My review of Rifts [rant]

[Ganbare Gincun]

Our record was a ninja group of mutant wolverines from the moon who had power armor that was also from the moon. I played a lava warlock mutant anthro-wolverine in power armor. From the moon.

It gets even "better" when Power Rangers, Cobra agents, and Starfleet Away Teams start showing up!

[name_here]

...

Is it bad that i suddenly want to play rifts?

[koz]

Frank will make anyone want to play anything.

[Jinerviet]

Unfortunately, PR, my rage isn't easy to motivate. But I'll see what I can do.

Addendum: Oh my sides! Surely you jest! Sinister, hun, you know full well I get at least one rant from you every time I see you. (I see him almost every day of late)

[ckafrica]

Wolverines were simply the best animal in TMNT by far and you were an idiot to have chosen anything else.

[virgil]

As a system, Rifts is loads better than crap like FATAL, Spawn of Fashan, Synnibar, etc. However, that's as backhanded as you can expect. It's probably the worst system out of all the big name RPGs. There used to be a fair number of semi-anti-Rifts sites, where they would pine for a viable system to work with what they saw as an awesome setting, but they've all withered as the weight of Siembieda's crap crushed their will to live. Here's one of the few that remain extant.

However, it's got a kitchen sink philosophy behind the setting that many appreciate. As Frank indicated, the over-the-topness can almost sustain itself. You see a similar result with Shadowrun, Gatecrasher, Deadlands, Feng Shui, and D&D (admit it, it's a fantasy genre smorgashboard). If only Siembieda were to cull the rolls of pestilent fat from the setting and clean up the rules...

[RandomCasualty2]

However, it's got a kitchen sink philosophy behind the setting that many appreciate. As Frank indicated, the over-the-topness can almost sustain itself. You see a similar result with Shadowrun, Gatecrasher, Deadlands, Feng Shui, and D&D (admit it, it's a fantasy genre smorgashboard). If only Siembieda were to cull the rolls of pestilent fat from the setting and clean up the rules...

The main problem I see is that there just isn't any desire to balance Rifts, and Siembieda just said "fuck it" and wrote rules without any baseline philosophy.

And I just can't see producing a good game like that.

[Prak]

I've played in a couple fairly long running games of rifts, and rather enjoyed it, but that's because we had a good gm and none of us tried to play weak crap like a hobo.

I've off and on thought of running it for my friends, mostly because the setting is so fun. I've had the good fortune to run into a d20 adaptation of the system, and while I'm not sure how well it works, it's there.

It's just really difficult to find.

[Koumei]

Frank, were the werewolves from the moon "Zenith Moon Warpers"? or something else? The intro description alone for them seems to suggest that they were (they only work with others of the same race), or was it something else?

I think the group were playing TMNT (or TMNT characters ported into Rifts). In TMNT, you pick an animal from a huge list (or roll for it with hilarious results) and play a mutant one of them. Then you customise them on scales of "Paws - clumsy hands - human hands", "Animal noises (must take the telepathy psychic power) - rough growly voice - human voice" and "walking animal (like the Turtles themselves) - furry - human who looks kind of like the animal in question".

Then you roll to see how you were mutated, what your background and education were, etc. etc.

And if the whole party choose to be of the same batch, the following applies:
*You must all be of the same animal type, background (can select different skills) and choices on the hands, voice and appearance tables.
*You all roll for your stats separately, but if anyone rolls the 16+ and wins a bonus die, they ALL get the bonus die. It stacks. So if 6 players each roll 16+ for one stat, they each get +6d6 and laugh merrily.
*I can't remember, but possibly they also all get the bonus if one of them takes a physical skill? Not sure. It seems I lost the book during one of my trips from one state to another.

---

Anyway, Rifts really can be loads of fun. You just need to take a relaxed attitude, treat it like what it is: something random and stupid and kitchen sink, and try to make stuff as "lolwut?" as you can.

But the base system will make you claw your eyes out still.

Oh, and don't try to make a d20 conversion or whatever, or Kev will sue you. Because as we all know, WotC and the Internet are the two main things crushing the RPG industry! His position at the top of the RPG industry is in danger because of the Internet! Also, Communism is a global threat and I'm kind of worried about them sending that "Titanic" ship out there, what if it hits an iceberg or something?



