Bahamut's Budies...Platinum Knight vs Vassal of Bahamut

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Count Arioch the 28th
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Re: Bahamut's Buddies...Platinum Knight vs Vassal of Bahamut

Post by Count Arioch the 28th »

Actually, I know of quite a few groups that go around wihtout benefitting from Prayer. Not every group is fighter/rogue/cleric/wizard.
In this moment, I am Ur-phoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my int score.
Username17
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Re: Bahamut's Buddies...Platinum Knight vs Vassal of Bahamut

Post by Username17 »

Count wrote:Actually, I know of quite a few groups that go around wihtout benefitting from Prayer. Not every group is fighter/rogue/cleric/wizard.

However, no class should have their abilities simply dissappear because someone else happens to be playing a core class.

So if you design a class which is only of any use if one of te other players is not a Cleric, that's bad design. Really bad design.

And definitionally underpowered as well, as it isn't like Clerics don't also serve other functions as well. If the best your class can do is have the same bonuses personally that a Cleric can give your whole party - it sucks.

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Galahad_Knight
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Re: Bahamut's Buddies...Platinum Knight vs Vassal of Bahamut

Post by Galahad_Knight »

Well, after some discussion and, well, prodding, from Maj I've decided to post my alternate alternate Vassal of Bahamut.


The Vassal of Bahamut

Requirements
To qualify as a Vassal of Bahamut, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.

Alignment: Lawful Good
Base Attack Bonus: +7
Craft: Armorsmithing 5 ranks
Diplomacy 5 ranks
Language: Draconic
Special:Must have single-handedly slain a chromatic dragon of young adult age or older

Hit Die: d10

Class Skills
The Vassal of Bahamut's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge: Nobility and Royalty (Int), Knowledge: Religion (Int), Ride (Dex), and Sense Motive (Wis).

Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Code: Select all

Lvl  BAB   F/R/W   Special                                    Spells[br]                                                              1    2    3    4[br]1st  +1  +2/+0/+0  Evasion, Platinum Armor                    -    -    -    -[br]2nd  +2  +3/+0/+0  Imperious Aura, Bonus Feat                 0    -    -    -[br]3rd  +3  +3/+1/+1  Dragon Senses, Platinum Armor +1           1    0    -    -[br]4th  +4  +4/+1/+1  Dragonwrack +2d6/1d6                       1    1    -    -[br]5th  +5  +4/+1/+1  Bonus Feat, Improved Evasion               1    1    0    -[br]6th  +6  +5/+2/+2  Platinum Armor +2, Draconic Magic Affinity 1    1    1    -[br]7th  +7  +5/+2/+2  Dragonwrack +3d6/1d6, Know Thy Enemy       2    1    1    0[br]8th  +8  +6/+2/+2  Bonus Feat, Fear Immunity                  2    2    1    1[br]9th  +9  +6/+3/+3  Enhanced Dragon Senses, Platinum Armor +3  2    2    1    1[br]10th +10 +7/+3/+3  Heroic Fortitude, Dragonwrack +4d6/2d6     2    2    2    1[br][br]


Class Features
All of the following are class features of the Vassal of Bahamut prestige class.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Vassals of Bahamut are proficient with all simple and martial weapons. They are also proficient with all armor, and with all shields except the tower shield.

Spells: Beginning at 2nd level, a Vassal of Bahamut gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells. To cast a spell, the Vassal must have a Wisdom score of at least 10 + spell level, and prepares and casts just like a cleric except he cannot spontaneously cast Cure spells.

The following are the spells available to a Vassal of Bahamut:
  • 1st level - Bless, Bless Weapon, Cure Light Wounds, Divine Favor, Endure Elements, Lantern Light, Protection Against Evil, Shield of Faith
  • 2nd level - Align Weapon, Bear's Endurance, Bull's Strength, Change Self, Cure Moderate Wounds, Resist Energy, Shield Other, Undetectable Alignment
  • 3rd level - Cure Serious Wounds, Discern Lies, Magic Circle Against Evil, Protection From Energy, Refreshment, Searing Light
  • 4th level - Cure Critial Wounds, Dispel Evil, Divination, Divine Power, Holy Sword, Tongues


Evasion: At first level the Vassal of Bahamut gains Evasion. Though in this case it represents the luck of Bahamut more than sharpened reflexes on the part of the Vassal.

Platinum Armor: A Vassal of Bahamut is granted the ability to create platinum scale mail from the hide of a slain chromatic dragon of young adult age or older. It takes one week to work the scales into a wearable suit of masterwork platinum armor (plus an additional two days per point of enhancement bonus the Vassal of Bahamut is capable of investing in his armor). During this time, the Vassal must not engage in any other activities other than eating and sleeping. The finished masterwork suit of armor weighs 25 pounts and confers a +8 armor bonus. Its other properties are as a masterwork chain shirt (+4 Max Dex, -1 Armor Check Penalty, 20% Arcane Spell Failure, no speed reduction). Only the creator of the armor may wear it, which instantly turns to dust if donned by another creature. The Vassal may replace a lost suit using scales from a slain juvenile (or older) red dragon, as noted above, but can craft no more than one such suit at a time. The Vassal's platinum armor may be enhanced using standard item creation feats.

At 3rd level, the Vassal's platinum armor serves as a conduit for the protective blessing of Bahamut. If the Vassal spends an additional two days praying and working his armor, it gains an enhancement bonus of +1. This bonus can increase by one point every three levels thereafter if the Vassal invests an additional two days in working his armor for each point of bonus added.

Imperious Aura: The Vassal of Bahamut gains a bonus equal to his class level on all Charisma-based skill checks made against dragons and dragon-type creatures (such as wyverns).

