[Politics] Abortion Failure Megathread

Mundane & Pointless Stuff I Must Share: The Off Topic Forum

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Psychic Robot
Prince
Posts: 4607
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 10:47 pm

Post by Psychic Robot »

goddamnit
tzor you fucking retard why would you suck the dick of the rich like that. raising payroll taxes is a wonderful way to fuck over the poor and middle class, you stupid shit. the way we fund social security and medicare is piss-poor and a fantastic example about how the government manages to fuck up everything it touches, but reagan was a shitty fuckstain who raped the american dream with his reckless keynesianism. learning about reagan's policies was the defining moment when I stopped being a republican. it wasn't the war in iraq or the tea party or sarah palin or george bush or the recent republican obstructionism, it was reagan. and all of those other things are a pretty good reason to be embarrassed about american conservatism. but ronald reagan was the tipping point. it was him that made me realize that the republican party was corrupt at its core and needed to be purged

FDR and LBJ's big government policies were less bad than reagan's because while they created a class of people entirely dependent on the government, they were at least aimed at helping the poor. reagan's were targeted at helping the rich and the big corporations at the expense of the poor and middle class.

tzor you retarded shitpig
sorry reagan makes me rage. out of all the godless whores in office, he ranks as one of the worst. I miss eisenhower. if we can't have ron paul, we need to have ike back.
Last edited by Psychic Robot on Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
Count Arioch wrote:I'm not sure how discussions on whether PR is a terrible person or not is on-topic.
Ant wrote:
Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?
You do not seem to do anything.
K
King
Posts: 6487
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by K »

wotmaniac wrote:@K
what are you talking about? Nobody on this thread is talking about rape victims. That was always a provision everywhere before Roe v. Wade. Hell, the whole premise for that case was that Mrs. "Roe" was gonna cry rape so that she could get the legal abortion.

Thanks for the strawman, doucetard.
Oh, and thank Psychic Robot for the stat check.
Sixty percent of rapes are not reported to the police. Medical providers are forced to call the police when abortions are requested because of rape, so women don't tell them. This is why very few women actually say that they want an abortion due to rape and why even compiling statistics is difficult (though I found that most statistics that said that 50% of pregnant rape victims get abortions... way to fail on the internet Psychic Robot since you seemed to have stopped at the pro-life propaganda on the first few pages of Google....here's a hint, when it says something like prolifeamerica.com, it's probably horribly slanted propaganda or outright lies... conservative groups are not good with math or science or economics on the whole since they single source and source disreputable stuff).

There is also "consensual" sex where women are getting the hell beaten out of them by husbands and boyfriends. It's not considered rape when your boyfriend who beats you gets you to have sex, even if you are doing because you are afraid of a beating.

Your fundamental lack of empathy is staggering. The world must be a frightening place for you which is why you want to make life decisions about other people's lives.
Last edited by K on Fri Jul 01, 2011 6:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Psychic Robot
Prince
Posts: 4607
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 10:47 pm

Post by Psychic Robot »

when your argument is
There is also "consensual" sex where women are getting the hell beaten out of them by husbands and boyfriends.
then you have no argument. SEE ALL THESE WOMEN ARE GETTING BEATEN AND FORCED INTO SEX BY THEIR HUSBANDS AND THEY'RE BEING ENSLAVED BY THE PATRIARCHY NO STOP LAUGHING I'M SERIOUS GUYS
Last edited by Psychic Robot on Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
Count Arioch wrote:I'm not sure how discussions on whether PR is a terrible person or not is on-topic.
Ant wrote:
Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?
You do not seem to do anything.
DSMatticus
King
Posts: 5271
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:32 am

Post by DSMatticus »

