Multiattack? (RoW style)
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Multiattack? (RoW style)
I'm pretty bad at this. Is this reasonable? Overpowered? Underpowered?
Multiattack [Monstrous] [Combat]
Benefit: Your secondary attacks suffer no penalties. You may freely designate your primary attack.
+1: You may attack with all of your natural attacks as a standard action.
+6: During a full attack action, you may make iterative attacks with one of your natural attacks in addition to your other attacks.
+11: Your natural attacks bypass material damage reduction.
+16: You may make iterative attacks with all your natural attacks.
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NineInchNall
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Re: Multiattack? (RoW style)
That last bit is as crazy as mouthpicks.
Current pet peeves:
Misuse of "per se". It means "[in] itself", not "precisely". Learn English.
Malformed singular possessives. It's almost always supposed to be 's.
Misuse of "per se". It means "[in] itself", not "precisely". Learn English.
Malformed singular possessives. It's almost always supposed to be 's.
Re: Multiattack? (RoW style)
Due to the largely unlimited number of natural attacks a creature can have, this would be a bit much. For example, a dragon with two claws, a bite, a tail ,and two stupid wing attacks (and full BAB) gets three times the benefit of RoW TWF from this.
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Cielingcat
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Re: Multiattack? (RoW style)
The last part is definitely a problem. How about you let them get their full Str bonus to damage for natural attacks whenever they would normally get only .5xStr?
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Re: Multiattack? (RoW style)
How about:
+16: When you make a full attack action, you gain one iterative attack with each attack that is not getting full iterative attacks.
That perhaps at least bring things down from crazy town, though perhaps it is also too strong. Certainly the number of natural attacks varies a lot (from 1-7?). Alternately, granting a fixed number of additional attacks to be made with secondary attacks (+2 attacks?)
Is full str bonus to damage worth a +16 ability? I suppose it applies all the time, which is pretty useful.
Obviously attention has been drawn to the overpowered +16 ability -- does the rest of it match up well with other feats? That's honestly more important to me, as I've never played in a campaign where anyone acquired a +16 BAB.
+16: When you make a full attack action, you gain one iterative attack with each attack that is not getting full iterative attacks.
That perhaps at least bring things down from crazy town, though perhaps it is also too strong. Certainly the number of natural attacks varies a lot (from 1-7?). Alternately, granting a fixed number of additional attacks to be made with secondary attacks (+2 attacks?)
Is full str bonus to damage worth a +16 ability? I suppose it applies all the time, which is pretty useful.
Obviously attention has been drawn to the overpowered +16 ability -- does the rest of it match up well with other feats? That's honestly more important to me, as I've never played in a campaign where anyone acquired a +16 BAB.
Re: Multiattack? (RoW style)
Your model for whether a feat that adds attacks is balanced should be, "Will the game cry if a darktentacles [MM2] takes it?" For instance, Multiweapon Fighting as written in the MM is frankly unbalanced, even compared to the RoW feats and given the usual limitations on fighting with multiple weapons. (If you need convincing, try building a thri-kreen with any good source of bonus damage.)
Now, let's look at the specific abilities.
Benefit: Your secondary attacks suffer no penalties. You may freely designate your primary attack.
You can read this to mean, "receive your full Str bonus to damage," which your other comments imply you did not intend. Why not have the attacks take -2, like the corresponding RoW feat and the current Multiattack?
+1: You may attack with all of your natural attacks as a standard action.
This is similar to pounce, but less broken. It arrives earlier than the corresponding RoW ability, but is not too broken to live.
+6: During a full attack action, you may make iterative attacks with one of your natural attacks in addition to your other attacks.
All Dungeonomicon monks take this. We're starting to head into crazy-town here, since if you have a natural attack, any natural attack, you can take this feat and slap it onto your attack routine, even if you're using THF or TWF.
+11: Your natural attacks bypass material damage reduction.
Good, but not overpoweringly so.
+16: You may make iterative attacks with all your natural attacks.
Totally crazy. The darktentacles gets something like 48 attacks.
Now, let's look at the specific abilities.
Benefit: Your secondary attacks suffer no penalties. You may freely designate your primary attack.
You can read this to mean, "receive your full Str bonus to damage," which your other comments imply you did not intend. Why not have the attacks take -2, like the corresponding RoW feat and the current Multiattack?
+1: You may attack with all of your natural attacks as a standard action.
This is similar to pounce, but less broken. It arrives earlier than the corresponding RoW ability, but is not too broken to live.
+6: During a full attack action, you may make iterative attacks with one of your natural attacks in addition to your other attacks.
All Dungeonomicon monks take this. We're starting to head into crazy-town here, since if you have a natural attack, any natural attack, you can take this feat and slap it onto your attack routine, even if you're using THF or TWF.
+11: Your natural attacks bypass material damage reduction.
