Another Look: "Prodigious" Skill Uses

[SirWayne]

The name comes from this ancient thread, inspiration for more than a couple changes to the skill system in my latest campaign. Player reaction has mostly been positive (predictably; coupled with the news I was making all skills class skills, the Bard thought Christmas had come early), but there's not really any better place on the Internet to get D&D mechanics feedback than you folks, so I thought I'd post it here, too.

As an overview, it's obvious that the D&D skill system is "broken" (and I don't just mean in the Truenamer sense)-- it doesn't really work except in very ordinary cases, like Jump*, and many skills have no real use to them (like Survival and Decipher Script). Then there's the infamous Diplomacy 50 roll. So the choices are to consolidate skill types (probably a good idea anyway), or add more to them-- and the latter seems more fun, especially since we're also trying to move to a less feat-intensive game (even though I'm also giving players a feat every level).

*Of course, even that's suspect. I don't have a link, but one of my friends told me that a Sage Advice column stated that the bonus speed you get from taking the Run action counted for Jump bonuses from speed, which means that with a good running start, your oxen can jump your wagon across the river, so little Tommy doesn't have to drown when you try to ford it.

Anyway. The system change is to cut down skill bonus types to basically three-- Racial, Synergy, and Enhancement-- and keep them from stacking. So only one +2 synergy bonus applies, and magic items, spells, most class features, etc. stack with your race and size (which don't stack with each other-- no more +8 to Hide from being a Whisper Gnome) but not with other "magic" bonuses, and so on. Predictably, this results in most players having a +15 or so to a few skills at level 2, and then only a slow gain after that, to be punctuated by a few jumps from +10 magic items.

So there's that. The rest of it is the skills section. I apologize for its length and any formatting issues (it's from Word), and look forward to getting some feedback. :]

Note that all skills include their Core uses, and the DCs remain the same unless indicated otherwise. The "Supernatural use" line(s) are only available if the character has the Skill Focus feat in that scale (and some other abilities... I'm probably going to give Monks an ability that allows the "flight" supernatural use of Jump, for example). "Specializations" mean you can spend 1 skill point (or 2, with Spellcraft) to apply all your ranks toward a "separate" use of the same skill, like multiple Perform types. Kind of like how Speak Language used to work (heh). Knowledge types don't have specializations, because PCs actually take those.

The normal uses and restrictions also apply-- if an ability says "as the spell," then it uses the normal casting time and effects (unless stated otherwise), and failing a Climb check still makes you fall, whether you're using it to flip off a wall or to grab onto the ceiling.

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Appraise: You are able to use Identify as the spell to analyze magical items; the process takes 1 hour and requires 25gp worth of alchemical material, against DC 10 + caster level. The DC increases by +10 if you use no alchemic agents, and by +5 to attempt it in 10 minutes instead of 1 hour.
-You can attempt to appraise an object quickly by sight. The normal time is reduced to one standard action, and adds +10 to the DC.
-Appraise opposes Forgery checks used to craft false copies of items. It can be used in place of Search to find traps, hidden compartments, etc. built into other objects rather than into walls, flooring, etc.; the DC is 5 points higher.
-If you exceed the DC on any appraise check by 5, you can estimate the caster level (if a spell effect) or Craft ranks (if an object) of the creator; you can also do this as a normal appraise check (DC 25). The result is +/-2 levels or ranks.
-You can carefully analyze a target for weaknesses, taking a full-round action (DC 20; +5 DC as a standard action, +10 as a move action, or +20 as an immediate action). You reduce a target's AC bonus from armor or natural armor by 1, or reduce a target's highest DR by 1. For every 10 points you exceed the DC, reduce one by an additional 1 point. Only you benefit from this reduction, and only for as long as you continue to focus on the same target.
Supernatural use: You can determine the magical properties of objects in a manner similar to Analyze Dweomer. This takes one minute and requires masterwork appraisal tools worth at least 100gp. The DC is 10 + caster level.
-As a full-round action, you can use Arcane Sight as the spell, focused on one creature within 120'. The DC is 15 + HD; +5 DC to use as a standard action, +10 DC to use as a swift action.

Balance: While fighting defensively, you can attempt to treat yourself as prone to evade ranged attacks. The DC is 20, +5 for each attack after the first targeting you. If you are not fighting defensively, the DC increases by 10.
-You can roll Balance in place of a Str or Dex check to oppose being bullrushed or overrun, as an Immediate action.
-While taking the run action, you can change directions with a turn of up to 45 degrees. The DC is 20, +10 for each additional turn or one 90 degree turn.
-Additional uses of this skill include treating yourself as weightless (able to walk on snow, DC 25), able to walk on any surface (such as thread, DC 30), able to walk on liquids (DC 35), able to walk on dense gasses (DC 40), able to walk on air as per levitate (DC 45), or able to walk on ethereal matter (DC 50).
-Failing any Balance check by 5 or more means that you fall prone, taking damage (if any); failing by 1-4 simply results in your move action ending.
Supernatural use: You can temporarily "balance" yourself in the space where the planes meet, meaning you can gain the benefits (but also any penalties) of that plane's properties. For example, if you balance along the plane Fernia, your Fire-typed effects are empowered, but you take 3d10 fire damage each round and your cold spells are impeded. Balancing in this manner takes a move action at DC 25 (or a Swift action at DC 30); the DC increases by 2 each round, leaving you fatigued for one minute after you stop balancing. If you are affected by an effect that would stop or prevent this ability (such as Dismissal), your balance attempt ends, you are dazed for 1 round, and fatigued (as above).
-The DC to balance on nonsolid surfaces is reduced by 10.

Bluff: When you feint in combat, the target does not add their BAB to the Sense Motive roll to oppose your Bluff. You can also try to feint against a target at range (up to 30' away); this has a -5 penalty.
-You can make a Suggestion as the spell to the target. You take a -10 penalty on your Bluff check, and if successful the target gets a Will save (DC = 10 + 1/2 level + Cha); the target gets no Will save if you take a -30 penalty instead.
-You can attempt to lie despite effects that force you to tell the truth, the DC is the user's caster level (or hit dice) + 10; each extra lie carries a -10 penalty.
Supernatural use: You can attempt to hide your surface thoughts and presence from magic. By taking a minute to concentrate and making a Bluff check, you can attempt to hide or alter your perceived alignment, surface thoughts, presence (such as against Scrying), and so on. Anyone using a divination effect against you must make a caster level check against your Bluff result, with a +5 to the roll. The diviner gets an additional +1 each successive time he attempts to affect you, to a maximum of +20.

Climb: While moving or charging, you can scale a wall as per the Up the Walls feat (if you use it too, your movement along a wall only counts half against your move speed). (DC 10 + 1/each foot scaled, minimum 5 feet)
-While moving or charging, you can bound off a wall to evade attacks. If you use Tumble to move through threatened squares, the DC is reduced by 5 if you succeed on a Climb check (as above). For each 5 points you exceed the Climb DC, you gain a +1 bonus to AC against readied attacks, and attacks of opportunity provoked by movement, until your next turn.
-By adding +10 to the DC, you can stick to a wall you are climbing, requiring only one limb and retaining your Dex bonus to AC.
-A perfectly smooth, flat surface can be climbed at DC 30; a ceiling or overhang with no handholds is DC 35. Both uses add +2 to the DC for each additional round spent climbing.
Supernatural use: You can attempt to Climb out of a spell that would shift your location against your will, such as Plane Shift, as an immediate action. The DC is 15 + caster level, or opposed by Spellcraft (caster's choice).

Concentration: You can suppress the effects of fatigue or sickness for one round, or delay the effects of stunning or dazing until the next round. This takes an immediate action (DC 15, +10 to each additional attempt before resting).
-If you fail a save against a fear effect, you can take a full-round action the following round to attempt to shake it off (effect's DC + 5), or as a swift action (DC + 15). Similarly, if affected by a mind-affecting ability, you can attempt to shrug it off the next round as a full-round action (effect's DC + 20) or as a swift action (effect's DC + 30).
-If you are disabled or dying, you can attempt to use willpower to remain conscious and avoid damage from taking strenuous actions (DC 20, +5 each additional attempt until checks are no longer possible).
-You can still attempt to cast spells with foci or somatic components while grappled, but at a -20 penalty against the attacker's grapple check result.
Supernatural use: You can take your normal allotment of actions while staggered or dying, instead of only one standard action (DC 20 + 5 each round).
-If you are affected by a spell or effect that dealt you damage or bestowed some sort of condition, but which still allowed you to take actions; you can delay the effect for one round (DC 20 + HD or caster level of effect initiator). If the effect would not allow you to take actions, increase the DC by 10.

Craft: When crafting masterwork items or doing other tasks that only involve craftsmanship and not material costs, the Crafter does not need to pay any gold to cover the cost increase; only time. However, any gold or craft points that he does spend on the project proportionately reduces the time required. (The materials cost is assumed to be 20% the base price of an item, not 33%.) Daily Craft results are assumed to be in silver pieces, not copper pieces.
-Mastercrafting counts as crafting a separate item. A +1 masterwork item is DC 20; each additional +1* costs the same amount in gp, double the total masterwork cost so far in time, and adds +5 to the DC. After masterwork +5 (DC 40), each additional plus costs x5 the base amount, and is +10 DC.
-You can repair a crippled construct using this skill. Repairing damage requires a relevant Craft skill and 4 hours of work, and heals damage equal to the Craft result - 10 (or -20 if you rush and attempt to finish the job in one hour). A successful repair check removes any penalties the construct might suffer from Disable Device damage or similar effects.
Supernatural use: You can qualify for and use item creation feats; your caster level equals your Craft ranks - 3.
Specializations: Each grants you the ability to apply your Craft ranks to another crafting skill (such as Pottery or Blacksmithing).
* Masterwork bonuses on weapons can apply to attack rolls (+1, up to 3 times), damage (+1, up to 3 times), durability (+2 hardness, +10 hp), +1 base threat range** (2 slots, can only be taken once), or +1 base critical multiplier (2 slots, can only be taken once). For armor, they can apply toward the armor check penalty (-1), spell failure chance (-5%), speed reduction (+5', up to 2 times), +1 AC (2 slots), or +1/- DR (2 slots).
** Yes, Frank, I know the math isn't right doing it that way. >_>

