1. Do any of you work at gaming stores? How's business lately (please indicate your rough geographic location)?
2. How do 3rd party material (d20 splat and original products) sell compared to WotC stuff?
3. How are collectible card game sales?
4. Personally, do you prefer to spend your money on P&P RPG stuff, trading card game stuff, or video games? Rent is a good option too.
5. Where do you see P&P RPGs in 5 years? 10? 20? How about CCGs? Video games?
These questions are personal interest, no actual business venture relies on the answers. However, I am curious and would appreciate input.
RPGs and Your Gaming Dollar
Moderator: Moderators
Re: RPGs and Your Gaming Dollar
1) No. There's one a block away from where I live, though, and anecdotally, business seems to be fair. There're typically four or five other customers when I go in.
2) n/a
3) n/a
4) Split between P&P and CRPGs -- though the latter tend to get more in strict dollar terms, which is I think not surprising; they're generally more expensive, less replayable, and require an expensive computer.
5) I think D&D will continue to dominate the market for the foreseeable future, just because of brand recognition. I expect the rights to the name to be sold around two or three times in the next 20 years, though.
2) n/a
3) n/a
4) Split between P&P and CRPGs -- though the latter tend to get more in strict dollar terms, which is I think not surprising; they're generally more expensive, less replayable, and require an expensive computer.
5) I think D&D will continue to dominate the market for the foreseeable future, just because of brand recognition. I expect the rights to the name to be sold around two or three times in the next 20 years, though.
Re: RPGs and Your Gaming Dollar
1) No. I have a home in NJ and VT. Both of my FLGS's are well-run and successful enterprises (unlike most). One is pure games & hobbies. The other one is more diversified, offering pets and pet supplies in the other half of the store. Both of them have a thriving D&D business going. The other games they support (White Wolf, SJC, Palladium, Champions) are diminishing at an astonishing rate.
2) D20 stuff is also rapidly receding in popularity. One store used to do well with the majors (Mongoose, Green Ronin, Malhavoc, etc.). Now that WotC 3.X material is arguably overwhelming and "too much", nobody wants D20 material anymore. Goodman Games modules seem to do well though. One of the stores is solidly supported by a contingent of FR groups in my locale. The other is solidly supported by RPGA and Eberron fanatics. Go figure. Anyway, WotC D&D is super strong in both.
3) CCG's are now a mature industry. Sales seem stable. There seems to be no spike in new players from release to release. Like the D&D'ers, this demographic is loyal and consistent in purchases. The D&D Miniatures crowd falls into this category as well.
4) RPG Books mainly. Although I buy a ton of military history books as well. Which surprisingly, has some crossover applications.
5) You've seen the apex. The Corporate Muscle angle has seen its glory days and its hardcore popularity/profit days as well. Amongst corporate backers for D&D, it doesn't get much better than Hasbro (from a distribution/advertising/funding standpoint). And it's pretty much common knowledge now that Hasbro would like to sell the IP for a nice gain if the right buyer came along. The right buyers are out there though - but they are only moderately wealthy and well-intentioned fanboy consortiums with a not-too-enticing pool of cash. Let's see how D&D's Eberron, computer game licensing, and 4.0 execution pans out first ...
2) D20 stuff is also rapidly receding in popularity. One store used to do well with the majors (Mongoose, Green Ronin, Malhavoc, etc.). Now that WotC 3.X material is arguably overwhelming and "too much", nobody wants D20 material anymore. Goodman Games modules seem to do well though. One of the stores is solidly supported by a contingent of FR groups in my locale. The other is solidly supported by RPGA and Eberron fanatics. Go figure. Anyway, WotC D&D is super strong in both.
3) CCG's are now a mature industry. Sales seem stable. There seems to be no spike in new players from release to release. Like the D&D'ers, this demographic is loyal and consistent in purchases. The D&D Miniatures crowd falls into this category as well.
4) RPG Books mainly. Although I buy a ton of military history books as well. Which surprisingly, has some crossover applications.