Psychic_Robot wrote:SEE ALL THESE WOMEN ARE GETTING BEATEN AND FORCED INTO SEX BY THEIR HUSBANDS AND THEY'RE BEING ENSLAVED BY THE PATRIARCHY NO STOP LAUGHING I'M SERIOUS GUYS
So, your response is, "lol, physical abuse, silly women." The actual numbers for women that experience domestic violence sometime during their lifetime is 20-25%. Are you insinuating that this is a statistically insignificant number as to be unimportant? Or do you just not think women being beaten is important?
K
King
Posts: 6487
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by K »

Psychic Robot wrote:
when your argument is this
There is also "consensual" sex where women are getting the hell beaten out of them by husbands and boyfriends.
then you have no argument. SEE ALL THESE WOMEN ARE GETTING BEATEN AND FORCED INTO SEX BY THEIR HUSBANDS AND THEY'RE BEING ENSLAVED BY THE PATRIARCHY NO STOP LAUGHING I'M SERIOUS GUYS
Sigh. Thanks for proving my point by thinking that domestic abuse is something that people laugh at.

One in four women are victims of domestic abuse. Half are victims of rape or forced sex that can't be prosecuted.
User avatar
Psychic Robot
Prince
Posts: 4607
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 10:47 pm

Post by Psychic Robot »

The actual numbers for women that experience domestic violence sometime during their lifetime is 20-25%. Are you insinuating that this is a statistically insignificant number as to be unimportant? Or do you just not think women being beaten is important?
what about all the battered men out there who don't report the crimes perpetrated against them? oh wait I don't care. if a man gets beat up by a woman, he needs to grow a pair. if a woman gets beat up by a man, then she needs to get out of the relationship or take boxing lessons like jennifer lopez in that shitty movie. if someone chooses to stay in an abusive relationship then I have little sympathy to spare.
Count Arioch wrote:I'm not sure how discussions on whether PR is a terrible person or not is on-topic.
Ant wrote:
Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?
You do not seem to do anything.
K
King
Posts: 6487
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by K »

Psychic Robot wrote:
The actual numbers for women that experience domestic violence sometime during their lifetime is 20-25%. Are you insinuating that this is a statistically insignificant number as to be unimportant? Or do you just not think women being beaten is important?
what about all the battered men out there who don't report the crimes perpetrated against them? oh wait I don't care. if a man gets beat up by a woman, he needs to grow a pair. if a woman gets beat up by a man, then she needs to get out of the relationship or take boxing lessons like jennifer lopez in that shitty movie. if someone chooses to stay in an abusive relationship then I have little sympathy to spare.
Yes, we get it. You are an awful human being with no empathy and you've proved it. There is no need to hammer it home again and again.
Last edited by K on Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Psychic Robot
Prince
Posts: 4607
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 10:47 pm

Post by Psychic Robot »

you are a pitiful human being who projects his weakness onto others
Count Arioch wrote:I'm not sure how discussions on whether PR is a terrible person or not is on-topic.
Ant wrote:
Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?
You do not seem to do anything.
DSMatticus
King
Posts: 5271
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:32 am

Post by DSMatticus »

Psychic_robot wrote:what about all the battered men out there who don't report the crimes perpetrated against them? oh wait I don't care. if a man gets beat up by a woman, he needs to grow a pair.
Less than 5-10%.

The main problem is that your ideas are bullshit non-solutions. "Some women are being abused by men, and some men are being abused by women. Instead of making it socially acceptable and legally feasible for these women/men to press charges, thus solving the problem, I'm going to laugh at them and tell them to man up and have an aggressive confrontation with the person who routinely fucking beats them." The problem is you aren't providing them any other option than to be afraid of their abusive partner, because everytime they try to get help to safely leave the relationship, people like you scoff and laugh at them for being in the relationship in the first place.

You're a disgusting human being and too stupid to realize you are the source of the problem you're bitching about. You've got this horribly warped, fucked up perspective where you mock them for being in the relationship yet refuse to give them the means to safely leave and this seems like a reasonable, intelligent position to you.
K
King
Posts: 6487
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by K »

Psychic Robot wrote:you are a pitiful human being who projects his weakness onto others
I'm confused. I know that you are trying to insult me, but I have no idea what the insult actually is about.