Decipher Script: When reading a text or listening to another language being spoken, you can attempt to learn that language. The DC to become passably literate in a language is 100, -10 for each day spent in analysis, to DC 50, and then -5 for each day after that. The DC cannot be reduced below 25. If you possess a translation guide of some kind, the DC reductions occur every hour instead of every day.
-You can create a cipher or attempt to crack another's by rolling this skill. Creating a code takes one week (or one day at a -5 penalty or one hour at a -10); cracking one takes one hour (or ten minutes at -5 or one minute at -10), or one week if the first check fails (or one day at -5 or one hour at -10).
-You can use this skill to memorize lines of text or numbers, or even entire books. A simple string of characters is only DC 10, but the DC increases the more complex and intensive the effort is: a simple page or complex string is DC 15, several pages or multiple complex lines is DC 20, several dozen simple pages or one complex page is 25, a hundred pages or several complex pages is DC 30, an entire book or dozen complex pages is DC 35, and a complex tome (such as a spellbook) is DC 40. Each additional separate text you attempt to memorize before resting increases the DC of all checks by a cumulative +10.
-Decipher Script, not UMD, is the skill used to activate magical scrolls, spellbooks, or schemas.
-This skill can be used in place of Forgery to detect forged documents.
-This skill can be used in place of Spellcraft to identify arcane spells.
Supernatural use: If you successfully identify a spell being cast (typically by rolling Spellcraft), you can attempt to disrupt the incantation by rolling Decipher Script against DC 20 + spell level. This is an immediate action. If successful, the caster must make a Concentration check (DC 20 + spell level) or lose the spell. If the Concentration result succeeds but is lower than your Decipher Script result, the spell is cast but delayed until the following round; if higher, the spell is cast as normal. If the caster used Spellcraft to bolster his spell's caster level, you negate that bonus if you beat his roll with Decipher Script.
Specializations: Each specialization grants you fluency and literacy with another classical language, such as Elvish. It takes two specialization slots to become proficient with that language's dialects (such as Drow and Sylvan).

Diplomacy: Shifting another character's mood by one step is generally DC 20, although it can be opposed by Sense Motive (if the target doesn't trust you), Bluff (if the target is trying to mislead you), or Diplomacy (if the target is debating with you). Each additional step, such as from Unfriendly to Indifferent, requires another roll (+10 DC), or grants the subject a +5 bonus to his opposed roll. Most characters require some sort of bribe or incentive to trust you; without such the DC or opposed roll increases by 10.
-Making a deal or haggling with someone without trying to win their favor requires a roll against DC 15 + the character's level (if a group, use the highest level or the leader's level, if present), modified as follows: -5 if the deal is poor or the subject doesn't like you, or +5 if the deal is favorable or the subject is at least friendly toward you. The subject may choose to instead roll Sense Motive, which is an opposed roll using the same modifiers. If you are opposed in attempting to make the deal, add the leader's Cha modifier to the DC.
Supernatural use: You can render a target fanatical, meaning that they take extreme risks to serve you. The DC is an additional +20 beyond making someone Helpful, to a minimum of DC 40 (or a +20 opposed roll).
-If you exceed the needed Diplomacy DC to make a target at least Friendly by 10 or more, the target must make a Will save (10 + 1/2 level + Cha) or be affected as Charm Person. Your speech overcomes language barriers, taking only a -10 penalty instead of no possibility.

Disable Device: You can disable supernatural effects with a variable duration (such as Wall of Force). The DC is 25 + spell level, and takes 1 round per spell level (+10 DC to attempt it in one standard action).
-You can attempt to cripple nonliving constructs and animated objects. Damaging one requires a standard round action and a successful touch attack; if successful, the construct takes damage equal to your Disable Device result - 10 (Fort half, DC 10 + 1/2 your hit dice + Int). You can also attempt to damage its legs (speed reduced by 10', two successes prevents it from running or charging), its arms (taking a -2 penalty on attack and damage rolls using that limb), or its head (taking a -2 penalty on detection and saving throw rolls). These effects increase the time necessary to one full round (or one standard action if you forego dealing any damage).
Supernatural use: You can attempt to disable supernatural effects as they are being invoked. If any effect with a duration is cast within an area you can reach with your base speed, you can attempt to move toward it and disable it as an immediate action (forfeiting your next move action if the effect point is further than 10' away). The DC is equal to 15 + caster level, and typically requires a successful Spellcraft check to identify the effect. Alternately, you can add +5 to the DC to disrupt the effect so that the caster is also affected (unless he beats your check result with a Spellcraft check), or add +10 to end the effect and also attempt to subject the user to it.

Disguise: You can attempt to further alter your perceived height or weight beyond 10%. A change of up to 25% bestows a -10 penalty and a change of up to 50% bestows a -20 penalty.
-As long as the disguise changes only minor details, you can attempt to put one on in one full round instead of several minutes, with a -15 penalty.
-If you have a disguise kit or are using magic, you can make a complete disguise in only 10 minutes, or one minute if you accept a -10 penalty.
-You can attempt to mask the components or displays of a spell effect. This takes a Swift action and forces opponents attempting to use Spellcraft against you to beat your Disguise check instead of the typical DC. You can take a -5 penalty to this check to attempt it as a free action instead.
Supernatural use: You can supernaturally alter your body in minor ways, gaining the ability to use Alter Self, but only to assume the form of a creature with the same type and size category as yours. The DC is 20 + creature's CR, +5 if it has a different subtype or size (within one step of yours); +10 if both. The change takes one minute to perform (or one full round, adding +5 to the DC), and lasts for ten minutes (+2 to the DC for each additional 10 minutes; this must be chosen when you make the check).

Escape Artist: You can attempt to evade effects that bind you to one location (such as resilient sphere), but not those which do so by changing your condition (such as flesh to stone). This takes an immediate action, and is DC 15 + caster level (or hit dice if the effect is nonmagical).
-You can attempt to move normally through effects that would otherwise slow or stop you. If the effect is solid (such as Wall of Thorns), the DC is 40; if it is mostly liquid or dense gas (Solid Fog) the DC is 30; if it is a force effect, the DC is 50. If the effect deals damage, you can add +10 to the DC to take no damage if you are successful.
-You can roll Escape Artist in place of an opposed Grapple check as an Immediate action, or as a standard action if you are already grappled.
Supernatural use: You can slip through spaces too small for even your head to fit, such as through a crack in a wall or through narrow iron bars. The base DC is 25 + the surface's hardness, +2 for each continuous 5 feet of matter you wish to travel through that round (up to half your base speed). If you fail, you are trapped, and take 5d6 damage per 5' you failed by (but at least 5'). You can backtrack (-5 to the DC) or continue, taking the damage each successive round you are stuck moving until you escape (reducing the DC by a further -5 each round) or die.

Forgery: In addition to forging documents, you can create counterfeit copies of other items, such as jewelry or art. This requires a successful Craft check using the relevant skill, and then a Forgery check; you get a +2 synergy bonus to the check if you have 5 ranks in the appropriate Craft or Knowledge skill (typically Nobility and Royalty or History).
-You can attempt to code false information into an otherwise appropriate-looking object. You can include a flaw in a copied item, cause a wizard to memorize an incorrect spell from his spellbook, and so on. This uses the normal forgery rules, except that you must have a copy of or have seen the proper item, and thus you gain no bonus from them. You take a -2 penalty to the check if the changes are minor, or -5 if they substantially alter the item's purpose (such as encoding a scroll of Explosive Runes to appear to be a wanted poster). This check is typically opposed by Decipher Script, Appraise, or Spellcraft, as appropriate.
-You can take a -10 penalty to your forgery check to rush the creation of an item or text, finishing it in half the normal time.
-You can guess at the exact specifications of an item or text if you have no sample or similar work to examine, taking a -20 to the Forgery check.
-You can falsify clues at a crime scene, so that someone using the Investigate feat must exceed your check with his Search roll. You can gain a +2 synergy bonus on this check if you have at 5 ranks in one related skill (such as Knowledge (Local) to frame someone else).
Supernatural use: You can cause nonmagical items or writing to appear to be magical, emulating a spell or effect of your choice (DC 10 + item caster level). This tricks all divination spells except for Legend Lore. If you have the relevant Item Creation feat, such items can actually be magical (though this carries the normal costs in time, components, etc.), and a divination effect attempting to discern the true aura must succeed at a caster level check (DC equal to your Forgery result), otherwise it detects the false aura.
-If you are using guesswork to forge an item, you only take a -10 penalty.

Gather Information: When dealing with a group, you can attempt to find given information more quickly, adding +5 to the DC but getting a result within one hour (or +10 for a result within 10 minutes). You can attempt to avoid suspicion by adding +10 to the DC, or +20 if you are looking for specific information.
-You can find general information about the area by simply eavesdropping on public conversations; this takes 1d4 hours and only determines basic information (DC 10) or somewhat specific news (DC 20).
-You can glean information from hostile or unfriendly targets with a Bluff check followed by a Gather Information check (both opposed by the target's Sense Motive result). You can also obtain basic information by reading a target's lips or body language (DC 25 or opposed by Bluff), this takes one full round but automatically fails if the target does not know.
-You can get a "hunch" about a given bit of information as per Augury if you succeed at a DC 10 check; your result above 10 is added to the base 70% chance of success. Unlike Augury, the "hunch" sees up to one day ahead.
Supernatural use: You can meditate in a place of magical power or personal significance, such as a druidic grove, temple, and so on. This takes one hour and a successful check (DC 20) and provides information about a number of subjects, as per Commune, except as follows. Your supernatural insight does not come from any external source or creature. You are allowed one question, plus one for each five points your check exceeded 20. You can try this once per day.
-If you are subject to a divination effect, you can immediately roll this skill and determine what the effect was (DC 20 + spell level) and who cast it (+10 DC).

