I win, biatch.

[User3]

Last class I'll ever play.

WotC link

[Josh_Kablack]

Um. not bad, but I'm not seeing the be-all end all here. The ability to cherry pick extended buffs off of even the most obscure spell lists and the explict 3x/day casting recharge are decent...oh wait..there's a caster level multiplier in there...yeah..you win.

[Username17]

The only thing it doesn't do is have worthwhile save-based attack spells. There are ways around that, such as taking inate spell and supernatural transformation, or taking levels of a transfer class after chameleon - if you walk in with Nar Demonbinder or some damn thing, you'll have a very high caster level indeed.

But it's a real toss-up, if you take a transfer class, you can't take a caster level bonus class - every class like alienist gives you two caster levels per levels and in the long run you'll be able to turn your bonus feat into more spell levels, or just plain use a tremendous caster level off of a staff of holy word or some damn thing.

The only thing really wrong with it is that the class is inherently metagame. You have the ability to mimic specific character classes rather than specific people - so it's stupid beyond belief. But yes, it does make you win D&D.

-Username17

[User3]

Of course, all progression (along that vein) ends at level 15.

And the fact that you can't use the main abilities to qualify for anything...

But I really like the two-level dip, for being able to use every single wand in the game and a feat to get into PrCs that need Toughness or Alertness.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

I think it's pretty cool that they finally made a reasonable version of Red Mage from 8-bit theatre.

[Oberoni]

Hey, you forgot about the Bar...nevermind.

[User3]

Okay, I am pretty fair min maxer. But for the life of me, I don't see how you can "abuse" this PrC into winning D&D.

The PrC is extremely innovative and nicely balanced, but how can you trump things like 8th and 9th level spells with this class?

[Username17]

OK... this allows you to select off of any list. And it gives you a caster level as high as 30 pre-epic without even fiddling with anything funky or questionable. And that's any list - even "consolation prize" lists - like the Demonologist or Assassin.

The ability to select off of any list makes their restriction to 4th level spells entirely meaningless except for the determination of save DCs. Spells on their fourth level plate include: Planar Binding (demonologist), Dominate Person (Consecrated Harrier), Transmute Rock to Mud (Blighter), and Stop Heart (Assassin).

Pretige Classes and Domains have special low-level versions of spells as class features - and so do you.

-Username17

[Essence]

Actually, it's better than that. You get up to 6th level spells, which nets you Improvisation, Great Shout, and the other Bard "consolation prizes" like Irresistable Dance. And there was much rejoycing.

[edit]Oooh, and the Chameleon can do the fun Curse of Lycanthropy stuff that Frank mentioned. Cherry picking is good.[/edit]

[Username17]

Boy is my face red. Yeah, they have sixth level spells - which means that they can indeed cherry pick any old piece of crazy. It's kind of like replacing all of your spellcasting with slightly superior Limited Wishes that don't cost XP.

-Username17

[User3]

The only thing it doesn't do is have worthwhile save-based attack spells.

Well, the Chameleon has equivilant spells, just not the crazy good AoE ones like Wail of the Banshee.

By investing in stuff (stats, feats, +stat equipment) like a same-level caster, he still has an equivilant or better DC on his lower level spells because the Chameleon can then put its Ability Boon class feature into its casting stat, meaning that he is blasting his spells off at +1/+2/+3 DC, meaning that he's popping off Mass Charms(as a Bard) at a DC that is 3 higher than what an equal level Bard could produce, and his Flesh to Stone spells(as a Wiz) are coming in at a DC equivilant to a 9th level spell cast by a caster with the same stuff.

[Username17]

Well, the Chameleon has equivilant spells, just not the crazy good AoE ones like Wail of the Banshee.

No, you have those. Doom Tide is on your list, and so is Mass Charm, that's not your problem. Your problem is that while you can shoot off a Mass Charm at level 14, it's still only a sixth level spell. And you have Multiple Attribute Dependency.

You need to jack up your Wisdom and Intelligence, and your spells cap out 3 levels lower than the other primary casters. That means that those jokers are going to end up with save DCs that are about 5 points bigger than yours - even with your impressive access to statistic competence bonuses and crap.

-Username17

[Falgund]

Except you would still need to have a spellbook including those spells:

You prepare and cast these spells just as a wizard does, including the use of a spellbook

Which may be easy for spells casted by non-spontaneous class (just steal the spellbook), but is a little trickier for spells only available to Bard/Assassin/other spontaneous arcane spellcasters.

For those, the Chameleon should either find someone with this spell who already wrote it in a spellbook (rare ... someone with Arcane Preparation?), or he should find a scroll with the spell and then write the spell itself.

Of course, as a school exist for the Chameleon (the Mimic Mansion), it is highly probable that this school do already have spellbooks with all the interesting spells, and with members that are dedicated to copy them to new spellbooks.