Do you consider my empathy for rape and domestic abuse victims a weakness and it makes me pitiful? Or do you think that I should instead want to force rape and domestic abuse victims to have their attacker's children to toughen them up? Should I want them to magically empower themselves despite decades of research that says that humans subject to rape and domestic abuse don't work that way?

I'm actually interested. Meeting sociopaths is like watching car wrecks.... it's hard to take your eyes away.
Last edited by K on Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Psychic Robot
Prince
Posts: 4607
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 10:47 pm

Post by Psychic Robot »

You're a disgusting human being
go on
and too stupid
no
to realize you are the source of the problem you're bitching about.
I'm not beating anyone so I'm really not
You've got this horribly warped, fucked up perspective where you mock them for being in the relationship
no I mocked K not a battered woman
yet refuse to give them the means to safely leave
I fail to see how abortion is giving anyone the means to leave a relationship except in a few edge cases
I'm confused. I know that you are trying to insult me, but I have no idea what the insult actually is about.
as a leftist, you see everyone as a victim. nobody is strong enough to succeed on his or her own; society is always impeding success and anyone who has achieved greatness through diligence has benefited due to "privilege" or some nonsense. ergo, you constantly project your own weakness onto society.

the "empathy" you feel is just self-congratulatory sniveling, an attempt at feeding your own ego. OF COURSE I FEEL EMPATHY FOR RAPE AND DOMESTIC ABUSE VICTIMS, I'M PRO CHOICE. you are merely attempting to satisfy your own sense of moral superiority.

see here's the deal. imagine tzor posting something like OF COURSE I DON'T SUPPORT MURDER, I'M PRO-LIFE. obviously that statement is bad--not in the sense of being factually incorrect or morally wrong, but stupid--because it would be him patting himself on the back and thinking "heh I'm better than those babykiller dumbocrats"

and that's why abortion debates are stupid
Count Arioch wrote:I'm not sure how discussions on whether PR is a terrible person or not is on-topic.
Ant wrote:
Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?
You do not seem to do anything.
K
King
Posts: 6487
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by K »

Psychic Robot wrote: as a leftist, you see everyone as a victim. nobody is strong enough to succeed on his or her own; society is always impeding success and anyone who has achieved greatness through diligence has benefited due to "privilege" or some nonsense. ergo, you constantly project your own weakness onto society.

the "empathy" you feel is just self-congratulatory sniveling, an attempt at feeding your own ego. OF COURSE I FEEL EMPATHY FOR RAPE AND DOMESTIC ABUSE VICTIMS, I'M PRO CHOICE. you are merely attempting to satisfy your own sense of moral superiority.
Well, the Just World Fallacy ranting is pretty pedestrian, but it is interesting that you think the only reason to have empathy for rape and domestic abuse victims is to display moral superiority or some other self-serving reason.

If you don't use logic or empathy to make meaningful choices, what do you use? Self-interest?

If it is self-interest, what's your stake in the abortion debate? Are you afraid women will abort your children?
DSMatticus
King
Posts: 5271
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 5:32 am

Post by DSMatticus »

Psychic_Robot wrote:as a leftist, you see everyone as a victim. nobody is strong enough to succeed on his or her own; society is always impeding success and anyone who has achieved greatness through diligence has benefited due to "privilege" or some nonsense. ergo, you constantly project your own weakness onto society.
Here, let's flip this around: as a rightist, you stupidly think everyone succeeds on their own merits and qualities, and that social circumstances and pressures have no influence on people's actual ability to succeed. In the same way that losing your legs won't stop you from winning a marathon.