Handle Animal: You can also rear or train more unusual creatures. You can rear a magical beast (DC 25 + hit dice) or train one (DC 30 + hit dice); it takes twice as long to rear a magical beast but only half as long to train it further. You can also rear vermin (DC 30 + hit dice) or train them (DC 35 + hit dice); this takes one day for each week it would take with an animal. Other creatures can be reared (DC 35 + hit dice) or trained (DC 40 + hit dice) as well. If the creature is intelligent and is willing to be trained, reduce the DCs by 20.
-You can attempt to hastily train creatures. Reducing the time by one week, from one week to one day, from one day to one hour, and from one hour to one minute, increases the DC by a cumulative +5 (+10 if the creature is exceptionally difficult, or Evil).
-An animal can be trained to Aid Another, to grapple a target, to stalk a target, to hunt for food and return it, or to warn its master of an approaching creature it can sense. Each trick is DC 20 to learn, and may require other tricks first (an animal must be able to attack a target before it can be trained to grapple one).
-You can attempt to communicate with an animal that is at least indifferent to you, as per Speak with Animals, except that you can only acquire basic information. This takes at least one full round and is DC 25 + animal's HD.
-You can attempt to improve an animal's mood toward you with this skill, in place of Diplomacy. (You can still attempt to Intimidate animals as normal.)
Supernatural use: You can form a special bond with a creature you have personally reared, similar to a familiar's bond. However, a bonded animal does not gain improved evasion, the ability to share or deliver spells, any spell resistance, the ability to speak with other animals of its kind, or the ability to be Scried upon, that a normal familiar gains. A reared animal's empathic link only extends to line of sight, not one mile; and it gains mettle instead of evasion.
-You can also attempt to weaken the bond a master has with another bonded companion or familiar. By interacting with the animal and making a handle animal check (opposed by the master's Diplomacy or Handle Animal check, or a level check + Charisma), you temporarily disrupt the bond, causing the master and animal to lose all special abilities derived from it (such as the ability to share spells), except for any Int increase and the ability to communicate with each other. The disruption can be negated if the master can exceed your Handle Animal result (taking one hour, he gains a +5 for every hour spent with the companion without any interference from you). If the master also has Skill Focus for Handle Animal, he gains a +10 on his check. Once the master takes on another familiar or companion, the bond is permanently severed.

Heal: You can perform field treatment on a wounded target, although this requires potions, salve, or at least a healer's kit. You can make a Heal check, and restore an amount of hp equal to your result - 10 as a standard action.
-You can provide long-term care in eight hours instead of one day with a DC 25 check, in one hour with a DC 35 check, or in 10 minutes with a DC 40 check. If you do not have medical supplies and have to improvise, add +5 to the DC. This counts against the normal daily limit for natural healing; each successive time you attempt to heal the same subject, add +10 to the DC and halve the results.
-You can perform additional acts of healing. You can reattach a severed limb (DC 35), treat exhaustion (DC 25, leaving the patient fatigued instead), cure blindness or deafness (DC 30), or remove extraordinary ability damage, drain, or negative levels (DC 30 +5 per point or level, a result of at least 30 will remove one point or level). These feats normally require one hour, but can be sped up as follows: to 10 minutes (+5 DC), to 1 minute (+10 DC), or 1 round (+20 DC). These require the use of an alchemical medical kit, but can be performed with a healer's kit (+5 DC) or with improvised materials (+20 DC).
-You can also cure minor conditions, such as stunning (DC 25), nausea (DC 25, target is sickened), sickness (DC 20), crippling wounds (DC 30), paralysis (DC 35), or fear effects (DC 30, reduces fear by one step). Each such use requires one full round, one standard action (+5 DC), or one swift action (+20 DC).
-You can attempt to raise the dead with immediate treatment, taking a full round action against DC 30 + 1/rounds spent dead, up to one minute. Beyond that, the DC is 40 + 1/minutes spent dead, up to one hour. This requires an alchemical medical kit, but can be attempted with a healer's kit (+5 DC) or improvised materials (+20 DC). If successful, the character is restored to their death threshold +1 hp and stabilized; if the check fails, the character can't be revived without magic.
Supernatural use: You gain a healing pool similar to Lay on Hands, equal to your Heal check result + 10 (you can't take 10 or 20 on this roll), once per day.
-You can cure supernatural ailments, such as petrification (DC 45), sleep or hold effects (DC 25), confusion or fascination (DC 30), crystallization or freezing (DC 40), rot or necrotic blight (DC 45), or charm, or domination (DC 35). These checks take one minute, or one full round action (+5 DC).

Hide: You can attempt to "blend into" a crowd or otherwise visually distracting area. You can roll Hide without the need for cover, but characters using Spot to find you gain a +5 bonus if alert or +10 if specifically looking for you.
-When you leave cover, roll a new Hide check. For each 5 feet you move that round, reduce your result by -2 (-1 if you blend in with your surroundings). If you end your round and are not behind cover, every creature with line of sight to you is allowed to roll Spot checks to spot you. The Hide penalty accumulates until you are once again behind cover or concealment.
-You can tail someone at a distance of at least 60 feet; he rolls Spot once each minute to notice you, and you take a cumulative -5 penalty each minute you are not following him from under cover. Within 60 feet, he can make a Spot check each round. If you are detected, you can roll Bluff (with a -10 penalty and the penalties from this use of Hide applying) to feign innocence.
-You can attempt to "snipe" a creature by taking a move action to hide after attacking, with a -10 penalty (using ranged attacks) or -20 (using melee). Hiding while running bestows a -5 penalty, as does charging (however, if you attempt to hide after the charge attack, you take a -25 penalty).
-When hiding in shadows, you can take a -5 penalty to enable yourself to hide normally from darkvision or the ability to see normally in darkness.
Supernatural use: You can hide even from observers actively looking at you, although this bestows a -10 penalty if you are motionless, or -20 if you took any actions on your turn.
-You can hide from Blindsense, although it adds an additional -5 penalty from moving quickly or attacking. You can also attempt to hide from Blindsight, but in addition to the -5 penalty you take from trying to fool Blindsense, creatures with Blindsight get a +5 bonus on checks to detect you, or +10 if they are intently scanning for you. Creatures with Blindsense or Blindsight can use a Spot, Listen, or level check to detect you, whichever is highest.

Intimidate: You can demoralize a target who is not in melee with you, but he must be able to see or hear you, and you take a -5 penalty.
-You can threaten your own allies, to discourage them from flight or surrender. An affected ally uses your Intimidate result in place of saves against fear. You take a -1 penalty for each ally you include, and a -2 penalty for every 5' they are separated from you. This takes a standard action to initiate and lasts for one minute, or you can try it as an immediate action (-10 penalty).
-You can suppress bonuses to attack or damage that your enemies possess by virtue of supernatural effects or the Perform ability. The DC is 15 + HD or caster level of the initiator of the effect, or opposed by Perform (you take a -1 penalty for each target you attempt to affect, and a -5 penalty to do so as a swift action, rather than a standard action; you gain a +5 bonus if you take a full-round action to intimidate instead).
-In battle, you can cow weaker opponents. All targets must be able to see or hear you, and be at least 2 CR below your level. As a full-round action, you can make a DC 15 check; success inflicts each with a -1 penalty to attack rolls and saves against fear, as per Bane. For every 10 points you exceed the DC, the penalty increases by -1. You can attempt this as a standard action (-2 penalty), move action (-5 penalty), or immediate action (-10 penalty). This check can also be opposed by another's Intimidate or Perform roll.
-You can engage in a duel of wills with another as a full-round action, or an immediate action (taking a -5 penalty). You roll Intimidate (DC 10 + CR) or an opposed roll against Intimidate or Sense Motive. The target can ignore the challenge; if your check succeeds, he takes a -2 penalty to Initiative and actions taken against you (damage rolls, save DCs, etc.). If he submits willingly, you gain a +1 bonus to attack rolls against the target for 1 round per 5 points your check exceeded 15. If he opposes the challenge, the winner gains +1 to attack and damage (and the loser takes a -1 penalty), increasing by 1 for every 5 points separating the results.
Supernatural use: A target whose attitude is shifted by your Intimidate result is so cowed that he no longer becomes hostile after the effects wear off.
-You can intimidate creatures who are immune to fear, but with a -10 penalty.
-If you take a -10 penalty to your Intimidate roll, you can attempt to make a target Frightened instead of Shaken for 1 round.

Jump: The normal jump distances assume that you did not take a running start. If you did, double the result for a long jump and halve the DC for a high jump (with a running start, a jump roll of 10 would clear 20 feet horizontally and 5 feet vertically). Jumps assume a base speed of 30; every difference of 10' adds a bonus or penalty of 5 to all jump rolls (a difference of 5 feet is a change of 2).
-You can leap up on an object or creature up to one size smaller than you as part of a move action at DC 10 (using up 10 feet). Leaping up onto a larger object increases the DC by 10 for every size increase. You can make the leap as a swift action (separate from the normal move action) by adding +10 to the DC.
-When falling, you can roll Jump (DC 10) to count the fall as 10 feet less than normal. Every 10 points your result exceeds the DC, reduce the fall by an additional 10 feet. If you combine Jump with another ability to reduce falling damage (such as Slow Fall or a tumble check), add +10 to the DC.
-You can make a diving lunge at a target too far to reach normally. If you take a charge or withdraw action to close with an opponent, but can't reach, you can roll Jump and add the result - 10 in feet, forfeiting any advantages to the charge (such as the +2 bonus to hit, or charge-based feats) but moving the additional distance, up to 5' beyond the target. If you are close enough to attack, you may do so. After the check, successful or not, you end up prone in your new space.
Supernatural use: When you make a jump check as part of movement, you gain a flight speed equal to your base speed + your jump result, round to 5, if you succeed at a DC 15 check. Your maneuverability class is treated as clumsy, except that you cannot change directions at all once you roll your check, and thus you have no penalties for losing speed or minimum distances for climbing, turning, etc. This essentially works by "jumping" off the air, and thus can also be used with effects that grant a fly speed but normally require you to land, such as some soulmelds or Raptoran flight. Each round you spend without landing lowers your next round's Jump check by 5; if you are damaged, you must immediately make another check at -10 or fall. Once you fail the DC 15 check, you can make no additional attempts until you land (you begin falling next round if still in the air).

Knowledge: You can lecture about subjects in your field of knowledge, gaining gp per week of employ as per Profession (if you have a profession in a related field, such as being a sage, you can profit from both skills).
-You can use your knowledge to help see through disguises or resist illusions, if they pertain to your field. As a move action (DC 15), you grant yourself and allies within 30' of you a bonus of +1 on Spot checks and Will saves against those abilities, +1 for every 10 points you exceed the DC (+5 DC to do so as an immediate action). Conversely, you can do the same to make disguises or illusions harder to resist (+1 to Spot or save DCs); this increases the DC by 5.
-You can attempt to gain bonuses against a specific individual by carefully studying them, and making a Knowledge check (based on that creature's type), DC 10 + CR. This check normally takes one day, or 8 hours (+5 DC) or 1 hour (+10 DC) or 1 minute (+20 DC). You gain a +1 favored enemy bonus and +1 to attack rolls against that target, +1 for each 10 points your result exceeds the DC.
-Succeeding at a knowledge check grants you a +2 synergy bonus to the next skill check you roll, as long as it pertains to that field of knowledge. If you didn't make a knowledge check, you can roll one (DC 20), once per minute.
Supernatural use: You can attempt to recall information within 1 minute of a failed knowledge check as a full-round action. The DC remains the same, but you automatically take 10 on this roll.
-When puzzled by a situation, you can attempt to recall a mnemonic device to grant you special insight. This works as per Divination, except that instead of a chance of failure, you must roll a Knowledge check (DC 20, +10 each additional attempt before resting) to gain any benefit.

