Is ajudicating Ventriloquism really that hard?

[User3]

Over the last few years, one spell that I see consistently causing arguments amongst players, DMs, and judges -- is the Ventriloquism spell.

Unlike the equally hard-to-ajudicate spells like figments, Ventriloquism's sound component never seems to have an agreed-upon interaction between DM and caster. Especially when Ventrilo is used to "distract" or "pre-occupy" enemies. Which there does not seem to be a consistent mechanic to use in ajudication issues.

Do any of you have any Ventriloquism stories, complaints, or advice on how to best use the spell?

Gracias!

[Username17]

What the spell does is allow you to create intelligible and accurate sounds of a person (including spellcasting sounds) appear from any point in space you designate within range. It does not allow the caster to hide his own voice, nor does it require the caster to be able to speak. It also does not allow a saving throw or listen check to determine that it is fake unless an enemy physically interacts with the source sound or spends an action searching the area it is in.

So it can allow a gagged character to talk normally.
It can "put words into an enemy's mouth", and only the guy who's being used as the fake source gets a saving throw.
It can be used to draw fire or provoke attackers.

It can't be used to hide the location of spellcasting. It really is an extremely simply spell that is useful enough to know and prepare, but not useful enough to prepare until you're primarily using 4th level spells and higher as your go-to effects.

It causes a lot of arguments because actual "ventriloquism" is the art of throwing your own voice, and the spell doesn't do that. It uses magic to create a new voice. It's Magic Mouth without the contingency effect for a 1st level spell.

-Username17

[erik]

1145649658[/unixtime]]It's Magic Mouth without the contingency effect for a 1st level spell.

That's pretty much how I rule use of Ventriloquism (or would do it if anyone ever cast it in any game I played in). This does remind me how fvcking fvcked Magic Mouth's contingecy effects can be.

I was planning on having an illusionist who would use Magic Mouth as a nifty utility/ward. It can be set to speak something if anyone other than a party member (or someone disguised as a party member) comes within range, making it a very nice mobile anti-ambush ward.

Unfortunately moving silently or disguising defeats its detection, with no explanation of how to resolve what should be opposed checks. So I presume that a gargantuan giant in full plate clanking along who attempts a move silently check will automatically succeed. And if he also attempts a disguise check to appear like a member of the party, Mr. Gargantuan giant is undetectable by the magic mouth.

A more frequent case of foiling a Magic Mouth ward could be this:
http://www.gamecritics.com/feature/prev ... page13.php [ok, questionable sneak-fu]

[Book]

You can use Ventriloquism to cast spells when your body is within a zone of silence or if your mouth becomes gagged somehow (assuming you already had it up and running or a continuous magic item on your body). That can be pretty handy.

The real ajudication issues that arise are when Ventriloquism is used to make sounds that may or may not compel enemies to want to investigate those sounds from a hidden source. Say your party is just ran into some orcs in a large underground room. During parlay, your wizard uses Ventriloquism to make a shadowy attached tunnel sound like there is an elven wizard inside of it who is cursing Gruumsh and threatening to kill all the orcs with his bow & arrow.

The DM is fully within his rights to decide how his orcs will respond to that. It's a gamble for the wizard - but it just might work in deflecting some of them off into the cave, and some of them off to fight the party.

[erik]

1145711059[/unixtime]]You can use Ventriloquism to cast spells when your body is within a zone of silence

I think you meant within the zone of a Silence spell. A Zone of Silence spell doesn't prohibit spellcasting unless you are using [Sonic] or [Language-Dependent] spells which you want to affect people outside of the zone.

[Zherog]

1145649658[/unixtime]]
It can "put words into an enemy's mouth", and only the guy who's being used as the fake source gets a saving throw.

Of course, the dude'll also look like his voice hs been dubbed into a bad Japanese monster movie....