Hey, Frank or K (Kieth?); a ruling on a RoW Barbarian's Rage

[Judging__Eagle]

In this thread:

(the specialist mage thread)

http://bb.bbboy.net/thegamingden-viewth ... br]Edovior described that the barb in his group uses potions while raging.

Is that possbile or is it not possible?

I'm asking since potiong chugging still counts as using a magical item?

[Catharz]

I'm not the right Keith, but I'm a Keith...

Anyway, it just says "magic items," and honestly the idea of a barbarian angrily pausing in the midst of battle to furiously remove a potion from his belt and with foaming mouth an hate in his eyes, chug it...is just a little silly.

The barbarian is angry, and while in a rage he'll stop at nothing to pound his enemies into the ground. He actually needs to sit around fuming and doing nothing (maybe being dumped into a succession of water barrels) to chill out enough to do anything but kill.

Maybe it would makes sense for a 'drunken rager.'

[Judging__Eagle]

Good, which is why I stand by my reasoning that "the Barbarian took the potions" is the worst fvcking tactic since it actually accomplishes nothing.

Mostly b/c once they end their rage they get their fast healing to kick in. So, yeah, it's useless, but only for them.

Regular tanks, like Knights would really benefit from being able to drink a pot or two every battle or so.

[Endovior]

Technically, according to the rules, a Barbarian can throw acid at people while raging. It being my game, I ruled that potions don't require "activation" (in the sense of command words, concentration, etc...), and thus are usable by barbarians.

[Neeek]

1170648924[/unixtime]]Technically, according to the rules, a Barbarian can throw acid at people while raging.

Throwing acid at someone is nothing like drinking a potion. If you can throw anything (rocks, javelins, whatever) throwing acid isn't any more complicated. Pulling out a flask and downing it on the other hand is a non-offensive action, that would take some thought. The two aren't related, nor parallel.

[User3]

For the record, I agree with Catharz's interpretation.

[Crissa]

I would say that A) Potions aren't magic items with activation, and B) Barbarians still can't use them while Raging.

In fact, just take the character sheet away from the Barbarian while they're raging and go with the player saying, 'I want to kill him,' as how complicated their actions are.

-Crissa

[Judging__Eagle]

1170658917[/unixtime]]I would say that A) Potions aren't magic items with activation, and B) Barbarians still can't use them while Raging.

In fact, just take the character sheet away from the Barbarian while they're raging and go with the player saying, 'I want to kill him,' as how complicated their actions are.

-Crissa

That's actually a good sentiment.


Except for one problem.


The barbarian probably has so many fvcking options with regards to their To-Hit and Damage that almost no one except themselves would know them all.


Really.


I actually had to make a spreadsheet in excel and print it off just to have my Barbarian's to-hit and damage potential easy to read-off on the fly.

And that's not even including power attack To-hit for Damage trade off charts that list your new to-hit and new damage calculation.


Oh, and this isn't even for that 'complex' or high of a level character.

It's just for a straight 6th lvl human barbarian.


Then again, he's a Bltizing, Combat Schooled, Two Weapon fighting Whirlwind of bludgeouning, slashing and stabbing with heavily weighed and bladed and spiked 'chains' as well as wearing adamantine armour that is just covered in knives and daggers, with some weighed gauntlets and boots for extra ass-kickieness.

[User3]

Oh ya, so Rage Dice 'only apply to attacks gained from BAB.'

I read this to exclude the Haste attack, and (although they're based on BAB) TWF attacks and AoOs. But I'm completely unsure of that interpretation. Anyone know the Truth?

[Crissa]

1170688684[/unixtime]]The barbarian probably has so many fvcking options with regards to their To-Hit and Damage that almost no one except themselves would know them all.

I would hope these would be on the character sheet.

And that the DM would know what they are, as well.

...

And if they aren't, and the DM doesn't...

What the heck are you playing?

-Crissa

[User3]

1170724547[/unixtime]]

1170688684[/unixtime]]The barbarian probably has so many fvcking options with regards to their To-Hit and Damage that almost no one except themselves would know them all.

I would hope these would be on the character sheet.

And that the DM would know what they are, as well.

...

And if they aren't, and the DM doesn't...

What the heck are you playing?

-Crissa

I think he was saying that he has so many options that its both (1) hard to keep track of them all without them being written down and (2) the DM shouldn't have to make that sort of judgement call for a player's character.

