The Gaming Den

Akula wrote:Now the shaper is saying that he left the game "voluntarily" and that he "without intending to" created a PC that was "tremendously overpowered." Bonus points for using multiple obscure Green Ronin templates.

Yeah, isn't it cute.

And he created a thread asking how to tell the power level of a character, and got a bunch of congratulatory back patting about being a "natural optimizer" for taking broken templates and not knowing how broken they were.

This was after the initial round of "maybe you aren't underpowered, maybe everyone else in the group is just a clueless loser" which of course, was said by some of the exact same people who were just complaining about how Tome stuff is so brokenzors, it makes normal things, like Fine sized 30int Psions, look pathetic.

Maxus wrote:IAnd it's an interesting facet of a character, seeing as how it's at-will. It can change how that character interacts with the world, and the ability becomes part of him, not just something he does. It's like the Changelings in Eberron (by the way, the ONE race I really like in there) and Disguise Self.

I could find many ways to play it out, such as the character 'blinking' when he moves suddenly or tries to react. Or even when he's walking, he sometimes steps forward with his right foot twice without breaking his flow. Things like that, to help flesh that out as a part of the character now, rather than tactical ability that only shows up in combat.

Yeah, the one reason I hate so much at will ability hate is for this exact reason.

Having the Stone Sphere at will isn't broken. It means you can build your own fucking dungeon, never have a door, and generally just be awesome.

Teleports change the way a character acts, not just a freaking combat move.

If you can only teleport 12 times per day, you can still making shopping trips whenever you want, and travel great distances and whatever else.

But if you can do it at will, instead, you can freaking do that instead of walking, ever.

Like, you could totally make a character that never takes a step.

That's fair enough.

I like at-wills because...Well, okay. I realized the common denominator for every character I've ever enjoyed playing in a D&D game--and this is not the same as every character. And it's immersion.

I find I'm really having fun when I get a knowledge drop of the how and why the character would feel about something. Or approach. A lot of times, it starts when I'm going through a character's abilities. I like at-wills because they can be used outside of the combat minigame and therefore can be a part of how a character approaches the world itself.

It's the gameplay/story divide. I've noticed certain abilities at-will, or other methods of changing how a character interacts with the world, help reduce that divide for me, increasing my immersion in the game and therefore increasing the fun. If they're really unusual, like Teleport or, say, taking Progenitor of the Gith all the way through, they help the character feel like an actual notable in the world, rather than just another mook.

But I can understand the reasons for your hatred of the same abilities.

Maxus wrote:That's fair enough.

I like at-wills because...Well, okay. I realized the common denominator for every character I've ever enjoyed playing in a D&D game--and this is not the same as every character. And it's immersion.

I find I'm really having fun when I get a knowledge drop of the how and why the character would feel about something. Or approach. A lot of times, it starts when I'm going through a character's abilities. I like at-wills because they can be used outside of the combat minigame and therefore can be a part of how a character approaches the world itself.

It's the gameplay/story divide. I've noticed certain abilities at-will, or other methods of changing how a character interacts with the world, help reduce that divide for me, increasing my immersion in the game and therefore increasing the fun. If they're really unusual, like Teleport or, say, taking Progenitor of the Gith all the way through, they help the character feel like an actual notable in the world, rather than just another mook.

But I can understand the reasons for your hatred of the same abilities.

No you can't understand anything I type.

I hate X.

X is "at will ability hate"

IE, people that hate at will abilities.

I was agreeing with you.

Kaelik wrote:

Maxus wrote:That's fair enough.

I like at-wills because...Well, okay. I realized the common denominator for every character I've ever enjoyed playing in a D&D game--and this is not the same as every character. And it's immersion.

I find I'm really having fun when I get a knowledge drop of the how and why the character would feel about something. Or approach. A lot of times, it starts when I'm going through a character's abilities. I like at-wills because they can be used outside of the combat minigame and therefore can be a part of how a character approaches the world itself.

It's the gameplay/story divide. I've noticed certain abilities at-will, or other methods of changing how a character interacts with the world, help reduce that divide for me, increasing my immersion in the game and therefore increasing the fun. If they're really unusual, like Teleport or, say, taking Progenitor of the Gith all the way through, they help the character feel like an actual notable in the world, rather than just another mook.

But I can understand the reasons for your hatred of the same abilities.

No you can't understand anything I type.

I hate X.

X is "at will ability hate"

IE, people that hate at will abilities.

I was agreeing with you.

Wow, I need to go do something for a while rather than stare at a screen. Then again, I've only really got this computer going (wireless router, wireless adapter, getting it configured how I want) in the past couple hours. Staring at a screen is a big part of that.

I missed that second hate in "I hate all at-will ability hate" which changed how I read the rest of the post.

My bad, big time.

I suppose I should clarify. I've run into semi-valid at-will ability hate. Characters changing how they interact with the setting is not something they really want.

So, say, they dislike things like this:

Instant Fortress: the Warmage may summon a Fortress as a Spell-like Ability. The fortress appears after three consecutive rounds of concentration, and then functions like the item of the same name. If packed up, then it regenerates all damage within 24 hours. If destroyed, it takes a week for another to be called forth. If the concentration time is extended out to one minute, then the fortress appears as two towers connected by a wall 25' tall, 10' thick and 50' long, with arrow slits and battlements at the top. If extended out to ten minutes, it becomes four towers, each connected by one such wall in a square formation, with a 60' tall tower in the centre, connected to the walls by 10' thick, 10' tall, 20' long corridors.

The fortress requires as much time to pack up as to set up.

Because, apparently, it's not something they want in their games.

So, yes. I can sympathize with that a little, although I think they should be playing something different from 3.x if they really don't like world-changing powers and the characters getting beyond ordinary worries like food, water, sleep, and blisters from walking down the road.

I've run into the same thing.

The difference between me and you, is that my hate endures the contact.

I find it interesting that the psion's player hasn't said what templates he used (at least, as far as I've read). I wonder if he's bullshitting and really did realize he was using broken shit.

Prak_Anima wrote:I find it interesting that the psion's player hasn't said what templates he used (at least, as far as I've read). I wonder if he's bullshitting and really did realize he was using broken shit.

He did say in another thread, eventually.

He took one template that does +4 LA and has a Str penalty and a +10 to int.

The other template is apparently called "minature" and is a -4 LA template that makes you fine sized with some penalties to phys stats.

So minor penalties to movement speed which you don't use because you fly, str which you don't use because you are a caster, dex and con, so basically saves and hp, because you are fine sized, so it's still an AC bonus.

Can anyone show me to gtip link? I'm laughing my ass off right now, and all I need is a couple PrtScn pictures so I can make a demotivational...

Being that none of us have heard of this crazy-awesome LA-buying off template, I'm going to say that he knew what he was doing.

Also, please link.

Hell, as long as we are powergaming, we might as well take Miniature, +3 LA worth of templates that give any bonus whatsoever to a casting stat, and the Winged template. Essentially, no penalties.

Fine creatures, per the DMG, weigh 1/8 of a pound. I would rule that you could use Mage Hand to squash a bug with a grapple check. Just saying.

Edit:Double-post