5) You've seen the apex. The Corporate Muscle angle has seen its glory days and its hardcore popularity/profit days as well. Amongst corporate backers for D&D, it doesn't get much better than Hasbro (from a distribution/advertising/funding standpoint). And it's pretty much common knowledge now that Hasbro would like to sell the IP for a nice gain if the right buyer came along. The right buyers are out there though - but they are only moderately wealthy and well-intentioned fanboy consortiums with a not-too-enticing pool of cash. Let's see how D&D's Eberron, computer game licensing, and 4.0 execution pans out first ...
Re: RPGs and Your Gaming Dollar
- Not anymore. Of the stores locally, half have closed, including two chains. D20 is the only thing resisting shrinkage, but if it wasn't their core business... Thy're hurting. The stores which do kid stuff are doing 'okay' but the adult-game, including even the playing card and board games... Total suckage.
- Downhill, fast. It never was a very high quality part of the marketplace... But now Hasbro's offerings seem to sit in the same place quality and volume. They're also available from store which won't carry anyone else's stuff - aside from maybe a bit of White Wolf - so third-party stuff will just not have a shelf to sit on.
- Card games are shrinking, slowly. Actually, it'll be faster, when the amount of unsold product hits a saturation, and kills another layer of stores. There are no longer CCG only stores - any of the places which offered tables no longer exist, even if they had diversified sales.
- Not anymore. Okay, I bought a book on a lark yesterday, but it was sitting on a shelf in a comic store for over two years, maybe more.
- Video games are the new market... But how it'll work out? Hand held games will become popular again. There's new technology for having trading card and pokemon games based on the ubiqutous phones and GPS, you can play Quake on a cell phone. Will it take off? No idea. Corporate won't be making these new products. I don't think D&D will be around.
-Crissa
Re: RPGs and Your Gaming Dollar
Hmm different replies from Book and Crissa there.
The way I see it, video games are not-so-slowly tearing rapidly into all profits from other forms of entertainment: toys, CCGs, P&P RPGs, even the movie theaters are feeling the hurt from people prefering to spend their hard earned money on video games.
That, and the availability of the internet as a social/entertainment tool is also redifining the way people allot their leisure time. 4 hours to sit down and play D&D? Who thinks this is the best use of their leisure time anymore (actually, I still think there would is a time and a place for it).
Further questions include: will CCGs and traditional P&P RPGs finally be able to make a digital transition, and is it even possible to develop coherent tools to allow freeform storytelling ala D&D over the internet? How long before WotC simply stops printing new Magic sets and simply makes them available only through MTG Online? Will the video game industry finally start to plateau and stop its rapid growth?
The way I see it, video games are not-so-slowly tearing rapidly into all profits from other forms of entertainment: toys, CCGs, P&P RPGs, even the movie theaters are feeling the hurt from people prefering to spend their hard earned money on video games.
That, and the availability of the internet as a social/entertainment tool is also redifining the way people allot their leisure time. 4 hours to sit down and play D&D? Who thinks this is the best use of their leisure time anymore (actually, I still think there would is a time and a place for it).
Further questions include: will CCGs and traditional P&P RPGs finally be able to make a digital transition, and is it even possible to develop coherent tools to allow freeform storytelling ala D&D over the internet? How long before WotC simply stops printing new Magic sets and simply makes them available only through MTG Online? Will the video game industry finally start to plateau and stop its rapid growth?
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Josh_Kablack
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- Location: Online. duh
Re: RPGs and Your Gaming Dollar
1. Do any of you work at gaming stores? How's business lately (please indicate your rough geographic location)?
No. The owner of the FLGS has stated to me recently that the gaming industry was collapsing, but he's diversified into enough other stuff (and has a rabidly loyal customer base) that he'll stay afloat for years yet
2. How do 3rd party material (d20 splat and original products) sell compared to WotC stuff?
No idea.
3. How are collectible card game sales?
My most recent information is that Pokemon isn't hot anymore.
4. Personally, do you prefer to spend your money on P&P RPG stuff, trading card game stuff, or video games? Rent is a good option too.
At the moment, video games are at the top of that list, narrowly edging out P&P rpg stuff. This is because I have an easier time buying used ps2 games which I will actually play for under $10 than I do finding time to play a number of the RPGs I already own.