Listen: You can take a full-round action to listen for the slightest noises, granting you Tremorsense within a range equal to your Listen check result. The DC is 25; with a -10 penalty for a move action, or -20 as an immediate action.
-You can sense which square an invisible or hidden creature is in (DC 20 if it's active, 30 if it's motionless, or +10 DC if opposed by Move Silently), but it still has total concealment with regard to you.
-If you exceed the necessary DC to detect a creature by 10, its concealment with regard to you is reduced by one step (from total to normal, for example); if you exceed the DC by 20, you ignore any miss chance from concealment. You can add +10 DC to attempt this as an immediate action.
-You can Listen in place of Sense Motive to oppose Bluff checks, although at a -10 penalty. You can also automatically see through illusions with auditory components without having to roll a Will save (DC 25, or 15 + caster level).
-When you read lips using the Spot skill, you can roll Listen (DC 30) to echo the language used precisely enough for another to translate it.
Supernatural use: You can hear noises despite the presence of a Silence spell, though this penalizes your Listen checks by -10.
-When you roll Listen to gain tremorsense, you can instead gain touchsight. Touchsight works as blindsight, except that you must have line of effect to something in order to sense it, and it allows you to read, sense contrasts in color or texture, etc. Such feats take twice as long as normal and bestow a -10 penalty (or are DC 25 if they normally have no set DC).

Move Silently: You can attempt to hide yourself from blindsense or tremorsense, or other senses that could otherwise detect you. You take a -5 penalty on your check to do so, and double any penalties from noisy terrain you might cross over.
-You can roll Move Silently to oppose Listen, Search, or Spot checks to see through concealment you might have.
-You can attempt to smuggle a group past possible onlookers. You must first roll Hide with all the usual modifiers, and then Move Silently, taking a -5 penalty for every additional creature you attempt to move with you. Penalties to move faster than normal while escorting a group are doubled.
Supernatural use: You can try to mask your presence from blindsight or touchsight, although such creatures get a +5 bonus on checks to detect you, or +10 if they are intently looking for you; in addition to the -5 penalty you take from trying to fool other senses. Creatures with blindsight or touchsight can use a Spot, Listen, or level check to detect you, whichever is highest.
-You can attempt to mask sound that you might make with another, occurring naturally (such as by using ventriloquism) or a sound that you create, as per Ghost Sound, except that it lasts for 1 round, and is a non-magical effect that is not an illusion, and requires a listener to make a will save (DC 10 + 1/2 HD + Wis) before being allowed to roll Listen to detect you. This bestows a -5 penalty on your check and requires another move action (or a swift action, at a -10 penalty).

Open Lock: You can design locks with mechanisms and gimmicks that frustrate traditional tools. Instead of using the lock quality's standard DC, replace it with an Open Lock check (taking 20); you can only apply your base ranks and Int. Modifying an existing lock requires you to pay 1/3 its cost in gp again, but if you craft the lock yourself, there is no cost increase.
-You can open a lock as a standard action (+2 DC), move action (+5 DC), or immediate action (+10 DC).
-You can unlock portals or undo seals on magical items (usually schema). The DC is 10 + the object's caster level.
-You can add +10 to the DC to add some sort of switch or trick that allows you to immediately unlock the lock once more, and it otherwise functions normally.
Supernatural use: You can "unlock" magical seals on reality and to the planes. You can use dimension door (DC 25), teleport (DC 30), plane shift (DC 35), or gate (DC 40), as a full-round action (+5 to the DC to take a move action, +10 for a swift action). The DC increases by 5 each additional attempt in the same hour. You must still have a focusing rod to use plane shift or gate.
-You can unseal the effects binding magic to reality, as per mage's disjunction, except that it only affects a touched creature, effect, or object; and permanent effects or magic items are only suppressed for 1 minute. The DC is 15 + HD or caster level, requires a touch attack, and allows a Will save to negate the effect (the DC is 10 + 1/2 your HD + your Cha). You can attempt this once per minute. Failure deals you damage equal to the effect's caster level or HD, or no damage if you failed because the target saved.

Perform: You can inspire allies in battle, granting them a bonus on attack rolls equal to your Cha, under specific conditions (such as "When flanking an enemy," "when attacking a certain type and subtype of enemy," "when making readied attacks," etc.), which must be chosen when you roll Perform. The DC is 10, +1 for each affected ally, and increases by 5 each round. It takes a swift action to initiate and maintain the effect each round. You are fatigued for one minute after the Performance ends.
-You can remove one level of fear from an ally who has been demoralized by a fear effect (the DC is the effect's DC +5) or an intimidate check (DC equals the Intimidate result). This takes a move action, or a swift action (+5 DC).
-You can provide the benefits of Aiding Another to any ally who can see and hear you, and you don't need to make the required DC 10 roll. This is DC 20 to do so as a standard action, DC 25 as a move action, DC 30 as a swift action, or DC 35 as an immediate action. You can use this same ability to distract and penalize an enemy by -2 to his next action, although the target can choose to roll Concentration to oppose your Perform result instead.
Supernatural use: Your performances can unlock the hidden potential in your allies, granting them a bonus to all ability scores equal to your Cha bonus. The DC is 20, +2 for each affected ally, and increases by +5 each round. This takes a standard action to initiate, a swift action to maintain each round, and leaves you exhausted for one round (then fatigued for one minute) afterward.
-Your performances can even make up for dramatic failure. If an ally fails a roll with immediately dangerous consequences (such as a Balance check or fumbled attack roll) you can roll Perform against the DC of his task +5, as an immediate action; this allows the ally to make a reroll. Alternately, you can double the result of a single action point roll if an ally is in immediate danger. (DC 20, +10 each successive time the same day.)
Specializations: Each grants you another type of performance (such as Pipes).

Profession: You can run your own business. Using the simplified rules, you may roll Profession each month, gaining a +1 bonus for every 5 ranks you have in each secondary skill, up to two (such as Perform and Tumble if you own a circus troupe), +1 or -1 for every city size greater or smaller than a Town, +2 if you belong to or own a related guild, and -5 if you don't spend at least 8 hours a week assisting the business. A typical business makes gp equal to the result - 20 * 20 gp. A low-risk business adds +2 to the roll but only makes 5 gp per point. A high-risk business subtracts 5 from the roll but gains 50 gp per point. You may only take 20 if the business is low-risk, and must roll if it is high-risk.***
-When attempting to perform tasks related to your job (such as identifying the age and place of origin of a tome (Bookbinding)), roll Profession (DC 15) to gain a +1 bonus, +1 for every 10 points you exceed the DC.
-You treat objects and tools used in your business as improved weapons you are proficient with, such as belaying pins (Sailor).
-For every 5 ranks you have in your primary profession (the highest modifier; you can only have one) you gain a +2 synergy bonus to any other skill.
Supernatural use: You can take on an "apprentice," training another character to gain a measure of your skill. If successful, the character's effective level is increased, gaining a +1 bonus to all rolls and 5 temporary hp per level increase, and maximum skill ranks in your Profession skill and in one other of your choosing (that the target possesses). Once the benefit expires, the character suffers 2 negative levels for 8 hours (if this would reduce his level below 1, he stays at 1st level but is exhausted for 8 hours instead). This takes one hour of training, and the DC is 10 + 5 for every positive level you wish to grant, up to your level - 2. You can perform this training in ten minutes (+5 DC), or one full round (+10 DC), and it lasts for 1 hour, +2 DC for every additional hour. You can perform this once per day, and only with a willing ally.
-You can also drill a larger group into a semblance of skill. If you have Leadership, this applies to all your followers; otherwise you are limited to 5 subjects per rank. The DC is 20, +2 per highest level of the group; success grants all those affected with +1 positive level. For every 10 points you exceed the DC, you grant them another positive level (up to double their base HD).
Specializations: Each grants you skill with another profession (such as Sailor).
*** If I had a more serious group, I'd be using the rules from the Dungeonomicon [that was it, right?] since they were awesome; but the above is really about all the effort my group plans on putting into it anyway. If even then, I think everybody's a vagabond of some kind....

Ride: If your mount is attacked while you are fighting defensively, you can roll a Ride check in place of its AC to negate the attack (if you are not fighting defensively, you take a -5 penalty). If your result is higher than the mount's AC, but still lower than the attack roll; you can choose to take the hit in place of your mount. Each additional attempt in the same round carries a -10 penalty.
-You can attack or cast spells as normal while using your mount for cover (DC 40), or guide mounts not trained for warfare in battle as a free action (DC 30).
-You can stand on your mount's back to take actions normally (DC 35).
-You can apply the Aid Another and attack bonus uses of Perform to your mount (and only your mount), using the Ride skill in place of Perform. When you use aid another, you may increase the bonus by +1 for every 10 points you exceed the DC. You can only attempt this once per minute (a second attempt can succeed, but the mount is fatigued for 1 hour).
-When hustling or performing a forced march while mounted, you can roll Ride in place of your mount's Con check (even if it doesn't get one). The DC is 20 + the damage it would have taken. Each additional hour you take before resting requires another check, and the DC increases by a cumulative +10.
Supernatural use: You can treat a mount you have ridden exclusively for at least one month as your trusted Companion (as the feat). This check is DC 40 + HD, -5 for each additional month you have ridden that mount and only that mount regularly; and takes one day. Once the bond is established, you need not refrain from using other mounts; but only one can be your companion at a time.
-You can cheer and encourage your mount to keep fighting. A successful DC 10 check grants it fast healing 1 for 1 minute. For every 10 points you exceed the DC, the fast healing rate improves by 1. This normally takes a standard action, a move action (+5 DC), or a swift action (+10).