Or maybe instead of swinging to a polar extreme of either, you can recognize that individuals are individuals and they have individual social circumstances and individual qualities, and what happens to them in life is a combination of both of those things. And minimizing the harmful effects of society on individuals and maximizing the beneficial effects is a good thing, and actually necessary, or else you end up social circumstances that encourage women to stay in abusive relationships for fear of their life or having no other option except to have to leave their home, life, and career to go hide from someone they may rationally or irrationally fear is going to kill them.

P.S., this is the reality of the world; success IS heavily dependent on social circumstances. Percentage of minorities in America? 27.6%. Percentage of minority, say, doctors in America? 6%. That's social circumstances, by definition. If you're suggesting people succeed only on their own merits and flaws, you are retarded and flat-out emprically wrong. Or, in terms of the U.S. at least, you're a white supremacist. Take your pick of these two unsavory things, because they are the only things that make the shit you say make sense.
Neeeek
Knight-Baron
Posts: 900
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 10:45 am

Post by Neeeek »

Psychic Robot wrote:you are a pitiful human being who projects his weakness onto others
The "you" being referenced is K, right?

Huh. See, I actually know K. He's the toughest guy I've ever met. He's certainly the only guy I've ever encountered who has gotten shot and made the other guy run away. If you think his compassion is weakness, then...I'm not sure how to finish that sentence without suggesting you kill yourself, so I'll just end it here.
User avatar
RobbyPants
King
Posts: 5201
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:11 pm

Post by RobbyPants »

wotmaniac wrote:
RobbyPants wrote:
wotmaniac wrote: living human being = human DNA + heartbeat (seems fairly straight forward to me)
So, how does this work for people who recently suffered a heart attack (or whatever) and CPR? Or do you mean that distinction only pertains to those inside the womb?
strawman.
the default assumption (legally; medical ethics; etc.) is that if the life can be saved, then it will be. the usual exception is in the case of a DNR -- which isn't really applicable in this situation.
Well, maybe that's not what you meant, but it's what you said. A better response would have been to clarify your stance on what equals a "living human being". Per your definition, the guy with a heart attack stops being a living human, so your quip about saving the life is a non-sequitur.

wotmaniac wrote: This finally brings me around to the larger issue at hand -- personal responsibility.
there has been an alarmingly increasing trend over the last 50+ years that says that people shouldn't have to be responsible for their actions/decisions. We are constantly barraged with the idea that we don't have to take responsibility for anything, and that nothing is our fault; that we can be as irresponsible as we want with impunity.
Strawman.

I don't see anyone here touting the virtues of irresponsibility. I personally don't want to see people punished for long periods of time due to decisions they couldn't make (rape) or ones they didn't fully understand. And if you make abortion legal for rape victims and not others, people will just lie to get abortions (and possibly accuse innocent people of rape to get one). I don't like the thought of a woman using abortion as a contraceptive, but there's no way to enforce that without punishing rape victims and/or guys in consensual relationships.
PhoneLobster
King
Posts: 6403
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by PhoneLobster »

RobbyPants wrote:I don't see anyone here touting the virtues of irresponsibility.
While that may be true there are however SOME irresponsibilities we SHOULD tout.

Like recreational sex. Every time a woman does it she MIGHT end up pregnant. Even with the most sensible, reasonable, responsible, even paranoid of contraceptive measures there is a small measurable chance of pregnancy.

And while individually people don't have all that much sex that ALL of them eventually fall into the tiny margin of accidental pregnancies... collectively society as a whole has a whole fucking lot of recreational sex and the small percentage once applied to society as a whole of accidental pregnancies DESPITE very "responsible" precautions... ends up with a whole fucking lot of unwanted pregnancies.

Now we have a number of ways we could deal with it. Society HAS chosen the one they want they like...

Option A) Society likes lots of recreational sex, and when contraception fails reasonable, safe, and perfectly ethical options including abortion are available. The alternative's of both unwanted pregnancies OR much less recreational sex are BOTH abominations in the eyes of society and rightly so.

Tzor however wants either...