5. Where do you see P&P RPGs in 5 years? 10? 20? How about CCGs? Video games?
I see P&P games going in three different directions at once.
A> Extremely cheap small scale ventures, either published electronically or on cheap card stock (ala Kobolds ate my Baby) and mostly circulated/marketed at conventions.
B> High-End RPGs with integrated online support -ala HERO Maker, but moreso, possibly moving to a closer marraige between videogames and P&P RPGS (stuff like NwN's module design)
C> Continued traditional RPGs (ala D&D 3.x) Published by Hasbro and the New Number Two (White Wolf was number 2 in last week's show). I don't see these being all that profitable, but they'll be tuned-in enough to geek fad culture and tie-in well enough with other publishing ventures (fantasy novels)
CCGs> I see M:tG staying viable for the next decade, but I have no idea what happens after that
As for video games, sign me up with Dilbert. "The survival of the species is only guaranteed so long as virtual reality remains more expensive than a date on friday night." - Seriously, the biggest development in the near future for video games will probably be the emergance and gradual social acceptance of 12-step recovery programs for people who pursue escapism too obsessively. More immediately, I see a much deserved evisceration of the ESRB ratings system and it's replacement by something horrendous mandated by the spawn of Dr. Fredrick Wortham.
No. The owner of the FLGS has stated to me recently that the gaming industry was collapsing, but he's diversified into enough other stuff (and has a rabidly loyal customer base) that he'll stay afloat for years yet
2. How do 3rd party material (d20 splat and original products) sell compared to WotC stuff?
No idea.
3. How are collectible card game sales?
My most recent information is that Pokemon isn't hot anymore.
4. Personally, do you prefer to spend your money on P&P RPG stuff, trading card game stuff, or video games? Rent is a good option too.
At the moment, video games are at the top of that list, narrowly edging out P&P rpg stuff. This is because I have an easier time buying used ps2 games which I will actually play for under $10 than I do finding time to play a number of the RPGs I already own.
5. Where do you see P&P RPGs in 5 years? 10? 20? How about CCGs? Video games?
I see P&P games going in three different directions at once.
A> Extremely cheap small scale ventures, either published electronically or on cheap card stock (ala Kobolds ate my Baby) and mostly circulated/marketed at conventions.
B> High-End RPGs with integrated online support -ala HERO Maker, but moreso, possibly moving to a closer marraige between videogames and P&P RPGS (stuff like NwN's module design)
C> Continued traditional RPGs (ala D&D 3.x) Published by Hasbro and the New Number Two (White Wolf was number 2 in last week's show). I don't see these being all that profitable, but they'll be tuned-in enough to geek fad culture and tie-in well enough with other publishing ventures (fantasy novels)
CCGs> I see M:tG staying viable for the next decade, but I have no idea what happens after that
As for video games, sign me up with Dilbert. "The survival of the species is only guaranteed so long as virtual reality remains more expensive than a date on friday night." - Seriously, the biggest development in the near future for video games will probably be the emergance and gradual social acceptance of 12-step recovery programs for people who pursue escapism too obsessively. More immediately, I see a much deserved evisceration of the ESRB ratings system and it's replacement by something horrendous mandated by the spawn of Dr. Fredrick Wortham.
"But transportation issues are social-justice issues. The toll of bad transit policies and worse infrastructure—trains and buses that don’t run well and badly serve low-income neighborhoods, vehicular traffic that pollutes the environment and endangers the lives of cyclists and pedestrians—is borne disproportionately by black and brown communities."
Re: RPGs and Your Gaming Dollar
On a twist of what I mentioned earlier, I see RPGs/CCGs as a mature industry. RPGs are going on 30 years of existence. CCGs around 13 or so. They both appeal to only a very limited niche-oriented demographic. And probably always will.rapanui wrote: The way I see it, video games are not-so-slowly tearing rapidly into all profits from other forms of entertainment: toys, CCGs, P&P RPGs, even the movie theaters are feeling the hurt from people prefering to spend their hard earned money on video games.
