The Gaming Den

Does Quick Draw only apply to weapons? Will Quick Draw allow me to pull an item from a belt-pouch, backpack, or utility belt as a free action? If not is there any mechanic currently in place to do so?

-Desdan

I don't think so...It specifies "Weapon". It further notes you can draw a hidden weapon as a move action. Something in your pack is certainly "hidden".

That being said, I would probably let you do it from a hewards handy haversack, but not a backpack or Bag of holding.

TA

The 3.5 mechanics are (I'm not making this up, btw), that you make a slight of hand test with a -20 to pull out an object as a free action without anyone seeing you do it.

If other people beat your sleight of hand check with their spot check, you still pull it out as a free action, but everyone sees you do it.

Since sleight of hand is usable untrained, and there are no real consequences of failure, nor are there any minimum DCs - everyone can pull out objects as a free action any time they want - the only drawback being that they draw attention to themselves when doing so (ie.: the DC to spot them falls to about -10 because it's so easy to notice movement I guess).

-Username17

The other drawback is that the object has to be hidden in the first place. You're not going to be able to hide a longspear.

"Is that a longspear in your cloak or are you just happy to see me?"

Sure you can. Once again, the consequences of your failing to beat their spot check is that they see it.

"Is that a long spear partially concealed behind your cloak?"

"No."

"Yes it is, it's poking out of both ends!"

"No it isn't!"

"Then you admit that you have a long spear! You can't take that in here."

"I don't know what you're talking about."

"You're not fooling anyone."

etc...

The 3.5 rules for pulling out objects and concealing objects quickly make no sense - as the penalties for fialure don't involve failing to do it quickly, but failing to do it without being seen. Assuming that you don't give a crap whether you are seen or not, the DC is effectively that of tying your shoes - everybody makes it all the time regardless of statistics or skills.

-Username17

Well, y'know, that's very interesting...

Thanks guys.

-Desdan

Frank, you are firmly off in crazy land on that one.

Reading over the Sleight of Hand skill descript on PHB 81-82, it says nothing about using the skill to quick-draw items. It does say that "drawing a hidden weapon is a standard action which doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity" - but we're not talking about weapons here.

Let's assume that "Performing a minor feat of legerdemain" includes quick-drawing spell components or what-have you, since I'm not trying to be obtuse here, and that's obviously the interpretation you're working from.

That gives it a DC of 10. ("Unless an observer is determined to note where the object went")

As per the Action entry, it is a standard action. However you can take a -20 penalty to do it as a free action.

That gives it a DC of 30.

As per the Untrained line of Sleight of Hand, tjecks of DCs above 10 are effectlively trained only. So it can't be attempted by "everybody".

Futhermore, the flavor text for the skill specifies "...feat of legerdemain with an object no larger than a hat or a loaf of bread." And while this is in the flavor instead of mechanics text, it does pose problems for your longspear example - depending of course on the size of your hat.

You are right in that with your interpretation of the rules, it does get wacky when an observer is determined to note where the object went and it becomes an opposed roll with faliure seemingly indicating only obviousness of the item - but there's another interpretation possible.

If you interpret "The observer's success doesn't prevent you from performing the action, just from doing it unnoticed" to be part of the same "When" conditional as the preceding sentance is, then you reach the conclusion that there are multiple DCs on a single tjeck with different consequences of failure for the different DCs.

Fail to make the DC 10 - can't do it
Fail to make the DC 30 - can't do it as a free action
Fail to beat observer's Spot tjeck - can't do it unnoticed.
Fail to beat observer's Spot Tjeck by 20 - can't do it as a free action unnoticed.

Yeah, it's bad wording and yeah it's nonstandard for the system, but it is a possible interpretation of the given rules text.