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Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:26 am
by The Lunatic Fringe
Elennsar wrote:I'm not interested in "putting people down" who offer input. Nor am I interested in treating "input" that is "let us ask you 100 questions and grant zero assistance in answering any questions" as more useful than ignoring it.
Actually, this is an incredibly helpful form of input, as it forces you to clarify your thought process, thus finding weak points and logical flaws.
Kinda like the Socratic Method.
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:27 am
by Elennsar
Not really, no. Not when the person you're asking those is trying to find the answers themselves and the help they want is help answering those.
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:29 am
by Maxus
Elennsar wrote:Not really, no. Not when the person you're asking those is trying to find the answers themselves and the help they want is help answering those.
So you want us to hand the answers right to you, and you'll accept them?
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 2:37 am
by Elennsar
No. I want you to help in coming up with answers - initial thoughts by either me or you (those helping) will be weighed and those that sound best will be used (at least until this is tested).
"So, what do you think people should do with spears? How about _____?"
would be met with "Hmmm. (response depending on the comment and any thoughts)."
then that would be met with something else in regards to it, either saying "Alright, now that we know that, what about?" or a reasonable reason to do the original something, or more finetuning of the something, or whatever.
But we're wandering off topic. Badly.
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:15 am
by ckafrica
Then lets get back on topic. You are trolling worse than anyone else, who are really just responding to your banal expulsions. It is the epitome of trolling to enter into a community and attempt to fundamentally change it. If you go to a blatantly pro-republican forum and ask them advice on how they would run the country and then spend the rest of the time explaining why you think their ideas are stupid, than your trolling.. (You might be right in that example; YOU are not here)
No single discussion you have been an active in has gone anywhere other than moronic circles. This was not an endemic problem prior to your presence. There were never 20 pages arguments before you came here. You and your dumb opinions have been choking up this board.
So seriously go back to sucking your dad's cock and fuck off.
To the rest of the Den: Stop feeding Elenssar.
Seriously guys, I know some of you feel like maybe, just maybe he might come around and in a blast or revelation (or gas) have his head removed from his ass, but it should be blantantly obvious by now that it would require
divine intervention to achieve and worthwhile results.
Some might argue that it hones our debating skills but seriously he's Eliza. Perhaps you gain some satisfaction from laying waste to his feeble assertions but how much satisfaction can be derived? It's like beating up 5 year olds.
The problem here is that (and I hate to play armchair psychologist) he's deriving some perverse pleasure out of our beration of his folly. I wouldn't be surprised if he'd stick around even if we all to him to go fuck him self after every single post he made (we're essentially doing that already after all). As long as we indulge him he will stay around.
The only way he will go away is if we don't respond to him at all, no matter how tempting the retort or even when he makes the occasionally makes a valid point that would deserve a response we he was a reasonable person.
He's not a reasonable person, so stop treating him like he is
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:21 am
by Elennsar
Congradulations on giving a perfect example of of why trolling hurts this site, ckafrica.
Not a single word in that has anything to do with anything other than your inability to accept that gee, maybe someone -doesn't- agree with you and that this site isn't your private playground to insist that everyone do it your way or they're a moron.
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 8:39 am
by Prak
you know, Elennsar? It occurs to me there is a "report post function" and you are the ur example of why it exists.
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:30 am
by Elennsar
No, this kind of posting is
ckafrica wrote: So seriously go back to sucking your dad's cock and fuck off.
why it (and a better anti-trolling rule, or an actual anti-trolling rule if we don't have one), are needed.
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:35 am
by Bigode
Boolean wrote:If he had told me to go suck a bag of cocks, I would have taken it completely in stride.
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 9:47 am
by Elennsar
The problem is, "I would, therefore you should too." doesn't make sense for either arguement.
Nor is there any way to take ckafrica's post as meant as any kind of "Respectful disagreement", however broadly one defines respectful in that context.
In this context, it is meant to be insulting, or at least written so that it is intended to come off as insulting.
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:11 pm
by Zherog
Wow, I'm glad I installed that "ignore" function on the forums, so people could, you know, ignore people they think are walking douchebags who don't contribute jack or shit to the forum.
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 4:39 pm
by violence in the media
Excellent point.
