Changing spells to spell-like abilities ... various methods?

[User3]

Now that there are a whole metric tonne of spell books out-n'-published by WotC and D20 publishers in general - I was wondering if any of you have any nifty ideas on the various optimized ways to convert your spells into (Sp) abilities.

Often, the first choice people look at when wanting to do so is to take a level of ArchMage from the DMG. But note the bolded part below ...

Spell-Like Ability: An archmage who selects this type of high arcana can use one of her arcane spell slots (other than a slot expended to learn this or any other type of high arcana) to permanently prepare one of her arcane spells as a spell-like ability that can be used twice per day. The archmage does not use any components when casting the spell, although a spell that costs XP to cast still does so and a spell with a costly material component instead costs her 10 times that amount in XP. This ability costs one 5th-level spell slot. The spell-like ability normally uses a spell slot of the spell’s level, although the archmage can choose to make a spell modified by a metamagic feat into a spell-like ability at the appropriate spell level.

Bleh. That sucks. It basically means you can't efficiently convert Stoneskin into a (Sp). Which is what I would like to be able to do.

Any other suggestions on how to go about getting a spell with "costly material components" turned into a (Sp)?

Thanks!

[Fwib]

Innate Spell from Complete Arcane, or Innate Spell from Player's Guide to Faerûn - the former being very expensive in the spell slot you need to burn to get it at-will, and still costing xp, but expensive components are replaced by 50x expensive focus instead, and the latter giving only 3x/day and costing a slot of the level of the spell to be cast, but otherwise the same.

I realise that since these feats have the same name, one may well consider the former to override the latter, but since they are notably different, your DM may allow it.

There is also a rune-casting PrC in Races of Stone, I think - which gives you a spell as 'permanent rune' which I think is a couple times a day with no component cost.

And the rune-PrC in FRCS? can make 1/day runes, which have I think an up-front cost, but no continuing cost.

Good luck.

[Username17]

If you are willing to use spells from the schools of Conjuration, Evocation, or Necromancy, it can be quite worthwhile to spellstitch yourself. Just become Undead in some way that doesn't cost Level Allowance (for example: Necropolitan, maybe Lich), and then pump your Wisdom up to 19 and spend the XP to get the spellstitched template. Then never stop laughing.

Of course, if you just want DR, it is in no way worth monkeying around with stone skin or the like. It's a spell that was severely crippled in 3rd edition because it was completely game defining in 2nd edition AD&D (people constructed siege engines based on the mechanics of running out stone skin, it was dumb). Instead you should just be a Druid and take one of the expnded wildshape feats and transform into something with the DR you want. I realize that's the answer to every question involving the player wanting some nice hing that player characters are arbitrarily not allowed to have - but that's Ed Stark for you.

-Username17

[Fwib]

Is there a published LA for the Spellstitched template anywhere?

I googled a bit, but couldnt find one.

[Username17]

You don't get a LA for applying the Spellstitched Template to yourself. You pay XP, and you get power, like making magic items (actually exactly like magic items because you need Craft Wondrous). It's supposed to be balanced on that basis, but of course it isn't.

The problem with Level Allowance adjustments is that its difficult to imagine something that would be worth losing a level at 8th level that;s also worth losing a level at 11th level. That and the level adjustments themselves are universally crazy-go-nuts too large.

The problem with spending XP for power without gaining a level adjustment is that being lower level in a real sense causes you to accumulate XP more quickly - which in turn will eventually causes your character to catch up in level to the characters who never spent XP - and still have bonus power to show for it.

Basically every method they've come up with for shuffling power around in terms of XP has been a dismal failure. Taking LA hits is shitty beyond imagining and spendning XP on raw power like the Necropolitan, Spellstitching, or Ritual of Vitality is simply too good to pass up.

-Username17

[User3]

Thanks for all the great replies.

First ... some things:

1. PGtF's version of Innate Spell is totally better than CA's. Yet as Fwib stated, CA came out later -- and they are both markedly different. Now, since both feats have the same name, are we obligated to follow WotC's dictate that the newest version always replaces the oldest?