Search: You can search a 5'x5' square or a volume of goods 5' on a side as a standard action (-2 penalty), a move action (-5), or a swift action (-10). You can also search a broader area; each additional 5' plane (such as a wall or floor) bestows a -2 penalty; each 5'x5' cube bestows a -5 penalty.
-If analyzing an object or terrain affected by an illusion, such as hallucinatory terrain, you can bypass the illusion without having to interact with it or roll a Will save (DC 30, or 20 + caster level).
-You can use Search instead of Spellcraft to identify permanent Abjurations.
-If witnessing a creature who has a miss chance from a supernatural effect of some kind (such as blink), you can carefully analyze it as a full-round action (DC 25, or 15 + caster level), or a standard action (+5 DC), move action (+10 DC), or immediate action (+20 DC). If successful, you ignore the effect for 1 minute.
-You can find residual traces of magical effects, allowing you to use Spellcraft to identify the spells cast in the area. The Search DC to find the magical traces is 20, +5 for each day that has elapsed (up to 5 days). The normal Search rules to examine a larger area faster apply to this check as well.
Supernatural use: Choose one detect spell (of the divination school); you can cast it as a spell-like ability if you succeed at a DC 20 + spell level check. Each additional attempt you make before resting increases the DC by 5. If you spend at least 1 hour focusing on another type of detect ability, you can change to using that one instead if you make a DC 30 + spell level roll.
-You can detect secret doors by passing within 5' of them as an elf can.
-You can focus your search on specific object or item (such as a door or bookcase) if a previous Search check failed and you have reason to suspect it hides something. You may roll Search again, with a +5 bonus if you perform the check within 1 minute of the previous attempt (meaning you can't take 20).

Sense Motive: You can assess an opponent's fighting power, taking a standard action (DC 15 + CR, or opposed by bluff; -5 penalty to attempt as a swift action). If successful, you can determine if the target's CR is equal to yours, 1-3 levels different, or 4 or more levels away. You can also attempt to discern more exact information: +5 DC to determine his highest skill, and +10 to estimate the damage of his primary attack. If you fail by 5 or more, your result is at least one category off or misleading. You can only read an opponent once in a combat.
-You can roll Sense Motive to oppose an opponent's attempt to use Tumble to avoid attacks of opportunity when they move adjacent to your square.
-You can attempt to guess what a target's planned action is, and what area or targets it might affect. This takes a Swift action at DC 15 + CR, +5 DC if attempted as a free action, and +5 DC if you haven't already assessed the target.
Supernatural use: Once per hour, you can attempt to learn one aspect of a subject's alignment after one minute of studying the target and making a DC 25 roll. To determine both aspects of alignment, the DC is 35. Add +5 to the DC to make the check as a standard action. (If the target is using Bluff to shield his alignment, add these DC modifiers, if any, to his opposed roll.)
-You can sense a target's feelings (as with Detect Thoughts); the DC is 20 + CR and takes 1 minute (or 30 + CR to attempt it as a standard action). The target gets no Will save, but Skill Focus (Bluff) allows an opposed roll.

Sleight of Hand: You can roll Sleight of Hand instead of Bluff to make a feint attack, as long as you attack with a weapon you have just drawn from hiding (opposed by Spot or Sense Motive, target's choice). You can draw a weapon in the normal time (typically a move action) with a DC 20 check.
-You can roll Sleight of Hand to oppose a disarm or sunder attack as an immediate action (taking a -4 penalty to the roll, or -8 against a heavy weapon).
-When you palm or steal an object, the DC is based on its size. To steal an item four or more size categories smaller than you, the DC is 10. The DC increases by 5 each additional size increase, up to one size larger than you. Each increase grants a +2 on opposed Spot checks to those observing you.
-You can steal an object as a free action instead of a standard action at a -10 penalty. Each additional object you steal as a free action that round grants a cumulative -5 penalty. If you are Spotted attempting to palm an object, creatures adjacent to you can restrain you (no action needed unless you resist, which initiates combat).
-You can perform stage magic. A typical example includes making an object or creature of your size or smaller "disappear" (DC 40, -5 for each size category smaller than you, -10 if you have distracting props or other tools) up to 10' away (+5 DC for each additional 5 feet), allowing you to roll Hide to determine how well the object or creature is hidden. This takes a full round action, +5 DC as a standard action.
Supernatural use: You can steal objects larger than one size category bigger than you (the DC increases by +5 for each step), and hide objects on your person even if they are larger than one or more sizes smaller than you. You take a -5 penalty on the roll for each size category greater than one size smaller.
-Your tricks are so convincing that targets can be misled into seeing a different result of your actions, as per Silent Image affecting those observing you. This requires a move action (adding +5 to the DC) or a swift action (adding +10), and targets are allowed a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 HD + Dex). You can perform such a trick, which does not count as an illusion or magic, once per minute.

Spellcraft: You can use this skill to Read Magic as the spell (DC 20). If you use it to read symbol spells and the like, add the spell level to the DC.
-You can bolster a spell effect you cast through various means (such as drawing a sigil in the air). This takes a swift action, DC 20 + spell level, and raises the DC of opposed checks to dispel or counterspell the effect by +1, +1 for every 10 points you exceed the DC. If you fail, the spell is cast at 1/2 caster level.
-You can identify potions in one round or create a magic circle diagram in one minute (+10 DC). You can ready your spells in 10 minutes instead of one hour (DC 20), in one minute (DC 30), or in one full round (DC 50).
-If you are affected by a supernatural effect, you can use this skill to determine what it was (DC 25 + spell level), who cast it (+10 DC), or from where (+5).
-If you are subjected to a metamagic spell effect, and you possess that metamagic feat; you can attempt to negate the bonuses that spell gained from metamagic. You must roll Spellcraft (DC 25 + adjusted spell level), and then succeed at an opposed caster level check. This forfeits your move action next round as well as your immediate action, unless you succeed with a -10 penalty.
Supernatural use: When you bolster a spell effect, you increase its total caster level for all purposes.
-You can cast a quickened spell as an immediate action (DC 20 + spell level).
-If you witness a spell being cast, and identify the spell; you can take an immediate action to ward yourself against it (DC 20 + spell level), gaining a +1 bonus to saves, touch AC, SR, and effective level, +1 for every 10 points your result exceeds the DC. This requires you to be able to gesture and speak freely.
Specialization: Spellcraft is actually three different skills: it, Psicraft, and Martial Lore, and any can be chosen as the "base" skill. It takes 2 specialization slots to learn one of the others.

Spot: Spot penalties are graduated based on size, taking a -1 penalty on Spot checks per 30' per size category, beginning with Fine (up to only taking a -1 penalty per 240' to see a colossal object or creature). Tactical distance thus begins at 300'.
-You can take a full-round action to sense vibrations and signals, granting you Blindsense within a range equal to your Spot check result. The DC is 30; taking a -10 penalty to try it as a move action, or -20 as an immediate action.
-You can sense which square an invisible or hidden creature is in (DC 20 if it's active, 30 if it's motionless, 40 if an object or nonliving creature; or +10 DC if opposed by Move Silently), but it still has total concealment with regard to you.
-If you exceed the necessary DC to detect a creature by 10, its concealment with regard to you is reduced by one step (from total to normal, for example); if you exceed the DC by 20, you ignore any miss chance from concealment. You can add +10 DC to attempt this as an immediate action.
-You can automatically see through illusions with only visual traits (such as mirror image) by making a DC 30 check, or against 20 + caster level.
Supernatural abilities: You can see normally in darkness as per Darkvision with a DC 25 check; it lasts until lighting conditions change, and you still risk light blindness if suddenly exposed to light. If you have darkvision, including this use of Spot, you can take a -10 penalty to all Spot checks to see in magical darkness as though it was normal darkness.
-When you roll Spot to gain blindsense, you instead gain blindsight.

Survival: If you are poisoned, you can roll Survival in place of your save against secondary damage (poison's save DC + 5). If you take a full-round action to treat yourself the round after you are poisoned, you can restore initial ability damage as well (poison's save DC + 15).
-If you are dying, you can roll Survival (DC 15, +10 each additional attempt before resting) in place of your 10% stabilize chance.
-You can brace yourself against obvious attacks. As an immediate action, you gain temporary hp equal to your Survival result -20 against the next damage you suffer, within 1 round. You can do this once per day per 5 ranks.
-When you are prepared for severe weather, you can grant your allies energy resistance 1 (all types) per every 5 points your Survival result exceeds DC 15.
Supernatural use: Through biofeedback, you can ignore crippling or bleeding wounds (such as a penalty to speed inflicted by maneuvers or caltrop wounds); DC 20 + 5 each additional round. Also, you can make a DC 10 check to gain DR +2/-, which works for a number of hp equal to your Survival result -10; this can be performed once each 8 hours.
-You can Track creatures hidden with Pass Without Trace and similar abilities, but at a -20 penalty.

Swim: You can push yourself to swim faster than usual, moving up to half your speed as a move action (-5 penalty) or your full speed (-10 penalty).
-When fighting underwater, you can roll Swim to negate the -2 penalty to attacking with slashing or bludgeoning weapons (DC 25), and deal full rather than half damage (DC 30); you take a -2 penalty for each successive attack, and automatically miss if you fail. You can also try to make a 5' step underwater (DC 30); failure means that you expend a move action to swim that far.
-You can roll Swim with a -5 penalty in place of your usual AC to avoid attacks from creatures outside the water; each additional attack treats your result as -2 less. If the attacker is also in the water, and you are using Swim in place of AC, he gains a +5 bonus to hit you.
-You can roll Swim in place of a saving through against a water-based spell (such as Tidal Surge). Whether successful or not, you end up prone in your space and fatigued for 1 round afterward.
Supernatural use: You gain a Swim speed equal to your check result + 10 (round to 5), but you don't get the usual bonus to Swim checks this provides.
-You can swim against rapids (typically DC 25-30), tidal waves (DC 35-40), or even up waterfalls (DC 50). In stormy weather, heavy rain, or fog, you can "swim" through the air, gaining the ability to Fly as per Jump (except that you use Swim checks instead, and automatically fail once the weather becomes dry).

Tumble: When falling, you can roll Tumble (DC 10) to count the fall as 10 feet less than normal. Every 10 points your result exceeds the DC, reduce the fall by an additional 10 feet.
-You can spring up an enclosed area by bounding up vertical surfaces. You can move a total distance up to your Tumble result -10 in feet (round to 5), as long as the surfaces are within 5' of each other. If they are further apart than that, you must make Jump checks to bounce between them (halving your result before determining vertical and horizontal distance); failure means that you fall. This normally takes a move action. You can combine it with a move action, adding your base speed to the Tumble result (DC 30).
-If you are prone, you can attempt to kip up to your feet as a swift action (DC 20), or as a free action that prevents attacks of opportunity (DC 30). Failure means you take 1d6 subdual damage and remain prone.
-When fighting defensively or using Expertise, you can take a move action (DC 25, normal penalties for moving while tumbling apply) to acrobatically dodge attacks, granting you +1 to AC and an additional +1 every 10 points you exceed the DC. An enemy who successfully opposes your Tumble result with a Sense Motive check also ignores this AC bonus.
-If you move an opponent on your turn (such as with a Bull Rush), you can Tumble afterward, moving a distance up to your result -10 in feet (round to 5).
Supernatural use: You are agile enough to attempt to dodge magic. While fighting defensively, you can roll Tumble (DC = 10 + caster level); if successful, you apply your AC bonus from Tumble to your saves against that effect. The DC increases by 5 each time you attempt it in the same hour, and by +10 if you are not fighting defensively.
-When you take a miscellaneous 5' step, you take a 10' step instead (DC 30).