Option B) Society changes it's mind and decides to keep the lots and lots of recreational sex but NOT eliminate any unwanted pregnancies that slip through the contraception net (that Tzor also wants to weaken at the same time). This results in the torture of countless women forced to bear children to term, rusty coat hanger deaths in countless numbers, and orphans and poverty stricken unwanted children in similar vast numbers. Because when you multiply "a tiny chance" by "all of society doing it all the time" you get very big numbers.

Or his probable preference...
Option C) Society abandons all that recreational sex. Yeah. Really...

And so yes. There is the virtue of irresponsibility, if you can call the very small chance of the accidental pregnancy with contraception "irresponsible" which Tzor and co regularly DO. And I for one "tout" the general availability of lots of recreational sex for everyone as a virtue we should all be proud of and should fight to protect.
Last edited by PhoneLobster on Fri Jul 01, 2011 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Phonelobster's Self Proclaimed Greatest Hits Collection : (no really, they are awesome)
violence in the media
Duke
Posts: 1725
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:18 pm

Post by violence in the media »

You know, I was going to comment on wotmaniac's responsibility tirade, but you beat me to it PL. Well said.
Koumei
Serious Badass
Posts: 13879
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: South Ausfailia

Post by Koumei »

PhoneLobster wrote:And I for one "tout" the general availability of lots of recreational sex for everyone as a virtue we should all be proud of and should fight to protect.
Likewise. If people can't have lots of recreational sex, THEN THE TERRORISTS WIN.
Count Arioch the 28th wrote:There is NOTHING better than lesbians. Lesbians make everything better.
User avatar
tzor
Prince
Posts: 4266
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by tzor »

K wrote:People should remember that Tzor's litany of "dangers" to contraception and abortion is actually just a list of scare tactics you use when you peer pressure ignorant 16-year-olds who are otherwise scared out of their minds and haven't actually reached a medical professional.
Actually those "ignorant" 16-year-olds have probably been coddled, coached and brain washed by Planned Parenthood agents who convince school districts to host special mandatory extra curicular events outside the school where they generally coach them on how wonderful they are and how evil their parents are.

But who cares about that, because your argument is bullshit as always. I've never talked about the dangers of regular contraception (the pill, the condom, etc) although for a person without a fully developed frontal lobe the biggest danger is that they won't consistantly use them.
User avatar
Count Arioch the 28th
King
Posts: 6172
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Count Arioch the 28th »

Koumei wrote:
PhoneLobster wrote:And I for one "tout" the general availability of lots of recreational sex for everyone as a virtue we should all be proud of and should fight to protect.
Likewise. If people can't have lots of recreational sex, THEN THE TERRORISTS WIN.
I'll have to use that line next time...
In this moment, I am Ur-phoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my int score.
User avatar
tzor
Prince
Posts: 4266
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by tzor »

Psychic Robot wrote:tzor are you willing to raise taxes on the wealthy to fund welfare for the women who would normally have abortions due to economic conditions?
First of all, I'm not willing to do anything on anyone that I'm not willing to do to myself. I'm not quite "wealthy" yet.

But yes, I'm more than willing to raise taxes on everybody (as much as they are able) in order to fund a program that works for these women.
User avatar
tzor
Prince
Posts: 4266
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by tzor »

Count Arioch the 28th wrote:He has openly proclaimed that Reagan's decision specifically to raise taxes on us to fund the tax cuts on himself makes him a great president.
Count, if I had time I would go through the details of Reagan's tax policy but I don't recall he ever gave massive tax breaks on college students and then junior woodchuck programmers who were going part time to graduate school. I could be wrong, but that was me in the 1980's and I remember then quite well.