Good, but not overpoweringly so.
+16: You may make iterative attacks with all your natural attacks.
Totally crazy. The darktentacles gets something like 48 attacks.
Re: Multiattack? (RoW style)
Fundamentally the problem is that Wizards has no idea what a natural attack is, and therefore sometimes give out 10 attacks to a squid ('cause it has 10 tentacles), and sometimes give out one slam to a warforged.
Trying to balance a feat which augments an unbalanced foundation is going to be tough. Anuthing that gives you more attacks per natural attack probably won't work.
Trying to balance a feat which augments an unbalanced foundation is going to be tough. Anuthing that gives you more attacks per natural attack probably won't work.
Re: Multiattack? (RoW style)
When armed with two weapons, you fight with two weapons rather than picking and choosing and fighting with only one. Kind of obvious in retrospect.
Benefits: You suffer no penalty for doing things with your off-hand. When you make an attack or full-attack action, you may make a number of attacks with your off-hand weapon equal to the number of attacks you are afforded with your primary weapon.
I don't see where you get a -2 penalty for offhand attacks.
"Will the game cry if a darktentacles [MM2] takes it?" It would help if I owned the MM2. Thanks for the input.
I was thinking about this:
Multiattack [Monstrous] [Combat]
Benefit: Your secondary natural attacks suffer a -2 penalty to attack tolls instead of -5.
+1: You may attack once with all of your natural attacks as a standard action.
+6: During a full attack action, you may make iterative attacks with one of your primary natural attacks in addition to your other attacks, assuming you do not make any other iterative attacks.
+11: Your natural attacks bypass material damage reduction.
+16: Secondary natural attacks suffer no penalty to attack, and gain the full benefits of strength to damage dealt.
but I think it's still probably too good, after comparing it to other stuff. What about?:
Multiattack [Monstrous] [Combat]
Benefit: Your secondary natural attacks suffer a -2 penalty to attack rolls instead of -5.
+1: Your natural attacks bypass material damage reduction.
+6: You may attack once with all of your natural attacks as a standard action.
+11 Your secondary natural attacks are made at no penalty to attack rolls.
+16: During a full attack action, you may make iterative attacks with one of your primary natural attacks in addition to your other attacks, assuming you do not make any other iterative attacks.
Thoughts?
Yes, I guess I agree now that anything per natural attack is doomed to failure (and lots and lots of dice rolling). I guess I needed to be beat with an obvious stick.
Benefits: You suffer no penalty for doing things with your off-hand. When you make an attack or full-attack action, you may make a number of attacks with your off-hand weapon equal to the number of attacks you are afforded with your primary weapon.
I don't see where you get a -2 penalty for offhand attacks.
"Will the game cry if a darktentacles [MM2] takes it?" It would help if I owned the MM2. Thanks for the input.
I was thinking about this:
Multiattack [Monstrous] [Combat]
Benefit: Your secondary natural attacks suffer a -2 penalty to attack tolls instead of -5.
+1: You may attack once with all of your natural attacks as a standard action.
+6: During a full attack action, you may make iterative attacks with one of your primary natural attacks in addition to your other attacks, assuming you do not make any other iterative attacks.
+11: Your natural attacks bypass material damage reduction.
+16: Secondary natural attacks suffer no penalty to attack, and gain the full benefits of strength to damage dealt.
but I think it's still probably too good, after comparing it to other stuff. What about?:
Multiattack [Monstrous] [Combat]
Benefit: Your secondary natural attacks suffer a -2 penalty to attack rolls instead of -5.
+1: Your natural attacks bypass material damage reduction.
+6: You may attack once with all of your natural attacks as a standard action.
+11 Your secondary natural attacks are made at no penalty to attack rolls.
+16: During a full attack action, you may make iterative attacks with one of your primary natural attacks in addition to your other attacks, assuming you do not make any other iterative attacks.
Thoughts?
Yes, I guess I agree now that anything per natural attack is doomed to failure (and lots and lots of dice rolling). I guess I needed to be beat with an obvious stick.
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RandomCasualty
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Re: Multiattack? (RoW style)
Well, you don't even have to use a dark tentacles, just use a 12 headed hydra or something, or even a great wyrm.
Really, this feat seems unbelievably crazy for monsters to take. I can just see a BaB 20 dragon with this: 8 claw attacks, 4 bites, 8 wing slaps and 4 tail slaps. Oh, plus it can do that with fly-by attack and it breaches stoneskin.
You've more than quadrupled its offensive power. Uh... wow.
Really, this feat seems unbelievably crazy for monsters to take. I can just see a BaB 20 dragon with this: 8 claw attacks, 4 bites, 8 wing slaps and 4 tail slaps. Oh, plus it can do that with fly-by attack and it breaches stoneskin.
You've more than quadrupled its offensive power. Uh... wow.