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Andy's new fixation this week--weapon sundering.

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 2:36 pm
by Lago_AM3P
Apparently, in naked stealth errata according to the new FAQ, two massive rules changes have been implemented.

1. You can damage a magic weapon with anything, even sheets of paper.

2. You can use sunder as a melee attack varient, rather than a standard action. This means improved trip sunders, which will be just frickin' lethal.

Andy obviously thinks this is really cool for his game so everyone should have these rules inflicted on him. Despite my peeved-off ness at this, how much will this really affect my game?

Re: Andy's new fixation this week--weapon sundering.

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 5:31 pm
by User3
Lago, do you have a link for this new errata? I'd like to comment on it, but would rather read the fine print first.

Re: Andy's new fixation this week--weapon sundering.

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 5:31 pm
by Count Arioch the 28th
1. In the SRD, under sunder, it does not say that you need anything special to damage a magic weapon. Unless it says that you still need magical weapons to damage another weapon elsewhere, which would make no sense at all, it's not a stealth rule change, it's a legit rule change from 3.5. (Note that if it does say it elsewhere, it's not like WotC hasn't done things thaty make no sense before.)

2. I was sure that's how sunder worked in 3.0, perhaps it's a 3.5 change that wasn't intentional. Or maybe Andy doesn't even know all hiw rules. Either way, remembe what sundering was like in 3.0, and you'll have a good idea of how it would work now, I reckon.

Re: Andy's new fixation this week--weapon sundering.

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 5:48 pm
by Lago_AM3P
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/Main35 ... br][br]The rule in question is here.

They even address the question of sundering magical items, saying what is in the DMG is actually FALSE and this sudden whiplash of a rules change is actually what they wanted.

Oh. And sundering as an attack action is in there, too.

Suddenly the combat brute chain looks a lot more appealing.

Re: Andy's new fixation this week--weapon sundering.

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 6:16 pm
by Count Arioch the 28th
I didn't realize it said it in the 3.5 DMG, it's not in the SRD that I can see.

Re: Andy's new fixation this week--weapon sundering.

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 7:15 pm
by User3
Lago_AM3P at [unixtime wrote:1080398166[/unixtime]]Apparently, in naked stealth errata according to the new FAQ, two massive rules changes have been implemented.

1. You can damage a magic weapon with anything, even sheets of paper.

2. You can use sunder as a melee attack varient, rather than a standard action. This means improved trip sunders, which will be just frickin' lethal.

Andy obviously thinks this is really cool for his game so everyone should have these rules inflicted on him. Despite my peeved-off ness at this, how much will this really affect my game?

um .... i don't think imp. trip can sunder - that's a whole separate action according to the revision. if you have 3 attacks in 1 round, you could say, attempt:

1. Atk #1 - Sunder
2. Atk #2 - Trip
3. Atk #3 - Normal Attack for damage

so i'm not sure where you are getting a trip/sunder from ? :confused:

Re: Andy's new fixation this week--weapon sundering.

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 7:32 pm
by User3
Improved Trip gives you a free attack if you successfully trip, which can be a sunder, and since they're now prone you have a significant advantage on your opposed role.

Lago, I have to wonder why you ever thought sunder was a standard action and not a melee attack variant in the first place. It's pretty clear in 3.5 (was it defined as a standard action in 3.0? I don't have my old book or remember). That wouldn't even make sense anyway. What do you do, spend extra time charging up your secret sunder power?

I also want to say that sunder is retarded as written. You damage an item by directly applying force with another and only the target item takes damage? I know you're not supposed to apply realism to D&D, but Jesus Christ, that's just too stupid for me.

Re: Andy's new fixation this week--weapon sundering.

Posted: Sat Mar 27, 2004 7:37 pm
by da_chicken
I'm with Count on this one. It's not that stealth, and what Andy's saying isn't a rule change in 3.5. The DMG errata already clearly indicates that the weapon properties from enhacement bonuses in the DMG are wrong.

3.0: Each enhancement bonus adds +1 hardness and hp; need equal enhacement to damage weapon.
3.5: Each enhancement adds +2 hardness and +10 hp.

So a +5 adamantine heavy mace in 3.5 has hardness 30 and 66 hp. If you were looking for something to cast animate objects on, this is probably it.

And, really, with 3.0's greater magic weapon, was Sunder really all that difficult before?

Re: Andy's new fixation this week--weapon sundering.

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:31 am
by The_Hanged_Man
Isn't that just the metal head, though? The shaft of that adamantine mace would be easier to break.

I don't like the "attack action" change, although we've used a similar houserule for quite a while. Sunder was tough enough before.

Re: Andy's new fixation this week--weapon sundering.

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:09 am
by Essence
Nah. Morningstars are wooden haft; metal head. Maces are entirely metal. It's in the PHB. :)