[Judging__Eagle]

1170713033[/unixtime]]Oh ya, so Rage Dice 'only apply to attacks gained from BAB.'

I read this to exclude the Haste attack, and (although they're based on BAB) TWF attacks and AoOs. But I'm completely unsure of that interpretation. Anyone know the Truth?

Oh, no.

It's just your BaB derived attacks.

Anything else would be madness.


Look at the knight, when they use their Chosen Foe damage; the knights two BaB derived attacks deal her level in D6's; her 3rd Haste-derived attack doesn't.


Seriously, it doesn't matter, the barb will still kill shit fast.

If you want to increase damage output; pick up Adamantine Armour and use a TWF style and Blitz to add your BaB to all damage rolls. you'll provoke AoOs on each attack, which is where the Adamantine kicks in to give you more DR (which stack btw, however Adamantine weapons will still bone you).


And, no Crissa, I'm playing a Barbarian, but he's using a war chain that can be used at reach/melee range, or as a double weapon. Plus I have spiked/razored/weighed armour so that I can engage in TWFing at melee or reach ranges.

So, I get rage dice and full str on half my attacks; and no rage dice and 1/2 my str on the other half.

Plus, I can blitz and power attack. Which needs careful managing since Blitz can ge tme killed if I'm too over-eager with it and PA can drop my +16/+16/+14/+14 to hit to as low as +10/+10/+8/+8 if I full power attack.

Since I tend to prefer hitting decently a for moderate damage, I don't PA unless I know I'll always hit.

Also, my To-Hit and Damage can vary by as much as 4 points every round if I'm raging or not; and my DR can vary by 5 points or not.

So, I'm playing a melee character that's just as difficult for me to play as the cleric and druid are for the players that have never played their classes before.

Really, my attack 'summary' reads as follows:

Attacks(Raging): Melee +1 Flesh-seeking Rage-Fueled Warchain +16/+16/+14/+14 (Main 1/Off 1/Main 2/Off 2) Warchain Melee (Main: 4d6 + 9; Off: 1d6 + 9 |Plus Daze Fort DC 16|17-20/x2| +6 damage When Blitzing)
or
Attacks(Raging): Melee +1 Flesh-seeking Rage-Fueled Warchain (w/ 10 foot Reach) and Armour Spikes/Razors +16/+16/+14/+14 (Main 1/Off 1/Main 2/Off 2) Warchain Melee (10 foot Reach) (Main: 4d6 + 9) Armour Spikes/Razors (Off: 1d6 + 9) |Plus Daze Fort DC 16|17-20/x2| +6 damage When Blitzing, provokes and AoO)
Attacks(Ranged):Ranged +7 Javeling (1d6+3 20/x2)

And, that's long enough without going into too many details.


My actual breakdown of combat bonuses is as follows.

Attack: +16/+16/+14/+14 War Chain and/or Armour Spikes/Razors

+6 Bab
+3 Str
+1 Magic Weapon
+2 Combat School
+/-2 Rage (Class Rage)
+/-2 Rage (Weapon Granted while raging)
-/+ 1-6 (Power attack)


Damage:
Main Hand (Two Attacks at: +16/+14): 4d6 + 9 (+/- 6 Damage to all attacks, but provoke an AoO)

1d6 War Chain
+ 3d6 Rage Dice
+ 3 Str
+ 2 Combat School
+/- 2 Rage (Class Rage)
+/- 2 Rage (Weapon Granted)
(+/-6) Blitz
+/- 2-12 (Power Attack)

Off Hand (Two Attacks at: +16/+14): 1d6 + 9 (+/- 6 Damage to all attacks, but provoke an AoO)

1d6 War Chain or 1d6 Armour Spikes/Razors
+ 1 Str
+ 2 Combat School
+/- 2 Rage (Class Rage)
+/- 2 Rage (Weapon Granted)
(+/-6) Blitz
+/- 2-12 (Power Attack)

[User3]

Ok, I’m putting on my rules hat.

The short answer is “no.”

The long answer is this: activating a magic item and drinking a potion are listed as two separate actions in the PHB, and that tends to confuse people. In fact, under the section about drinking potions, it declares that drinking a potion is, in fact, activating a magic item and it differs only in that it provokes an AoO.

That being said, I don’t really care if a Barb drinks potions in combat, other than its anti-flavor and such a crappy tactic that it should be discouraged.

So the final answer is: Barbs can’t drink potions while Raging.

-Keith, aka "K"