So, not a real problem, just something that needed to be mentioned.

[User3]

That means that those jokers are going to end up with save DCs that are about 5 points bigger than yours - even with your impressive access to statistic competence bonuses and crap.

If you don't mind, I'd like to see the math on that.

I just assumed that you'd pick a single stat(your arcane or divine) and just run with it, building your character like a single class caster.

Of course, since I'm pretty sure that several classes/monsters get cleric spells on their arcane lists, casting "as a Naga or Gold Dragon class" could neatly allow you to double up on a single use of your ability.

---------------

Which may be easy for spells casted by non-spontaneous class (just steal the spellbook), but is a little trickier for spells only available to Bard/Assassin/other spontaneous arcane spellcasters.

Well, wizards can learn any spell from a scroll or spellbook, with the unstated assumption that they can only learn spells on their list (though a literal interpretation would allow them to learn ANY spell from ANY list).

By emulating cleric spells, they could easily pray for the divine version of a spell, write it down, then learn it as a wizard with a spell list from another class.

That's a bit of jiggery pokery, but its an argument that you can make to a DM with a straight face.

[Username17]

If you were going to concentrate on one of the lists, you'd go Divine, since it is in all ways better. No ASF. No Spellbooks. 2 good saves. More spell lists to choose from.

Sure it's cool to get Call Dretch Horde in your spellbook as a 3rd level spell, but it's so much more awesome to just pocket the entire Pestilence Domain with no spellbook at all.

Shugenjas need to learn spells and cast like a Sorcerer - but you get all their spells for free. It's sweet.

-Username17

[Falgund]

By emulating cleric spells, they could easily pray for the divine version of a spell, write it down, then learn it as a wizard with a spell list from another class.

Well, i was talking about Bard only or Assassin only spells, that have no divine equivalent ...

[User3]

As a Chameleon, you only get to prepare your divine spells at sunrise, so its not really worth focusing that direction when you can get two full refreshes per day off your Aptitude Focus class feature when you go arcane. The extra +2 to Fort and "no ASF" also is pretty meaningless compared to that.

Its also not clear if you get domain spell lists. Since those are a seperate class feature of clerics and some PrCs, I'd say that they don't come with Divine Focus of a standard cleric. If a class had a preset Domain, then you'd probably get it.

-----------------

Falgund, I'd be surprised if the Bard-only and Assasin-only spells weren't on someone's list. There are enough Holy Assasins of Some Random Dark God PrCs and Bard Light With Half the Suck of a Real Bard PrCs scattered through the books for all kinds of craziness.

[Username17]

If a class had a preset Domain, then you'd probably get it.

Good thing there's that dumbass Divine Champion class from Complete Divine that has a class spell list of one domain of your choice.

It's worthless as a class, but means that the Chameleon can have any domain list he wants as a class list.

-Username17

[User3]

Good thing there's that dumbass Divine Champion class from Complete Divine that has a class spell list of one domain of your choice.

Nice!

Like I said: last class I'll ever play.

[Wrenfield]

1103150472[/unixtime]]

If a class had a preset Domain, then you'd probably get it.

Good thing there's that dumbass Divine Champion class from Complete Divine that has a class spell list of one domain of your choice.

It's worthless as a class, but means that the Chameleon can have any domain list he wants as a class list.

-Username17

And of course, you would want to take the Spell domain (FRCS/PGtF) spells of Anyspell and Greater Anyspell so you can now cast 1st through 5th level arcane spells from *ANY* arcane spellcasting list as divine spells. Meaning neato spells like Teleport, Improvisation, etc. can all be cast while clad in full plate and with Divine Power up and running.

Yep, there is really no need at all to take the Arcane Focus over the Divine Focus.

[Essence]

Well, I was talking about Bard only or Assassin only spells...

...which the Chameleon can easily pray for on some day of downtime, scribe scrolls of, and then translate those scrolls into a spellbook.

So, to wit: the Chameleon can cast any divine spell as an arcane spell by scribing and transferring it, and any 5th-level-or-lower arcane spell as a divine spell via taking the Spell Domain as his "class list".

Yeah, you win.

[User3]

Just a quick note --- casting Anyspell and Greater Anyspell does entail having a spellbook in regards to choosing which arcane spells you wish to "anyspell".

[Username17]

Yes it does. There is, unfortunately, no way to cast Sniper's Eye without having a spellbook with Sniper's Eye in it.

However, you do get a spellbook of your own, like a Wizard, and therefore get 20 bonus spells off of any arcane spell list on your personal list - which should get you most of the stuff you really need.

-Username17

[Falgund]

Well, i never said it was impossible, i only said it was trickier ...

[User3]

Getting access to arcane spells is not really an issue when you can UMD one of the holified relic spellsbooks of Boccob(from Complete Divine). Pay for one item, get access to all arcane spells.