[Microscope] PbP Game On!

angelfromanotherpin · Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:42 am

Laertes wrote:How are we characterising the infernal anyway? Is it an Ars Magica style "spiritual corruption in solid form", a D&D style "aliens from another dimension who are themed around immorality", a Wraith style "all the very worst parts of humanity given free rein" or what?

We aren't, yet. Some of that will be done in the Palette segment, the rest in play.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:48 am

I'm down with the starting period being Light, but if that's the case I would prefer the ending period to be Dark, just to acknowledge that the tone of the whole series of events should be seriously mixed.

Anyway, seems like it's Palette time. This will probably be the most time-consuming part of the pre-game prep because every decision involved is subject to discussion and veto. Everyone should be happy with everything on the Palette.

The Palette is basically two lists: Yes and No. Things on the Yes list are allowed even if the setting otherwise wouldn't support them; things on the No list are hard banned. By default, there is one thing on the No list: Time Travel (it interacts poorly with the game for a few reasons). The other thing that usually has to be considered putting on the No list is 'immortals,' but I think that's been pre-accepted by us.

Adding things is round-robin, and in this case the order is that of sign-up for the game:

1. Me
2. Nebuchadnezzar
3. Laertes
4. Longes

You can pass your turn if you want, but if anybody passes, that's the last round of additions to the Palette.

My proposed addition is: NO non-Hell supernatural elements. Hell-related stories often imply other, contrasting, shiny supernatural things, and I want nothing related to those. In the same vein, no sorcery that isn't sourced in or only effective on Hell-stuff. I'm cool with humans using crosses to repel demons or circles to bind them, and so on, but that sort of thing should be as powerless against earthly stuff as it's always been historically.

So, if you'd like to discuss amending my proposed addition, speak up. In the meantime, more additions in the arbitrary specified order. If it comes up, we'll finish discussion/amendment on all the first round of additions before moving on to the second round.

Laertes · Post by **Laertes** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:56 am

I support angelfromanotherpin's suggestion regarding the lack of non-Hell supernatural elements. Focus is a good thing and kitchen-sink is a bad thing.[/b]

Nebuchadnezzar · Post by **Nebuchadnezzar** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:15 am

You guys can call me Neb, for short.

I definitely want to say Yes to Multiple interpretations of Hell coexist. Whether it's just that human minds impose a given infernal framework on entities otherwise without form, or Tartarus is 2 weeks travel from Xibalbá, I'm interested in pulling from a few different demonological traditions.

Laertes · Post by **Laertes** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:55 am

I want to say Yes to Human souls are a real thing which are tarnished by contact with the infernal. Contact with devils needs to feel like it has a real price, even if it's a price we're unaccustomed to considering in our day-to-day resource management.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:26 pm

I am totally behind the multifarious nature of Hell.

Laertes wrote:I want to say Yes to Human souls are a real thing which are tarnished by contact with the infernal. Contact with devils needs to feel like it has a real price, even if it's a price we're unaccustomed to considering in our day-to-day resource management.

Sounds good, though I'm wondering if you have a particular interpretation of 'tarnished' you'd like to expand upon?

Laertes · Post by **Laertes** » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:42 pm

angelfromanotherpin wrote:Sounds good, though I'm wondering if you have a particular interpretation of 'tarnished' you'd like to expand upon?

The fundamental idea is that hell isn't a place or a group of beings; rather, it's a pervasive spiritual energy that degrades people and brings out the worst in them. It's a spiritual toxin which gradually builds up over time. It doesn't make people evil but accentuates the elements of their personality which are spiteful, sadistic or callous. It's not straightforward Change Alignment or Mind Control or anything, but is a lot more insidious and possibly more dangerous since nobody notices it happening to them.

In the long run, a person who deals with devils will gradually become more and more similar to them, as their soul slowly gets dirtier and dirtier and their conscience gets eaten away. However, even though humans may reach the same depths of depravity as devils do, they still have souls, and are therefore ultimately capable of redemption.

As well as allowing straightforward infernal-evil-boo-hiss stories, this allows a much more subtle parallel with industrialisation as a whole, since the process is potentially harnessable by humanity but sucks for the individuals who actually have to do the work. It makes the early exploratory rush more risky and makes the later broad social adoption more stratifying.

angelfromanotherpin · Tue Jun 24, 2014 10:42 pm

Hm, I'm less comfortable with that. I'm not a fan of moral evil being like radiation poisoning. It removes a lot of the human agency that's at the core of the most interesting stories.

I can get behind 'spending your soul currency reduces your impulse control and empathy,' so the people who actually make deals with demons become worse people. I can get behind 'infernitech requires questionable actions,' so there are assembly lines of people ritually killing puppies twelve hours a day (or something) to keep the wonders working, and that damages their sensibilities. I'm also down with hell having and infernitech putting a fair amount of lead in the air and making the crime rate go up in a very general way and also suck for the direct workers, without getting objective morality energy involved.

Laertes · Post by **Laertes** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:56 am

I can get behind 'spending your soul currency reduces your impulse control and empathy,' so the people who actually make deals with demons become worse people. I can get behind 'infernitech requires questionable actions,' so there are assembly lines of people ritually killing puppies twelve hours a day (or something) to keep the wonders working, and that damages their sensibilities. I'm also down with hell having and infernitech putting a fair amount of lead in the air and making the crime rate go up in a very general way and also suck for the direct workers, without getting objective morality energy involved.

I can get behind this. I'm not sure (yet) how hell can objectively exist without objective moral energy also existing, but that just makes me want to play and find out even more.