Use Magic Device: When you activate a level-dependant item (such as a Wand of Fireball), your effective caster level is your check result - 20. This can't exceed the item's created caster level. A result of zero or less is a failure; a result of -5 or less results in a mishap.
-Activating an item blindly is now DC 15 + caster level; you get a +1 bonus for each prior success. Once you succeed automatically, you no longer need to roll.
-You can attempt to spark an effect from the last of an item's resi

[AlphaNerd]

That is a lot to read, and I've only really started. But, it's always striked me as strange that DCs scale as +spell level not +2*spell level. Are higher level magics supposed to be easier for same-level rogues to disarm?

[SirWayne]

It is, but thanks for doing so; I appreciate it.

Generally, when the DC is based on spell level, the base DC is higher than usual (25, for Disable Device's case), and there's often some other sort of restriction to it (like time-- the DC is actually effectively 35, because taking 7 rounds to disable a Forcecage in battle isn't really feasible, and taking 20 takes proportionately longer). But that's a good point, spell level * 2 would probably be better.

[shau]

I have not really had a great chance to look at this either. I would really have to play test it know how it works, but here are some initial impressions.

Anyway. The system change is to cut down skill bonus types to basically three-- Racial, Synergy, and Enhancement-- and keep them from stacking. So only one +2 synergy bonus applies, and magic items, spells, most class features, etc. stack with your race and size (which don't stack with each other-- no more +8 to Hide from being a Whisper Gnome) but not with other "magic" bonuses, and so on. Predictably, this results in most players having a +15 or so to a few skills at level 2, and then only a slow gain after that, to be punctuated by a few jumps from +10 magic items.

I am not sure how this will work. If I am small sized I can't add my racial bonus to my size bonus, because the larger just overwrites the smaller. If I am large sized can I negate my hide penalty with a racial hide bonus? It seems like as you have it written here I could.

There are a lot of strange bonuses that can be added to skill. Offhand, what type of bonus does the circumstance bonus from masterwork tools become? Would it be racial?

The "Supernatural use" line(s) are only available if the character has the Skill Focus feat in that scale (and some other abilities... I'm probably going to give Monks an ability that allows the "flight" supernatural use of Jump, for example).

I am not sure you want to do this. Maybe in the game you are running where players get a feat every level this will work, but in a normal game players run around with the prospect of getting seven feats their whole life, and then only if the game goes all the way to level 18. Right now, a rogue will have to take five feats to get the maximum use out of his hide, move silently, spot, search, and disable device skills. That is the majority of his feats and we have not even touched the social ones. He also would have to be level 12.


Now let’s look at the new uses for the skills. I really like mounted warriors, so I focused on handle animal and ride, which are the skills I have used extensively.

You can also rear or train more unusual creatures. You can rear a magical beast (DC 25 + hit dice) or train one (DC 30 + hit dice); it takes twice as long to rear a magical beast but only half as long to train it further. You can also rear vermin (DC 30 + hit dice) or train them (DC 35 + hit dice); this takes one day for each week it would take with an animal. Other creatures can be reared (DC 35 + hit dice) or trained (DC 40 + hit dice) as well. If the creature is intelligent and is willing to be trained, reduce the DCs by 20.

Uh, you already can do this and it is actually easier by core rules. You can apply the handle animal skill to non-animals with an int score of 1 or 2 by increasing the DC of the use by 5. Training vermin is new, but has a lot of rule problem. Vermin are mindless, which means they cannot really be taught anything. Their int score of - means they can never be taught a trick. On the other hand, I know a lot of books have trained spiders and stuff. If you want to make vermin trainable, you need to include rules for how it is possible, and how many tricks they can learn. I am not sure you want to include the part about intelligent creatures. As you have written it, rearing a willing griffon is DC 5 plus HD and training one is DC 10 plus HD. That is easier to do than with normal animals, meaning that every powergamer will want to focus on training smart magical beasts rather than animals. There is also an ethical issue attached to making a sapient creature do tricks like come, stay, roll over, etc.

I am not sure what you mean by train an animal. Do you train the animal for a purpose, teach it a trick, or something else.

Edit: Now it looks like you are basing this off the epic uses of handle animal. WotC uses the words teach and train interchangeably so I guess they mean teaching the animal tricks or training it for a purpose. What really baffles me about this is that the DC for training is consistently higher than the DC for rearing. Considering the only purpose of rearing an animal is to be able to teach it tricks, I do not know why you would bother rearing anything you can’t train, making the effective rear DC the same as the train DC. I mean, you could rear something you could not train, but it would not be able to do anything. It would be like building a golem you could not command.

-You can attempt to hastily train creatures. Reducing the time by one week, from one week to one day, from one day to one hour, and from one hour to one minute, increases the DC by a cumulative +5 (+10 if the creature is exceptionally difficult, or Evil).

This seems useful and balanced

-An animal can be trained to Aid Another, to grapple a target, to stalk a target, to hunt for food and return it, or to warn its master of an approaching creature it can sense. Each trick is DC 20 to learn, and may require other tricks first (an animal must be able to attack a target before it can be trained to grapple one).

I am pretty sure that the stalk and hunting for food options already exists. Almost positive. The grapple and warn thing are tricks that my group always assumed animals just knew when to do. The aid another thing sounds cool.

-You can attempt to communicate with an animal that is at least indifferent to you, as per Speak with Animals, except that you can only acquire basic information. This takes at least one full round and is DC 25 + animal's HD.

Cool, but it is just a first level spell (that you probably already have) with more limitations upon it, so it is mostly just flavor ability.

-You can attempt to improve an animal's mood toward you with this skill, in place of Diplomacy. (You can still attempt to Intimidate animals as normal.)

That’s nice, but I really have no idea why I would want or need to improve my domesticated or reared animal’s mood.

Supernatural use: You can form a special bond with a creature you have personally reared, similar to a familiar's bond. However, a bonded animal does not gain improved evasion, the ability to share or deliver spells, any spell resistance, the ability to speak with other animals of its kind, or the ability to be Scried upon, that a normal familiar gains. A reared animal's empathic link only extends to line of sight, not one mile; and it gains mettle instead of evasion.

I think this would be easier if you just said that you gain an empathetic link with animals you have reared and the animal also gains mettle. This is a really cool ability I would love to have, but mostly for flavor reasons.

-You can also attempt to weaken the bond a master has with another bonded companion or familiar. By interacting with the animal and making a handle animal check (opposed by the master's Diplomacy or Handle Animal check, or a level check + Charisma), you temporarily disrupt the bond, causing the master and animal to lose all special abilities derived from it (such as the ability to share spells), except for any Int increase and the ability to communicate with each other. The disruption can be negated if the master can exceed your Handle Animal result (taking one hour, he gains a +5 for every hour spent with the companion without any interference from you). If the master also has Skill Focus for Handle Animal, he gains a +10 on his check. Once the master takes on another familiar or companion, the bond is permanently severed.

I can’t imagine anyone using the skill in this way. It just is not very useful.

Moving on to ride. I can see that you took a lot from the epic uses of ride. Unfortunately, ride’s epic uses suck. You did lower the DC, but all of the abilities are really worthless.

Ride: If your mount is attacked while you are fighting defensively, you can roll a Ride check in place of its AC to negate the attack (if you are not fighting defensively, you take a -5 penalty). If your result is higher than the mount's AC, but still lower than the attack roll; you can choose to take the hit in place of your mount. Each additional attempt in the same round carries a -10 penalty.

Okay, so basically you get the mounted combat feat for free (this is better actually, multiple uses). That’s cool. You should include how you want the skill and the feat to interact.

-You can attack or cast spells as normal while using your mount for cover (DC 40),

Worthless. It is DC 15 to use your mount as cover and it requires no action. The game does not say what the player has to do to get back to using their mount normally. The same check and no action seems to be the most logical, since you are just doing the reverse of what you did a second ago. Worse case scenario you have to remount the thing, which is a move action or can be done as a free action with a DC 20 check. So you can totally do all your attacking and still get the defensive benefits of cover already. At least you are not asking for a DC 60 check.

or guide mounts not trained for warfare in battle as a free action (DC 30).

Worthless. By the time you can make a DC 30 check, you had better have a mount trained for warfare, not a light horse or something. At least you lowered the check by 20.

-You can stand on your mount's back to take actions normally (DC 35).

I have no idea what this is supposed to do. No idea at all.

-You can apply the Aid Another and attack bonus uses of Perform to your mount (and only your mount), using the Ride skill in place of Perform. When you use aid another, you may increase the bonus by +1 for every 10 points you exceed the DC. You can only attempt this once per minute (a second attempt can succeed, but the mount is fatigued for 1 hour).

Cool. Most mounted chargers are not really doing anything with their move actions anyway.

-When hustling or performing a forced march while mounted, you can roll Ride in place of your mount's Con check (even if it doesn't get one). The DC is 20 + the damage it would have taken. Each additional hour you take before resting requires another check, and the DC increases by a cumulative +10.

Worthless. I don’t think I have ever really used the overland movement rules. By the time you can really get moving with this the party will probably be relying on teleport or flying or something,

Supernatural use: You can treat a mount you have ridden exclusively for at least one month as your trusted Companion (as the feat). This check is DC 40 + HD, -5 for each additional month you have ridden that mount and only that mount regularly; and takes one day. Once the bond is established, you need not refrain from using other mounts; but only one can be your companion at a time.

I am not familiar with the trusted Companion feat. This does sound cool, but possibly exploitive. As written, it is a very good idea to show up with a backstory that involves riding a chaos roc for the last six years.

-You can cheer and encourage your mount to keep fighting. A successful DC 10 check grants it fast healing 1 for 1 minute. For every 10 points you exceed the DC, the fast healing rate improves by 1. This normally takes a standard action, a move action (+5 DC), or a swift action (+10).