No, that was Carter et.al. who gave me federaly funded government college loans with a percentage less than the current rate of inflation at the time. Now they were reall nice sweet guys. Yes siree.
User avatar
mean_liar
Duke
Posts: 2187
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
Location: Boston

Post by mean_liar »

DSMatticus wrote: The only actual, valid justification for a stance of "rape-abortion okay, not-rape-abortion bad," is to say, "carrying the fetus is punishment for your choice." That choosing to have sex is somehow inherently bad, and the consequences of having sex should be allowed to negatively impact your life and you should have no recourse to 'improve your life' because you chose to have sex and that's bad.
Unless, of course, it is based on the rationale that contraception is abundant and pregnancy from sex in which it cannot be employed is a special case in which responsibility for getting pregnant was outside the realm of the mother.

Like wotcmaniac's post said. Just a few posts above this. Like he had actually addressed this already, with an arguable point that didn't center around SEX BAD.

This is why we can't have nice things.

Nah, fuck it. Sex is bad, and bad. Bad. Badbadbad. Anyone that's not into cramming a chopped-up fetus back into a woman for her second abortion/same fetus fun times (for free, paid by the state) clearly hates sex, and probably [EDITED] too.
Last edited by mean_liar on Fri Jul 01, 2011 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Count Arioch the 28th
King
Posts: 6172
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Post by Count Arioch the 28th »

tzor wrote: First of all, I'm not willing to do anything on anyone that I'm not willing to do to myself. I'm not quite "wealthy" yet.
Shut the fuck up, you fucking entitled little bitch. You have more wealth than most Americans can even fucking imagine. Stop complaining that you don't have a mansion and a yacht, pull your head out of your ass, and realize that you know absolutely nothing about the ugly side of life, and realize you know nothing of the sacrifices people have made to keep your entitled ass off the streets.
In this moment, I am Ur-phoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my int score.
User avatar
Psychic Robot
Prince
Posts: 4607
Joined: Sat May 03, 2008 10:47 pm

Post by Psychic Robot »

but it is interesting that you think the only reason to have empathy for rape and domestic abuse victims is to display moral superiority or some other self-serving reason.
no see I never said that at all, I said that your reason for your proclamations of empathy were self-serving
Here, let's flip this around: as a rightist, you stupidly think everyone succeeds on their own merits and qualities, and that social circumstances and pressures have no influence on people's actual ability to succeed. In the same way that losing your legs won't stop you from winning a marathon.
no I don't I merely discount whining about racism, sexism, and whatnot because whiners are losers and hard work will win out in the end
Or maybe instead of swinging to a polar extreme of either, you can recognize that individuals are individuals and they have individual social circumstances and individual qualities, and what happens to them in life is a combination of both of those things. And minimizing the harmful effects of society on individuals and maximizing the beneficial effects is a good thing, and actually necessary, or else you end up social circumstances that encourage women to stay in abusive relationships for fear of their life or having no other option except to have to leave their home, life, and career to go hide from someone they may rationally or irrationally fear is going to kill them.
this has nothing to do with abortion
P.S., this is the reality of the world; success IS heavily dependent on social circumstances. Percentage of minorities in America? 27.6%. Percentage of minority, say, doctors in America? 6%. That's social circumstances, by definition. If you're suggesting people succeed only on their own merits and flaws, you are retarded and flat-out emprically wrong. Or, in terms of the U.S. at least, you're a white supremacist. Take your pick of these two unsavory things, because they are the only things that make the shit you say make sense.
it's not my problem that tyrone decided to boost cars instead of going to college and jose never learned to speak english. people are responsible for their own decisions, sorry that you think the poor are helpless, weak, and stupid
He's the toughest guy I've ever met. He's certainly the only guy I've ever encountered who has gotten shot and made the other guy run away.
this never happened but it's not really pertinent
Last edited by Psychic Robot on Fri Jul 01, 2011 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Count Arioch wrote:I'm not sure how discussions on whether PR is a terrible person or not is on-topic.
Ant wrote:
Chamomile wrote:Ant, what do we do about Psychic Robot?
You do not seem to do anything.
Post Reply