Nebuchadnezzar · Post by **Nebuchadnezzar** » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:23 am

Yeah, I'm cool with "Souls exist", and "Interaction with the infernal is inherently corrupting", but would appreciate the interaction between the two being potentially fluid. I have a couple of ideas I could be interested to try to incorporate with the game's narrative, but having read the .pdf am interested in keeping the Palette to absolutes, or possible fringe case inclusions.

angelfromanotherpin · Thu Jun 26, 2014 10:39 am

Longes, we're waiting on you. Palette or pass?

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:24 pm

Sorry, I had a tough week and forgot about the game

Yes: Devil is a singular entity and the only one who can trade for your soul.

Clarification: other demons may exist, but you can't trade your soul to them.

Laertes · Post by **Laertes** » Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:26 pm

Plural hells, singular devil? I suppose we could do it as an aspects-of-the-same-being way, like the Greek gods were.

Nebuchadnezzar · Post by **Nebuchadnezzar** » Sat Jun 28, 2014 4:04 am

I suppose one could have something akin to Dante's Satan serving as the idiot medium through which soul securities are first issued, with other demons serving as brokers. I guess I don't see the advantage in there only being one method.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:50 pm

Nebuchadnezzar wrote:I suppose one could have something akin to Dante's Satan serving as the idiot medium through which soul securities are first issued, with other demons serving as brokers. I guess I don't see the advantage in there only being one method.

I just want to confirm that this isn't a formal objection.

Also, Laertes, we should hash out a final amended form to your addition. Does 'Human souls are real and trading yours makes you a worse person. Contact with hell and its derivatives must damage a person's morality.' work for you, or is there another phrasing you'd prefer?

Anyway, on to round 2.

No afterlife confirmations.

What a person experiences after death remains uncertain. No hell-entities are recognizable as humans or former humans. There can be suspicious coincidences, just no certainties. Also, if it's possible for demons to contact or manifest dead people, those people have no memories beyond their physical lives.

Nebuchadnezzar · Post by **Nebuchadnezzar** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:55 pm

PASS, without objections.

Laertes · Post by **Laertes** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 3:33 pm

Also, Laertes, we should hash out a final amended form to your addition. Does 'Human souls are real and trading yours makes you a worse person. Contact with hell and its derivatives must damage a person's morality.' work for you, or is there another phrasing you'd prefer?

Works for me. Let me bold it.

Human souls are real and trading yours makes you a worse person. Contact with hell and its derivatives must damage a person's morality.

Also, no objection on your round 2 one. My Round 2 will be:

There is no God to counterbalance the devil.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Sun Jun 29, 2014 4:14 pm

Laertes wrote:There is no God to counterbalance the devil.

I kind of hoped this was covered by my round 1, but I guess there could have been a similar, hell-sourced figure. Full endorsement.

Nebuchadnezzar · Post by **Nebuchadnezzar** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:24 am

It should probably be made clear that there isn't a God one can explicitly communicate with. The Abrahamic religions would still exist and believe in their afterlife, and in many of the hells the inhabitants at least voice their recollection of falls from grace or creation of the world via divine agents, but there's no evidence of it.

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:57 am

So, what do we do now?

Laertes · Post by **Laertes** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:26 am

Nebuchadnezzar wrote:It should probably be made clear that there isn't a God one can explicitly communicate with. The Abrahamic religions would still exist and believe in their afterlife, and in many of the hells the inhabitants at least voice their recollection of falls from grace or creation of the world via divine agents, but there's no evidence of it.

Agreed.

Nebuchadnezzar · Post by **Nebuchadnezzar** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:45 am

Longes wrote:So, what do we do now?

You still have an opportunity to either Pass or add something to the Palette. Once that is completed, group decisions are over. Next, the players do a First Pass, in which each player (in any order) adds either a Period between two adjacent Periods, complete with a brief description and Tone (light/dark), or the player adds an Event to a currently existing Period.

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 5:41 pm

Nebuchadnezzar wrote:
Longes wrote:So, what do we do now?
You still have an opportunity to either Pass or add something to the Palette. Once that is completed, group decisions are over. Next, the players do a First Pass, in which each player (in any order) adds either a Period between two adjacent Periods, complete with a brief description and Tone (light/dark), or the player adds an Event to a currently existing Period.

Oh, for some reason my page was stuck on the 28.06 and didn't refresh, so I didn't see any new posts

Add: mundane weaponry works on forces of hell.

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:32 pm

Longes wrote:Add: mundane weaponry works on forces of hell.

Oh, fuck yes, pike and shot vs demonic legions is ~70% of my visualization of this setting so far.

OK, so the Palette is:

YES:
Multiple interpretations of Hell exist.
Human souls are real and trading yours makes you a worse person.
Contact with Hell and its derivatives must damage a person's morality.
The Devil is a singular entity and the only one who can trade for your soul.
Mundane weaponry works on the forces of hell.

NO:
Non-Hell supernatural elements.
Afterlife confirmations.
God to counterbalance the devil.

Let's give it 24 hours or so for any final objections or discussion, then move on to First Pass. If you have a preference about the turn order of that, let me know; otherwise I'll assign it randomly.

Longes · Post by **Longes** » Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:32 pm

angelfromanotherpin wrote: Contact with Hell and its derivatives must damage a person's morality.

I'd like to object to this one. I'm okay with trading being bad, and demons trying to corrupt you, but I don't think that mere contact with Hell and its inhabitants should be automatically morally decaying.

angelfromanotherpin wrote:If you have a preference about the turn order of that, let me know; otherwise I'll assign it randomly.

I'd like to suggest that you go first and randomize the other players.