The limit of infinite choices fallacy.

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Username17
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The limit of infinite choices fallacy.

Post by Username17 »

This is important:

Unearthed Arcana wrote:A 1st-level monk (regardless of character level) may select one of the fighting styles listed below. By selecting one of these fighting styles, you dictate which bonus feats you gain at 1st, 2nd, and 6th level (when a monk normally gains one of two bonus feats as listed in the Player's Handbook). In addition, you get a +2 bonus on a single skill at 1st level (in exchange for the versatility you give up by preselecting your bonus feats).


Anybody spot the fallacy?

It goes like this: as your choices of "fighting styles" goes up (there are currently a whole mess of them in Dragon Magazine, for example, and there will doubtless be more) - the "versatility" you are giving up goes down.

Or to put it another way: when you get a bonus feat, you don't get "any bonus feat", you actually just get one bonus feat, which is a specific actual feat off the list. Once chosen, it is set in stone and isn't any better or different than a bonus that was pre-selected for you (so long as it happened to be the same feat).

When you choose a Fighting Style, you actually are not giving up any versatility at all, provided that you choose the Fighting Style that comes uses the bonus feats you were going to take anyway.

Now, as we know, the monk as written is severely underpowered, so giving him a +2 bonus to some arbitrary skill at first level isn't about to break anything. Not by a long shot. But the concept that preselecting your bonus feats off a list is somehow "less versatile" than simply being handed bonus feats off the same list is absurd. In either case the number of feats off the list you get is exactly the same. Unless some of the feats are under- or overpowered, nothing has actually changed.

-Username17
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Josh_Kablack
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Re: The limit of infinite choices fallacy.

Post by Josh_Kablack »

But of course money is worth less AFTER you spend it. :bored:
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User3
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Re: The limit of infinite choices fallacy.

Post by User3 »

I have also seen some players choose their feats as they go without any respect to build.

For these players, this option does limit "versitility" because it forces them to choose features of their build up front, and as such actually have a decent shot of (more or less accidentally) creating a worthwhile buld.

For these (relatively novice) gamers, this sort of option forces them to think ahead, and I think that is a good thing. And while I agree that there is not net loss of "versitility" for these players, their perception is that they are indeed locked into a decision. They just don't realize that not deciding ahead of time leads to suck-butt characters.
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Desdan_Mervolam
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Re: The limit of infinite choices fallacy.

Post by Desdan_Mervolam »

Fighting styles need to be handled entirely as feat trees, just feat trees that may or may not have being a monk as a prerequisite (Though I can't imagine why). There is absolutly no reason why a monk cannot have multiple styles, or cannot finish a style early if they have all the prerequisites, or late for that matter if nessessity dictates that one or more branches in the tree must be postponed in order to take another feat. I'm serious about this, a monk shouldn't have to give up ANY versatility to have a more distinctive fighting style.

-Desdan
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Crissa
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Re: The limit of infinite choices fallacy.

Post by Crissa »

Well, there is that part of versatility where you want Feat A at level 3, but you still get suck with Still Mind, no matter how useless it is to your character at that level...

...So there is a manner of versatility you are losing.

-Crissa

[Edit: I meant 'stuck' instead of suck, but I guess it works better this way. Nevermind my editing.]
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