Nice enough. I really do not think it will see any in combat use, but this means that the mount will always be healed to full health between combats. A person looking to get as much use out of this as possible will pick a small race and mount all their party members in order to heal them, which is probably not what you intended but is absolutely hilarious.

Here are the impressions that stuck with me from the rest of the stuff I read.

Balance: I am not familiar with the other planes really, but the Planar Shepard is a class that specializes in using their effects and it is the consensus of everyone that it is totally broken.

Bluff: Feinting is still not good. Once you get multiple attacks, trading them to make your opponent flat footed is usually not worth it, even for a rogue. It needs to be a swift or maybe free action (but only once a round).

Intimidate: The supernatural uses for this skill seem to fall short of supernatural.

Perform: The first supernatural ability seems useful, but making you exhausted afterwards seems brutal. The second supernatural ability is wonderful. The ability to allow allies to reroll failed saves as an immediate action is great. It might be a good idea for everyone in the party to take this. Then they can tell limericks that are so hardcore that they can defeat an enemy wizard’s save or dies.

UMD: I have no idea what you mean with the wand of fireball thing. Currently, the caster level for a spell cast out of a wand is the item’s caster level. Are you nerfing UMD here?

Use Rope: Awesome for the flavor alone. Nice to see rules for doing the Indiana Jones grasping whip thing. People are going to want to know if they can do this with chain weapons.

Hope you enjoy the feedback.

[SirWayne]

I do; thanks much. :] First off, let me add that many skill uses are just for flavor-- the goal was to make skills more useful, sure; but they are still the red-headed stepchildren of D&D mechanics. I didn't really want the role of skills to utterly replace feats or class features-- which is why Feinting still defaults to a move action with Improved Feint; you're supposed to take levels in one of the classes that lets you do it as a swift/free action (like the Invisible Blade, which otherwise doesn't do much else, heh). But anyway, I'll get to that in due time....

If I am small sized I can't add my racial bonus to my size bonus, because the larger just overwrites the smaller. If I am large sized can I negate my hide penalty with a racial hide bonus? It seems like as you have it written here I could.

Yes, that's how it works. A Large giant with +8 to Hide and a whisper gnome with +4 racial and +4 size end up with the same modifier (+4).

Offhand, what type of bonus does the circumstance bonus from masterwork tools become? Would it be racial?

I was thinking Synergy, but I could see using d20 Modern's "equipment" bonus, and have it stack as well (but overall having much lower numbers than spells or magic items); maybe +2 to +5 depending on quality. What do you think?

That is the majority of his feats and we have not even touched the social ones. He also would have to be level 12.

This is intentional. Just as how a Fighter wanting to be totally awesome at TWF has to sink a bunch of feats into it, a PC wanting to master a lot of skills likewise has to sink feats into it. (OK, that's kind of a bad example because TWF doesn't give you much for that investment, but bear with me here.) Skill Focus feats sometimes offer a better advantage than "normal" feats, too-- a spellcaster can take a bunch of item creation feats, or just Skill Focus: Craft, and effectively get all of them (although only with his specializations). Similarly, nobody can have a focus in every skill-- just the ones he's mastered. I think it helps set Rogues apart that someone can be so good at hiding even darkmantles can't see him, while his buddy isn't quite so good at hiding but even magic can't find him. Stuff like that.

And you're right, I wouldn't dream of doing this if players didn't get a lot more feats. I don't think I'd ever play a non-caster in a game that had the typical six feats; it's just too frustratingly constraining.

---

Edit: Now it looks like you are basing this off the epic uses of handle animal.

Right, non-animals with Int of 1 or 2 (who are definitionally not vermin, who for some bizarre reason are Int 0 and "mindless")-- whatever those might be (uh... some undead? "Lost" from Magic of Incarnum? Some aberrations? :/) just get the +5 DC increase, but magical beasts (higher) and vermin (lower) use the separate rules. That took awhile for me to puzzle out. *chuckles*

Vermin are mindless, which means they cannot really be taught anything. Their int score of - means they can never be taught a trick.

Gah, I thought I had that in there. Vermin you train (and yeah, since this is an Eberron campaign it's mostly there for Drow scorpion trainers) count as Int 1 for the purposes of learning tricks.

I am not sure you want to include the part about intelligent creatures.

It's mostly there to accomodate people who want to train their dragon buddies at level 5, but couldn't possibly meet the DC (remember the "dragon farmer" in Chrono Cross, or guys like that? They shouldn't be near-Epic characters). I agree that it is pretty bizarre, but it's an archetype I didn't want to rule out.

There is also an ethical issue attached to making a sapient creature do tricks like come, stay, roll over, etc.

Interestingly, that's the catch-- only creatures who will want to do things like that already are eligible for the DC reduction. (I suppose you could use dominate monster, but 9th level spells should seriously come with this skill use built-in, heh.)

This is admittedly not much of a defense, though. I didn't put as much thought into Handle Animal as many of the other skills, because nobody in my group has really taken advantage of it. If you have any suggestions (making the bonus not quite as huge as -20 is a big one, heh), I'd be happy to hear them.

I mean, you could rear something you could not train, but it would not be able to do anything.

Two reasons, I suppose... one being that you can "break" and rear animals for someone else to train at several levels earlier, and two being that you don't have to "train" an animal to form a bond with one (using the Supernatural use). I agree with you that they could just be the same skill, especially since "tricks" tend to have their own set DCs anyway... there was some serious schitzophrenia going on at WOTC about this skill and its Epic uses, heh.

I am pretty sure that the stalk and hunting for food options already exists. Almost positive. The grapple and warn thing are tricks that my group always assumed animals just knew when to do. The aid another thing sounds cool.

Those were all ripped from Complete Adventurer's extra uses for Handle Animal.

That’s nice, but I really have no idea why I would want or need to improve my domesticated or reared animal’s mood.

Well, you can use it to make an animal like you and thus be able to speak with you. Also, it doesn't specify trained/reared animals for a reason-- that use of Handle Animal is the replacement for Wild Empathy if you're not a Druid or Ranger.

I think this would be easier if you just said that you gain an empathetic link with animals you have reared and the animal also gains mettle. This is a really cool ability I would love to have, but mostly for flavor reasons.

Hmm, that's true. But familiars also get 1/2 your hp (if higher than its hp), natural armor, bonus Int, and so on. The list of things it has or wouldn't have would be about equally long, heh.

I can’t imagine anyone using the skill in this way. It just is not very useful.

Indeed; if an NPC's familiar is causing you problems, it's usually safer to just kill it. But-- I'm not joking-- one of my PCs once wanted to steal a Salamander Sorcerer's fire snake familiar (I guess she had a thing for snakes, I didn't ask @_@), and asked if she could break up the bond or something. So at least one player wants to be able to pull something like that.

I think somebody in Oberoni's thread mentioned that idea too.

Unfortunately, ride’s epic uses suck. You did lower the DC, but all of the abilities are really worthless.

Yep. :/ I spent way too much time thinking of good uses for Ride; it was almost as bad as Swim. The biggest issue is that a lot of things you could do with Ride are already encompassed in classes like the Cavalier and Wild Plains Outrider, or in Handle Animal; and I wanted to limit as much overlap as possible.

That’s cool. You should include how you want the skill and the feat to interact.

Mounted Combat no longer exists; I couldn't think of anything to replace it with. One of the reasons I didn't include the "special skill feats" I'd mentioned was... well, the post was long enough >_>, and two, that a lot of skills didn't have one yet. Like... Ride. :\

Worthless. It is DC 15 to use your mount as cover and it requires no action.

My interpretation was that using the mount as cover restricted the use of attacking or spellcasting for the entire round, and thus you couldn't spend your actions on them (but presumably could still swing back up and dance the macarena on your horse's back).

By the time you can make a DC 30 check, you had better have a mount trained for warfare, not a light horse or something. At least you lowered the check by 20.

Surprisingly enough, this is relevant for my campaign, where players want to ride dinosaurs who aren't trained for war (like pterodac-- I mean, "glidewings" :[ ). I assume it would apply similarly for mastadons or zombie chimaeras that you might want to fight from the back of, but which are not "trained for war."

I have no idea what this is supposed to do. No idea at all.

"Heeey, macarena~!"

Nope, me neither. Maybe if you're using Stone Dragon and riding a stone destrier, so you have to be standing on it to count as "standing on stone," but riding on it isn't enough? Uhh... well, I'm sure some ability somewhere requires you to "move freely" or use your feet or something. Maybe one of those hyper-literal wordings of Evasion? (No, your feet are in your stirrups, so that totally means your movement is restricted and you can't make Reflex saves! Suck dice, munchkin!)

I don’t think I have ever really used the overland movement rules.

I have. It happens when you DM for a group that has no dedicated arcane spellcaster. :|

This does sound cool, but possibly exploitive. As written, it is a very good idea to show up with a backstory that involves riding a chaos roc for the last six years.

*laughs* Good point. Here, here's the feat as I have it worded; let me know what you think:

Companion [General] - Prerequisites: Knowledge (varies, as appropriate for creature type) 5 ranks, Handle Animal 5 ranks
You obtain an animal companion, undead cohort, or similar sort of creature. It can possess a CR up to 1/2 your character level. At each even level, when the CR limit would increase by 1, if you choose not to replace your companion, it gains 2 hit dice, +1 natural armor, +1 to Strength and Dexterity, and a bonus feat.

A person looking to get as much use out of this as possible will pick a small race and mount all their party members in order to heal them, which is probably not what you intended but is absolutely hilarious.

Ha ha, yeah, I have ruled that there are some restrictions to using the Ride skill on creatures above animal intelligence. A dragon or treant would make its own Con checks for a forced march just like a PC, for example.

Balance: I am not familiar with the other planes really, but the Planar Shepard is a class that specializes in using their effects and it is the consensus of everyone that it is totally broken.

It is, but fortunately there's no way to use Balance to transform into planetars or efreeti... at least, not that I know of. >_> Balancing on Limbo might turn you into a giant frog, though. (More seriously, you can basically use the "planar traits" rules from the DMG for most of them-- check here. Balancing on the Astral plane lets you cast Quickened spells, for example, but you can't benefit from Timestop or regeneration, since the plane is timeless and natural healing doesn't function. (Note that those are totally debateable and I just made them up right now.))

Bluff: Feinting is still not good. Once you get multiple attacks, trading them to make your opponent flat footed is usually not worth it, even for a rogue. It needs to be a swift or maybe free action (but only once a round).

You're right, I should probably have an option to make Feinting a move and then Swift action, at a penalty (that Improved Feint negates).