That last statement of mine indicates that these games will always have a market for some enterprising game company somewhere.
As far as video/online/virtual reality games killing them ... I don't foresee that for a very long time. Online shopping and e-commerce was supposed to the final nail in the coffin for many business and storefront types. And while it has had a strategic impact, brick-&-mortar businesses still thrive. Primarily because people still want to "touch-&-feel" their products in addition to having the esoteric experience of "shopping".
Same goes for RPGs/CCGs. The full social experience of table-gathered friends playing Magic or D&D at your FLGS or your basement rec room cannot be replicated by video games. And there is still a significant demographic that wants that. Also, the tactile aspects of these games have merit. Rolling dice, char-sheet creation, deck riffling, and the instant access to rules or pictures from your nearby stack of sourcebooks interests a lot of people.
Re: RPGs and Your Gaming Dollar
I dunno about those 5 questions, but the rpg industry can't be that bad off so long as there's strong product like this out there.
"1 on 1 Adventures #6.66: The Pleasure Prison of the B’thuvian Demon Whore"
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/catalog/p ... id=3834[br]
Yeah, it doesn't get any better than 3rd party adventures written by fictional authors.
"1 on 1 Adventures #6.66: The Pleasure Prison of the B’thuvian Demon Whore"
http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/catalog/p ... id=3834[br]
snippet of the summary wrote:
The Pleasure Prison of the B’thuvian Demon Whore: the adventure that is, quite frankly, too strong for the mere hobbyist gamer! A desert caravan ambushed! An incognito Queen elfnapped and taken to some sandy hideaway! A hero of epic proportions! Within these covers is the greatest adventure ever told. Will the dangerous renegade B’thuvian Demon Whore Alayshia have her way with our hero or will he have her to his way? Which way will the having be?
Yeah, it doesn't get any better than 3rd party adventures written by fictional authors.
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power_word_wedgie
- Master
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- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Re: RPGs and Your Gaming Dollar
1. Do any of you work at gaming stores? How's business lately (please indicate your rough geographic location)?
No, not really, but like dbb mentions, there always seem to be someone else shopping in the store when I am.
2. How do 3rd party material (d20 splat and original products) sell compared to WotC stuff?
N/A
3. How are collectible card game sales?
N/A
4. Personally, do you prefer to spend your money on P&P RPG stuff, trading card game stuff, or video games? Rent is a good option too.
Of my discretionary income, between those three choices, I usually spend it on P&P RPG stuff first and video games second. I usually like reading the fluff in the books. Frankly, for my, video games have pretty much stayed the same for a while.
5. Where do you see P&P RPGs in 5 years? 10? 20? How about CCGs? Video games?
I think that P&P RPGs and video games will basically be at the same spot that they are today in 5, 10, and 20 years. It will remain pretty much a niche hobby for RPGs with video games remaining more mainstream.
No, not really, but like dbb mentions, there always seem to be someone else shopping in the store when I am.
2. How do 3rd party material (d20 splat and original products) sell compared to WotC stuff?
N/A
3. How are collectible card game sales?
N/A
4. Personally, do you prefer to spend your money on P&P RPG stuff, trading card game stuff, or video games? Rent is a good option too.
Of my discretionary income, between those three choices, I usually spend it on P&P RPG stuff first and video games second. I usually like reading the fluff in the books. Frankly, for my, video games have pretty much stayed the same for a while.
5. Where do you see P&P RPGs in 5 years? 10? 20? How about CCGs? Video games?
I think that P&P RPGs and video games will basically be at the same spot that they are today in 5, 10, and 20 years. It will remain pretty much a niche hobby for RPGs with video games remaining more mainstream.
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Hey_I_Can_Chan
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- Location: Garden Grove, CA
Re: RPGs and Your Gaming Dollar
The Pleasure Prison of the B’thuvian Demon Whore? Do I even want to know what kind of a "1-on-1 adventure" that is?
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power_word_wedgie
- Master
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Hey_I_Can_Chan
- Master
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- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
- Location: Garden Grove, CA
Re: RPGs and Your Gaming Dollar
Enjoy.
No, but at least I get the reference now. Thanks.