Stunting and Shadowrun

[Lago_AM3P]

Exalted has this system that might be a potentially unbalanced system of metagame where players get bennies for describing their activities in detail. This system is called stunting.

For example, say you're a low-level shadowrunner who's taking on an orc ganger with a baseball bat. Instead of describing your action as 'I attack the orc with the bat', you get some sort of mechanical incentive for describing your action as, 'with a surge of desperate violence, I weave out of the way of the oncoming fist and swing the bat directly towards his scarred mug'.

What's your feelings on this system? And if you think this would be a good idea for Shadowrun, how would you implement it?

[Username17]

If you're in a group who will only get into character and talk shit about their opponents if they get bonuses for doing so, then sure go for it. It's a tough line to walk. On the one hand, people saying "I attack the darkness!" over and over again is boring as hell. And on the other hand, having people who won't shut the fvck up about one of their attacks in the middle of a multiple attack chain and hold the game up can be frustrating.

So you need to remember that mechanical benefits for flavor text will scew things towards he second option naturally, and that might be a problem.

But if people really need the encouragement then throwing someone a die or two won't destroy the game.

---

Of course, my current favorite is to be totally deceitful and simply tell people that you're keeping the descriptions in mind for threshold adjustment - which is something that the player normally doesn't even see. That way, if people are giving you awesome descriptions of their activities you can allow them to succeed on 2 hits instead of 3 and not tell them that this is happening.

-Username17

[Lago_AM3P]

Surely Frank detected my scam for regaining Edge I didn't earn.

Seriously, is Edge supposed to be this easy to replenish in Shadowrun the 4th? The game doesn't go into much detail, but it makes me feel that if I have an Edge stat of 3 and I go hog wild with it (and also don't make attempts to game the system), I should have the opportunity to use it like 5-7 times before the next adventure. This is, of course, assuming that I play a fairly heroic character with lots of personal goals that get in the way or need Shadowrunning. Was this intended, or is my math just wrong?

[Lago_AM3P]

Also, this isn't necessarily an attempt to game the system, but say that a character attempts to keep a reasonable Edge score of, say, 3, but only intend to really rely on it for burning it to save them from certain death.

Every now and then, they really fuck something up and get into a situation where their corpse is just supposed to be shredded cheese. Of course, they burn Edge to miraculously survive it but then pay the (relatively) low karma cost to raise it up to 2 or 3. You can get enough karma to live your life like this in the span of two or three adventures that you don't fuck up. Of course, it stunts your character development, but better than outright dying, right?

Was the game intended to be played like this? I think that even in D&D it'd be pretty unusual for a character through the normal gauntlet of advancing a character from level 1 to 20 get raised more than 3 times. But evading character deletion seems to be an event that should happen ALL THE TIME for a character that wants it so.

[shau]

My group is really unhappy with the way edge works in Shadowrun 4. For one thing we don't think that mooks should have it. Why even have intiative modifiers if everything you fight is spending edge to go first anyway? We also found that it worked best when you used it when you are not supposed to. I mean, it seems like you are supposed to burn edge to make that absolutely amazing shot or survive an explosive, but we all found ourselves burning edge to bluff the guard or pick a lock. It also becomes really good if you can get through a run with only five or six rolls all told, which is possible if you have a really subtle group. Our GM eventually put her foot down when we started burning edge in negotiations with Mr. J.

I'd like to see my group try the stunting rules, just because we are so bonus hungry that every attack would sound like something out of Sailor Moon.

[Lago_AM3P]

We also found that it worked best when you used it when you are not supposed to. I mean, it seems like you are supposed to burn edge to make that absolutely amazing shot or survive an explosive, but we all found ourselves burning edge to bluff the guard or pick a lock.

Or to break the limits of sustaining foci. You might only be able to slap & sustain a Force 3 Combat Sense onto your punk ass, but back that ass up with some Edge and you just might be able to get like, 7 hits.

Though, I'm a bit curious that you don't think that you should use edge to bluff guards or pick locks. That seems like the perfect time to use them; it's way more efficient in Shadowrun to avoid encounters rather than instigate them.

Though I agree with you about the mooks thing. There's nothing stopping some clown from burning all of his edge in one battle or even one combat turn and it seems like they all would want to use it to go first.

I'd like to see my group try the stunting rules, just because we are so bonus hungry that every attack would sound like something out of Sailor Moon.

Well, the Edge rules for Shadowrun the Fourth state that you're supposed to get Edge back for impressive roleplaying, whatever the fuck that's supposed to mean.

Exalted says that if you take the time to describe your actions and use scenery and Wuxia you're supposed to get bonuses comparable to, but not as good as Edge. It's also supposed to be an integral part of the combat system, especially for high-level combat. If you don't have willpower or motes, you die.

[RandomCasualty]

1167144042[/unixtime]]
Or to break the limits of sustaining foci. You might only be able to slap & sustain a Force 3 Combat Sense onto your punk ass, but back that ass up with some Edge and you just might be able to get like, 7 hits.

Though I think this is more a problem with buff spells than with edge. I don't know why buff spells are hit based, they should be totally based on the force of the spell and that's it.

And sustaining foci still seem ungodly powerful, much like the spell locks of older editions.

[User3]

And sustaining foci still seem ungodly powerful, much like the spell locks of older editions.

Unfortunately, running around with sustaining foci all of the time is a huge disadvantage in a game that focuses heavily on stealth and keeping a low profile.

[Catharz]

1167269390[/unixtime]]
Unfortunately, running around with sustaining foci all of the time is a huge disadvantage in a game that focuses heavily on stealth and keeping a low profile.

Until you've Initiated twice.

[shau]

Though, I'm a bit curious that you don't think that you should use edge to bluff guards or pick locks. That seems like the perfect time to use them; it's way more efficient in Shadowrun to avoid encounters rather than instigate them

My objection is more based on how I see edge rather than practicality. It is a very good move in game to use edge to bluff. I just personally think edge is flavored to be the thing you use to escape certain death by a hair's breadth, not the thing you use when you are trying to convince the surly, octogenarian security guard that you really do work in the accounting department. Though I suppose in the right situation it can do both. Tom Cruise doing the whole catching the sweatdrop thing in Mission Impossible could be a good example of burning edge in a stealth situation. I have also had games where edge was used in every single roll. I seriously mean every single roll. When you play four really good infiltrators you can make it with just a few moments of stress where the DM bothers to ask for a roll. My group consisted of a stalker rigger (spies on people with drones), a mage who liked spying from the astral, a hacker who liked to break into private files, and an adept with lots of ranks in the disguise and social powers. We would map out the entire building, then send the adept to collect or kill the target, whichever was necessary. Edge was very effective in our game, but the flavor was lost when it went from being that thing you use in dire straits to that thing you use on every roll.