2. The Runesmith (again, as Fwib stated) does indeed do the job. Ya gotta be a Dwarf wiz or sorc though. And the RoS's example character looks illegal. He took ArmProf: Heavy without the prereqs.

3. The Runecaster PrC is also cool in its Per Day Usage run items. Having seen the Runecaster mentioned before on this forum (I think Frank and his Archer Cleric Rune-Buffer), this PrC seems to have a lot of interesting potential for the rules-savvy min-maxer.

4. The Spellstitched Necropolitan looks interesting. Although with the +1 ECL of the template, I'd be more inclined to use it for a WIS-based non-primary spellcaster who gets WIS stat-to-X on his other class benefits. That way you can get all those spells (up to 6th level!) as (Sp) and still kick some ass.

---------------------------

Some other spells I feel would be worthwhile to convert to (Sp) would be Fabricate, Legend Lore, Shalantha's Delicate Disk, etc.

[Username17]

4. The Spellstitched Necropolitan looks interesting. Although with the +1 ECL of the template, I'd be more inclined to use it for a WIS-based non-primary spellcaster who gets WIS stat-to-X on his other class benefits. That way you can get all those spells (up to 6th level!) as (Sp) and still kick some ass.

Neither Spellstitched nor Necropolitan have an ECL adjustment. Necropolitan costs you a level to get it, but it doesn't penalize you after that. Unlike a level adjustment template, becoming a Necropolitan reduces your level and then causes you to accumulate XP faster as if you had lost a level (which of course, you did). So in a few levels you'll catch up to the other players.

So in a once-off game Necropolitan has a real cost (you adventure one level lower today). But in the long term it has no cost (8 sessions from now you'll be the same level as everyone else). It's the opposite of becoming a Vampire, which gives you a huge LA and doesn't reduce your real class levels at all - so in a once-off game you'll have more power for no reason, but in a long term campaign you'll eventually have to start a new character (since you'll have been gaining XP at the rate of a character 8 levels higher than the rest of the party, which means you don't gain XP at all, and you need to collect enough XP to go up 9 levels before you gain your next class level, which aint going to happen in the next year of gaming).

-Username17

[Fwib]

Ummm... necropolitan does have a published LA - it has " - (see below)"
and below, it says "same as the base creature", by which I assume they mean 'plus zero'.

Spellstitched on the other hand, just says 'Level Adjustment -'

Re: your earlier post decrying LA as a system for power-balance - I totally agree that the 'correct LA' for a template or creature varies a lot with level and other factors - it is a pity that the only system for dealing with that printed officially by WotC that I know of is the very bad LA-buyoff in UA

[User3]

Complete Arcane has specific rules for adding Spellstitched to a character. It costs a certain amount of XP, but has no level adjustment. Which either means that your character immediately becomes an NPC after following the given rules to apply it to itself, or it really means '- (see above).'

[Fwib]

I guess I shall mail questions@wizards.com (not that they ever replied to me before)

[MrWaeseL]

They will reply, and it will be Hilarious. Perhaps you can trick them into giving an answer that contradicts itself?

[Fwib]

I surely wish that you will be right - to date, custserv have never replied to me, either yea, or nay.

[Username17]

Custserv is quite puppetable if that's what you want to do. Here's a way to amuse yourself:

Ask, on separate days with different accounts, the following questions:

"My player is looking to place a template on himself, but the listed LA is "-"! Am I right in saying that at best he'd become an NPC? It seems like it wasn't meant for player characters to have."

"When a player gains access to a template or ritual with an XP cost, what's their level adjustment? There's a couple of them where the player pays XP to get the bonus, but then there's no listed LA (or the listed LA is a rather unhelpful "-". In those cases, should we assume the LA defaults to +1? +0?"

I can almost guaranty answers to those two questions that are completely incompatible. Good times.

-Username17

[Fwib]

If I get an answer, I shall definitely post it.