Nar Demonbinder

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MrWaeseL
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Nar Demonbinder

Post by MrWaeseL »

Can anyone explain to me why the Nar Demonbinder is so broken? It advances at normal caster level, except that it gains extra level 4 spells instead of extra level x spells. The only interesting ability I see is the ability to tailor Blasphemy and the like to your needs, but that isn't broken, IMO. What am I missing?
Username17
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Re: Nar Demonbinder

Post by Username17 »

1. Blasphemy is itself broken. So any class which "specializes in Blasphemy" is problematic. It's like writing a class which specializes in Shades or Simulacrum.

2. The Nar Demon Binder's Caster Level is based on his caster level in other classes. This can lead to many exciting combinations, not the least of which is taking any of the other classes which do that, at which point you can have two classes which feed on each other and recursively raise Caster Level to values which are very high.

The two factors combine to form Devastator, the most powerful of the evil Deceptacons - because Blasphemy is at its most broken in its interaction with extremely high caster levels, which can be provided by multiclassing alternate spellcasters like the Demonbinder.

-Username17
RandomCasualty
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Re: Nar Demonbinder

Post by RandomCasualty »

Yeah, blasphemy is very overpowered, as are most of the no-save stun/kill spells. Anything that takes you out of a battle without so much as giving a saving throw is bad spell design IMO. It's just begging to get abused.
MrWaeseL
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Re: Nar Demonbinder

Post by MrWaeseL »

FrankTrollman at [unixtime wrote:1080755194[/unixtime]]It's like writing a class which specializes in Shades


Isn't there one in Underdark? The Shadowcrafter or something?
Wrenfield
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Re: Nar Demonbinder

Post by Wrenfield »

Besides Blasphemy and ND/Ur-Priest abuse, The Nar Demonbinder also allows you to create extremely customized and niche-oriented non-primary spellcaster archetypes ... who eventually get 7th or 8th level spells by 20th level.

For example, you can have a fairly pure Ranger, Paladin, or Bard build who again, can cast 8th level spells while still retaining the primary mechanics of the primary class.

Paladin-13 / Contemplative-1 / ND-1 / Sacred Exorcist-5

(Contemplative gets you the Summoning PrD) ... BAB +16

Ranger-11 / Contemplative-1 / ND-1 / Verdant Lord-7

(Go Rgr11>VL2>Cont1>ND-1>VL5) ... BAB +18

Bard-9 / ND-1 / Virtuoso-10

(Add some Virt levels to Bard)

Paladin-4 / Fighter-1 / Templar-8 / ND-2 / Spellsword-1 / SacredExorcist-4

(A good Tank with BAB +18 and lots of great class abilities - especially saves!)

...

And the list goes on and on. ND is the most versatile PrC published by WotC. None of the above builds are power builds - and many require high stats to pull off - but you get the picture how a small 7 level PrC can make some pretty interesting and situationally powerful characters. To use ND with Mystic Theurge or Spellsword, be sure to take the Spell Preparation feat, then prep a Corrupt or Sanctified 2nd level spell in your ND 4th level slot. This will help you fulfill the casting criteria.
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