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:15 pm
by Bigode
Zherog wrote:Wow, I'm glad I installed that "ignore" function on the forums, so people could, you know, ignore people they think are walking douchebags who don't contribute jack or shit to the forum.
Despite how much I appreciate your help, it doesn't really solve the problem of clogged threads, and that's why I wanted the "don't post if asked" rule to stay. That said, ckafrica already named the solution - unfortunately, it relies on other posters not being retarded, which might be too much to ask.
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 6:54 pm
by fbmf
Zherog wrote:Wow, I'm glad I installed that "ignore" function on the forums, so people could, you know, ignore people they think are walking douchebags who don't contribute jack or shit to the forum.
Let me tell you...it pisses me off to no end.
Game On,
fbmf
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:14 pm
by Ganbare Gincun
Elennsar -
Although I haven't been here very long, I think the main reason that you have so many problems with people on this board is because you ask them for ideas, solutions, and input regarding the mechanical aspects of game design and then proceed to disregard what they have to say out of hand. It seems like you're unwilling to strike a balance between fluff and crunch and you are therefore always looking for someone to give you a magical answer that will allow you to declare two completely contradictory game mechanics principles as being equally valid. Unfortunately, the fact of the matter is that game systems are not perfect, there usually isn't a "perfect answer", and people often have to either make choices between competing concepts or strike compromises between them to advance their game design goals.
Until you can get to the point where you can make those kinds of choices instead of engaging in 16 pages of circular arguments with people over swords and mustaches, you're going to have a hard time implementing decent game mechanics despite the fact that you have an excellent idea of how you want your game to "feel" and are able to write quite a bit of fluff about your game world or campaign. I can't help but wonder if most of the people you consider "trolls" are people that would really like for you to come around and realize this fact but have simply grown exasperated with the endeavor over time.
Maybe I'm off base with this assessment. If I am, I'm sure another member of this Forum will let me know. But that's my perspective on things at this point in time.
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:34 pm
by fbmf
[The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
Ramnza and I were on vacation last week, and it gave me some time to meditate on this situation. Here’s the deal:
Then lets get back on topic. You are trolling worse than anyone else, who are really just responding to your banal expulsions. It is the epitome of trolling to enter into a community and attempt to fundamentally change it. If you go to a blatantly pro-republican forum and ask them advice on how they would run the country and then spend the rest of the time explaining why you think their ideas are stupid, than your trolling.. (You might be right in that example; YOU are not here)
No single discussion you have been an active in has gone anywhere other than moronic circles. This was not an endemic problem prior to your presence. There were never 20 pages arguments before you came here. You and your dumb opinions have been choking up this board.
So seriously go back to sucking your dad's cock and fuck off.
To the rest of the Den: Stop feeding Elenssar.
Seriously guys, I know some of you feel like maybe, just maybe he might come around and in a blast or revelation (or gas) have his head removed from his ass, but it should be blantantly obvious by now that it would require divine intervention to achieve and worthwhile results.
Some might argue that it hones our debating skills but seriously he's Eliza. Perhaps you gain some satisfaction from laying waste to his feeble assertions but how much satisfaction can be derived? It's like beating up 5 year olds.
The problem here is that (and I hate to play armchair psychologist) he's deriving some perverse pleasure out of our beration of his folly. I wouldn't be surprised if he'd stick around even if we all to him to go fuck him self after every single post he made (we're essentially doing that already after all). As long as we indulge him he will stay around.
The only way he will go away is if we don't respond to him at all, no matter how tempting the retort or even when he makes the occasionally makes a valid point that would deserve a response we he was a reasonable person.
He's not a reasonable person, so stop treating him like he is
Emphasis mine.
The parts I have highlighted are what mucks up the situation. I’ve gotten quite a number of “E is a troll”-esque post reports, but I’ve also gotten an equal if not greater number of reports from E saying “I’m being flamed / personally attacked…and he’s right. Even by TGDMB’s (ADMITEDLY LAX) STANDARDS™, y’all are spewing a heaping helping of vitriol at the lad, which makes it hard from Ramnza and I, the All Seeing Eyes of Justice, to side against him.
E, you’ve said it would be nice to be able to post on this site and take advantage of what it can do, by which I assume you mean “take advantage of the crack team of rules lawyers and game reviewers TGDMB seems to keep on retainer.” I agree they are handy to have around. I won’t deny it’s a large part of the reason I started The Den.