Intimidate: The supernatural uses for this skill seem to fall short of supernatural.

You don't think yelling "I'M BATMAN!" and having everyone spill their guts and be afraid of you the rest of their lives isn't supernatural...? To be fair, the Frightened and Panicked conditions are supernatural in D&D (only very specific things like draconic flight, spells, and Pandemonic winds can do that), but besides that, you're right. Any ideas? I couldn't really think of any.

Perform: The second supernatural ability is wonderful. The ability to allow allies to reroll failed saves as an immediate action is great. It might be a good idea for everyone in the party to take this. Then they can tell limericks that are so hardcore that they can defeat an enemy wizard’s save or dies.

Heh, it was meant to only apply to actions the PC was taking (hence the examples being a skill and attack roll), but as-written it would apply to saves. I'd better fix that; nice catch. >_>

UMD: I have no idea what you mean with the wand of fireball thing. Currently, the caster level for a spell cast out of a wand is the item’s caster level. Are you nerfing UMD here?

OK, I'm working on overhauling the magic item system (as-is it's quite... terrible), and one of the changes is that wands and staves basically function more like traditional fantasy-- they let you cast the spell in them as a spell known, but with your slots; and they have a limited number of daily charges (like Eberron's "eternal wands") rather than a large number of fixed charges (which lets low-level Sorcerers wipe out armies of conscripts with a few wands).

So instead of having a fixed caster level, they use the user's. So if you're activating a wand with UMD, it uses the "emulate class feature" rule, or result -20 = caster level. However, UMD is more limited than burning spell slots (for obvious reasons), so it's capped by the default caster level (typically 7, when Craft Wand comes online), unless you have the Supernatural use.

Use Rope: Awesome for the flavor alone. Nice to see rules for doing the Indiana Jones grasping whip thing. People are going to want to know if they can do this with chain weapons.

Hmm, what do you think? I don't have a problem with it-- I already allow reach weapons to be used "inside" their minimum range with a damage penalty, so the big allure of using spiked chains is out (going from d6 to 2d4 isn't a massive increase). On the other hand, naming the skill "Use Whip and Chains" really isn't appropriate unless you're playing that kind of game. >_>

---

Thanks again for the review and comments; I appreciate it. :] If you're wondering about anything else, feel free to ask. Our group isn't meeting this weekend (darn scheduling problems...) so I've been focusing on tweaking the system quite a bit.

[Crissa]

I rear cats and fish, but gosh if I bother to train them... Heck, I'm so lazy, I don't train my plants.

-Crissa

[shau]

Interestingly, that's the catch-- only creatures who will want to do things like that already are eligible for the DC reduction.

This is sort of a pet peeve of mine actually. You can have the diplomacy check there, but ultimately what you are really doing is making another inteligent creature your slave for the game. This is really bad when you consider the fact that you can openly sell griffons and pegusai and so forth.

Well, you can use it to make an animal like you and thus be able to speak with you. Also, it doesn't specify trained/reared animals for a reason-- that use of Handle Animal is the replacement for Wild Empathy if you're not a Druid or Ranger

That makes a lot of sense. I think WotC really needs to come up with some tags for animals and explanations for when the uses of this skill can be used. By RAW, I am pretty sure I can walk up to T Rex and "push" it to make it fetch, even if it is trying to bite at the time. I also can see a really good argument that I should be able to just walk right up and teach it a trick. My enemies can also make a DC 10 animal handling check and have my own horse kick me to death.

Yep. I spent way too much time thinking of good uses for Ride; it was almost as bad as Swim. The biggest issue is that a lot of things you could do with Ride are already encompassed in classes like the Cavalier and Wild Plains Outrider, or in Handle Animal; and I wanted to limit as much overlap as possible.

Oh, I have thought of all sorts of things that ride really needs to do. Here are some examples.

Agile charging

If you make a DC whatever ride check your mount no longer has to charge in a straight line.

This gives chargers an ability they care about, and actually makes the feat ride-by-attack work.

Powerful charging

Your mount can chose to charge through creatures that are one size category smaller than him. Follow the rules for overrunning as normal.

I would have to clean up the language, but the idea is that you can tranple things on the way to your charge target. This fits thematically and logically and gives another way for the ride-by attack feat to actually work. I heard this is how charging worked in 3.0.

Protect your mount

You can give the benefits of full cover to your mount.

This is actually an ability written to allow you to choose roleplaying over power. Lots of people are going to want to ride their loyal steed for ever and ever. Unfortunately, once you reach a certain level of play a warhorse is going to get killed. Repeatedly. In every single combat. Rather than having to stable ol' Silver, with this you can keep riding him without worrying that he will be disintigrated by a fireball or something.

Crowded movement

You can control your mount in tight terrain without penalty. Your mount counts as one size smaller for the purposes of whether or not you have to squeeze.

This use is just necessary. Horses should not take up four five foot squares to begin with. Now you can be a mounted knight in a dungeon without having to be a halfling riding a dog. There is a feat that does this, but it sucks because it makes take a feat that you will never use as a prerequisite.

Surprisingly enough, this is relevant for my campaign, where players want to ride dinosaurs who aren't trained for war (like pterodac-- I mean, "glidewings" :[ ). I assume it would apply similarly for mastadons or zombie chimaeras that you might want to fight from the back of, but which are not "trained for war."

I always sort of assume that training an animal in combat riding or attacking is "trained for war." Otherwise, the mounts available to mounted archers are pretty much limited to Warhorse and Warpony.

Companion [General] - Prerequisites: Knowledge (varies, as appropriate for creature type) 5 ranks, Handle Animal 5 ranks
You obtain an animal companion, undead cohort, or similar sort of creature. It can possess a CR up to 1/2 your character level. At each even level, when the CR limit would increase by 1, if you choose not to replace your companion, it gains 2 hit dice, +1 natural armor, +1 to Strength and Dexterity, and a bonus feat.

Looks good, but I would have to test it. Having a good mount for a rider is a very delicate thing. The mount has to be durable, or else riding becomes unviable. I mean, if a fighter's mount dies in battle, then there is a good chance that he loses the ability to use all his feats. Which means he just lost all his class features. At low levels it can also be traumatic. My mount's usually have a full paragraph of my char's backstory dedicated to them, and I usually only go to a page length. On the other hand, if the mount is too powerful it can imbalance the game.

It is, but fortunately there's no way to use Balance to transform into planetars or efreeti... at least, not that I know of. >_> Balancing on Limbo might turn you into a giant frog, though. (More seriously, you can basically use the "planar traits" rules from the DMG for most of them-- check here. Balancing on the Astral plane lets you cast Quickened spells, for example, but you can't benefit from Timestop or regeneration, since the plane is timeless and natural healing doesn't function. (Note that those are totally debateable and I just made them up right now.))

What if I balance on a plane where time is flowing and every year on that plane is equivalent to six seconds on the material?

You don't think yelling "I'M BATMAN!" and having everyone spill their guts and be afraid of you the rest of their lives isn't supernatural...?

Hey, the bully in my school kept some of my friends terrified for years, and I don't think he was magic.

How about you just let the character cast some version of the fear spell?

[SirWayne]

Quote battle... commence! Thanks again for the replies, Shau. :]

You can have the diplomacy check there, but ultimately what you are really doing is making another inteligent creature your slave for the game. This is really bad when you consider the fact that you can openly sell griffons and pegusai and so forth.

Well, yes, the purpose of that use of Handle Animal is to enable people to train and sell "housebroken" creatures without having to make inordinately high DCs-- like your example of giant spiders, I find it hard to believe that every Drow vermin trainer is an Epic character. It's also there for 1st-level characters to believably have had a pet hellhound in their backstory or something, which is important for some characters.

Your objection is sound, but I think it's better to be more strict about the mechanic (a creature you "enslave" definitely won't count as willing-- these are intelligent beings, after all) and to throw out bad ones (money made by being an animal trainer should be based on Profession, just like anything else; and the static values given in some monster books are just guidelines) rather than getting rid of something some concepts need to have in the rules somewhere.

I think WotC really needs to come up with some tags for animals and explanations for when the uses of this skill can be used.

No joke. The obvious assumption is that the "rearing" period takes the X number of weeks, and and you can "train" an animal during that time (which has its own inconsistent rules that do not match up with the generic teach/train rule :| ), but it doesn't say anything about training animals someone else reared, like you mentioned; and a few other things.

Oh, I have thought of all sorts of things that ride really needs to do.

Excellent. Thanks; these are some good ideas, and all of them will probably make it in there to some degree. Although I was curious about--

Your mount counts as one size smaller for the purposes of whether or not you have to squeeze.

I was going to put this in there, but I figured it should probably be a feat of some kind. If it's already a feat somewhere, I can probably just adapt it-- do you remember where it's from?

I always sort of assume that training an animal in combat riding or attacking is "trained for war."

Yeah, now that you mention it, that makes sense. I never really noticed that "combat riding" thing before, heh. >_>

My mount's usually have a full paragraph of my char's backstory dedicated to them, and I usually only go to a page length. On the other hand, if the mount is too powerful it can imbalance the game.

Heh, one of my former players was like that-- she was an Equestrian student at the local college, obsessed with horses, unicorns, etc. (her dorm room had at least a dozen My Little Ponies... I didn't drop by often :| ). She was bad lecturing me about the mounted combat rules as those fabled stories of "LARPers" haranguing on weapon wieldiness and armor encumbrance.

Uh, anyway, it shouldn't be a problem, because that feat is basically the Druid's animal companion, except advancing every 2 levels for 1 CR instead of every 4 for 2. Given animals' hit dice and [typically] high Con scores, most will probably be more survivable than their riders, except for melee-types.

What if I balance on a plane where time is flowing and every year on that plane is equivalent to six seconds on the material?

Eberron [the campaign setting I'm reluctantly using out of inability to make my own this time] doesn't have the Far Realms, which as I recall is the only place that does that. Even in the "default" setting, I think trying to balance there wouldn't accomplish anything-- the Balance DC is going to get too high to maintain before a minute elapses anyway, which is... fractions of a second in the "real world."

Hey, the bully in my school kept some of my friends terrified for years, and I don't think he was magic.

Heh, point.

How about you just let the character cast some version of the fear spell?

Well, it does; "Frightened" is the status condition inflicted by Cause Fear. I was going to have Intimidate's "skill feat" essentially advance fear conditions by one step for free all the time-- the normal use of Intimidate causes Frightened, and the -10 version causes Panic (like the Fear spell), and allow you to hit multiple creatures.