit of undead the Bone Knight can control. If a wall is dismissed, the skeleton(s) used for its construction drop into a useless heap. They can afterward be reanimated as normal.

Think that might be a cool ability, or should he just pull these things from the ground?

[Cielingcat]

I was thinking more along the lines of a whirlwind of bones floating around him that granted bonuses to AC and maybe some other stuff. But pulling out a wall of bones is also totally awesome and would need to be included.