Here’s the deal, though: They don’t want to review/dissect/offer constructive feedback/PEACH/whatever the type of game you want to make and/or play. If they did, they would have done it by now, and I while I will do my best to keep them from venting hatred towards you, I can not and will not make them agree with you game design wise.
That’s what I meant by my playground analogy: I try to separate you from the students who are hurling attitude at you, but the instant I turn my back you head straight back over to that side of the school yard and then start asking them to play this kewl new game you just made up which they do not give the first fuck about.
To the Community: Having said that (and I know what I’m about to say goes against Denizen nature) take the moral high road when it comes to dealing with Elennsar. It makes it a lot easier to take your side when you’re not screaming at him that he needs to fellate his patriarchal ancestors. Use the Report Post Function, for Christ’s sake use the IGNORE function, but whatever you resist the urge to get in a parting shot regarding his ancestry or whatever. It is a blatant violation of the CoC and will NO LONGER be tolerated.
To Elennsar: This is your official notice that, judging by the number of PMs and Report Posts I have received on the subject, NOBODY ON THIS BOARD WANTS TO WORK WITH YOU AND/OR REVIEW YOUR GAME DESIGN WORK and/or philosophies. I am sorry. Furthermore, (again judging by the influx of hate mail I’ve been pretty steadily receiving for 50-60 days now) NOBODY ON THIS BOARD VALUES YOUR OPINION ON THEIR GAME DESIGN WORK and/or PHILOSOPHIES. From the bottom of my heart, you are more than welcome to hang around and even contribute to the boards, but trying to fundamentally change the game design philosophies and principles of the Denizens when you know they are not interested is trolling, and will no longer be tolerated.
[/The Great Fence Builder Speaks]
Posted: Sat Mar 21, 2009 7:35 pm
by Username17
Maybe I'm off base with this assessment. If I am, I'm sure another member of this Forum will let me know. But that's my perspective on things at this point in time.
Honestly, I told him point blank that if he was not willing to accept that
A thing that may happen has a chance of happening.
... that I would put him on ignore forever. He refused to accept that and now he's on my ignore list. I suggest others do the same.
There is nothing to be gained from directly engaging him in conversation because he literally will not give ground on an
actual tautology. There's no conversation going on, so there's no reason to speak to him or read his posts.
-Username17
Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:28 am
by Crissa
I don't like his games, but he has said a couple interesting things.
If he didn't post after every other post in a thread it wouldn't be so much of a problem, but... The total lack of regard for ideas means even I don't read his posts anymore.
-Crissa
Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:47 am
by ckafrica
FrankTrollman wrote:
There is nothing to be gained from directly engaging him in conversation because he literally will not give ground on an actual tautology. There's no conversation going on, so there's no reason to speak to him or read his posts.
That's my problem with the guy. It's not that i disagree with him, i disagree with a fair number of people here on different things, it's that you can't talk with the guy at all. He has yet to concede a single point in 2000+ posts.
I'll concede he has spawned discussion around some interesting topics, but his contributions largely based by his prolific postings have bogged them down, prevent the discussion going forward.
I wish I could just left him at ignore but he has monopolized peoples discussion. You can not easily discuss anything in a thread he is active in without having to engage him because others are. Even if you ignore him, if post after every other post means, yours is likely lost in the sea of E.
Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 6:58 am
by Draco_Argentum
ckafrica wrote:Even if you ignore him, if post after every other post means, yours is likely lost in the sea of E.
Essentially. The fact that I don't like him hardly makes him unique. I don't like several people here. The only difference is the volume of posts he spews. Remember that time we told Sigma he posts too much. Same deal.
Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 7:43 am
by Koumei
For what it's worth, Zherog, I just use the ignore function and that works fine for me.
Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 2:28 pm
by Psychic Robot
Not to be rude, but maybe Elennsar should just man up and get used to the idea that people around here are dicks. Like Boolean said (and Bigode quoted), "If he had told me to go suck a bag of cocks, I would have taken it completely in stride." That's just how people talk around here, and that's what makes the Den > other forums.
If you're hanging out with a group of guys who call each other [EDITED] every five seconds, bitching about how they're making homophobic comments about you is really lame.
Posted: Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:02 pm
by fbmf
And now we're done talking about it.
[/TGFBS]