Bonus Feat: At 2nd, 5th and 8th levels the Vassal of Bahamut gains a bonus feat off the Fighter's list of bonus feats, or any metamagic feat for which he qualifies.

Dragon Senses: The Vassal of Bahamut gain the ability to see four times as well as a human in low-light conditions, twice as well as a human in normal light. He also gains darkvision out to 120 feet.

Improved Evasion: At 5th level the Vassal of Bahamut gains Improved evasion as bahamut's blessing grows stronger.

Draconic Magic Affinity: Any spell the Vassal of Bahamut casts on a dragon has its effects maximized as if by the Maximize Spell metamagic feat.

Dragonwrack: At fourth level, a Vassal of Bahamut deals 2d6 points of damage with each successful melee attack made against an evil dragon. Further more, any creature that strikes the Vassal with a natural or melee weapon takes 1d6 points of damage. In both cases, half this bonus damage is permanent hit point drain. Only a Wish or Miracle can restore hit points drained permanently by the ability. At 7th level, these bonuses increase to +3d6/1d6 and at 10th leve, to +4d6/2d6.

Know Thy Enemy: At 7th level the Vassal of Bahamut may now add his class level to Sense Motive rolls made against dragons.

Fear Immunity: At 8th level the Vassal of Bahamut becomes truely able to laugh in the face of fear. Hencefourth he is immune to all fear effects.

Enhanced Dragon Senses: The Vassal of Bahamut becomes more dragon-like. He gains blindsight to the range of his darkvision.

Heroic Fortitude: By 10th level, the Vassal of Bahamut has become so tough and fearless that he shrugs off even the most powerful hazards and faces them head on. As such he may now bake Fortitude saves in place of Reflex saves to resist damaging effects. (He could use it to shrug off a breath weapon or fireball, but not to avoid a pit trap, for instance). Furthermore, his improved evasion still applies, even if Fortitude is used in place of Reflexes. This represents an amazing ability to shrug off damage rather than managing to be in the right place to avoid damage.
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Maj
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Re: Bahamut's Buddies...Platinum Knight vs Vassal of Bahamut

Post by Maj »

I don't know that a mere +3 bonus to armor is a good thing at 16th character level...

And level four still seems a bit weak...

And does Evasion only work in Platinum armor (because it's light), or does it work regardless of what kind of armor you're wearing?
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Username17
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Re: Bahamut's Buddies...Platinum Knight vs Vassal of Bahamut

Post by Username17 »

Note that other people get +1 bonuses to their armor for every three levels (Craft Arms and Armor) or every four levels (Magic vestment).

But that's total levels. This character's "first level" is actually level 8. Which means that he's seven levels behind the times on enchanting armor before he even starts.

Remember, especially on armor enchanting - which is done during down time - if you can't do it at least as well as any other character in your party you may as well not be able to do it. It doesn't actually make very much difference who's spplying the Item Creation feat - since characters can jolly well share out the XP drain regardless.

That +1 through +3 enhancement bonus realy has a value of zero. Not "a little bit", not "a decent minor ability". Nope - it has no value at all. It's just wasted space on the sheet.

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Galahad_Knight
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Re: Bahamut's Buddies...Platinum Knight vs Vassal of Bahamut

Post by Galahad_Knight »

The platinum armor is light, so it works with it. Though I suppose I should mention that the 10th level version would work no matter what you're wearing since you don't have to be mobile.

Anyhow, as to the armor bonus <shrug> It's *free*

It's not like it's impossible to go and get your platinum armor enchanted further. You're not stuck in a measly +3 suit of armor at 16th level, you've got a badass suit of armor with a free +3 bonus in addition to whatever you want to pay to stick on it.

And as for magic vestment...you can't count on spells all the time.
Being able to cast magic vestment is NOT a class ability that gives you a bonus to your armor.
It's a spell that gives you a bonus to your armor.

A spell that can be dispelled, countered, disrupted, substituted or even not prepared. ANd, of course, it also has a limited duration (A long one, granted, but still limited)

But if it'd make you feel better, how about we change it to a Deflection bonus? Doesn't make a lick of difference to me.
Now there's absolutely no gray area as to whether or not you can enchant it or bolster it with spells.
Jack_Lurch
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Re: Bahamut's Buddies...Platinum Knight vs Vassal of Bahamut

Post by Jack_Lurch »

Nevermind, I started a thread to talk about it.

-Jack
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Re: Bahamut's Budies...Platinum Knight vs Vassal of Bahamut

Post by User3 »

per Frank_Trollman wrote:Interesting note: in 3.5 you don't lose class abilities of PrCs if you lose the prereqs of the class. In fact, you don't even lose the ability to take more levels of that class.

not true, Frank. see page 16 of the Complete Warrior book.

not sure what happens if a Blackguard becomes "good". Or a Harper Mage loses his familiar (and thereby, Alertness feat). the PHB/DMG really needs to clarify this.
Username17
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Re: Bahamut's Budies...Platinum Knight vs Vassal of Bahamut

Post by Username17 »

not true, Frank. see page 16 of the Complete Warrior book.


I've seen it, it directly contradicts what the 3.5 DMG says class prereqs are for - which is to say taking the first level only.

The Complete Warrior is off its rocker, carrying a reprint from 3rd edition rules on page 16 - that happens several times in that book and does not constitute a rescinding of 3.5 rules but rather a misprint in the Complete Warrior.

The errata for the 3.5 core books has come out, and so far it has not included any reference to losing your abilities because you lose prereqs. So any non core books which mention that are either talking class specific rules or are wrong.

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