That's probably one of his biggest issues, actually - he's still living in the 70s or whatever. But still, don't let that stop you. Play it once and have a ball.

Oh, also, laugh at the pictures. There is a snake smoking from a hookah in one book - we dubbed it Kevin's editor, sharing his drugs. Another one has a sort of tarrasque with a GIANT SPIKED SCROTUM.

[shau]

Speaking of Rifts, am I the one who honestly can't believe that Palladium is still alive? Didn't they go into charity mode like three years ago? Who is buying this stuff?

Also, does anyone have that rant about working with Kevin saved? That thing was great?

[Koumei]

Took a while to find, but here:

http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=144 ... tcount=184

http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=144 ... tcount=212

http://forum.rpg.net/showpost.php?p=144 ... tcount=218

The above are linked to from this thread, all about Kev:

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=280891

[Prak]

I wonder if anyone at Palladium has thought of confronting Kevin about his... "squirrel with MPD on crack" methodology. Maybe record him raving about the concept and okaying things and then when you bring him the finished product and he says "Oh, take this out, it's not needed at all" playing the recording where he says "Hell yes, do that! We need that in this book!"

It'd probably get some some stupid letter talking down to youm but as I understand it, that happens a lot anyway...

[Dog_O_War]

I wonder if anyone at Palladium has thought of confronting Kevin about his... "squirrel with MPD on crack" methodology. Maybe record him raving about the concept and okaying things and then when you bring him the finished product and he says "Oh, take this out, it's not needed at all" playing the recording where he says "Hell yes, do that! We need that in this book!"

It'd probably get some some stupid letter talking down to youm but as I understand it, that happens a lot anyway...

Yes; Bill Coffin did just this (though I assume in a much more polite way since they were friends). He said to Kevin that people were requesting a rules revision, and after a lengthy arguement I believe Bill quit (or was fired, or it was mutual, etc.. whatever). There's more to it than this, but this is the abridged version.

Despite the problems with the rules of this game, as well as the layout of the books themselves (a nightmare - no index, and everything is just sorta put in randomly, not to mention the numerous cut&paste blurbs that only serve to increase bulk), the setting is really fun.

The rules themselves require so much bloody work to fix; every GM that runs this usually has a ton of house-rules. But people still play it, and I assume it's because they (like myself) find the setting worthy of the attempt.

[Username17]

And if the whole party choose to be of the same batch, the following applies:
*You must all be of the same animal type, background (can select different skills) and choices on the hands, voice and appearance tables.
*You all roll for your stats separately, but if anyone rolls the 16+ and wins a bonus die, they ALL get the bonus die. It stacks. So if 6 players each roll 16+ for one stat, they each get +6d6 and laugh merrily.
*I can't remember, but possibly they also all get the bonus if one of them takes a physical skill? Not sure. It seems I lost the book during one of my trips from one state to another.

It goes beyond that. Remember how when you get a bonus die and you roll a 6 on it, you get another bonus die that can't generate a new bonus die? When that happens, all your team mates get a bonus die. That stacks. And can generate another bonus die. That would give you a bonus die for existing. And so on.

I'm dead serious about the stats in the 50s or so. You basically just kept rolling until no one on the entire team rolled a 6.

And yes, there was actually a book specifically to play TMNT mutants in power armor from space. It wasn't the most over powered book they ever wrote, but I think it was the most ninja pirate zombie rockstar book they ever published. At least, it was when I was 14.



-Username17

[Count Arioch the 28th]

I kind of liked Palladium, except the DM was a douche.

He insisted that every group must follow a theme, regardless of system. If one person wanted to multiclass in 2E, he forced everyone else to. If someone was a juicer in Palladium, everyone had to be a juicer. His argument was "These people wouldn't even be together if they weren't the same".

He also was a fan of "you can't do that". He rejected three of my characters in Palladium because they didn't have boxing and prowl. I didn't want boxing, and I didn't want Prowl, I was a nightbane sorcerer. I turned into a cybernetic skeleton and threw crappy spells at people. I was like a Lich, only shitty, but only slightly less shitty than the vampire in the group.

[Prak]

huh. I feel like telling that dm that our groups of:

A BW transformer (and before that, a Hecatomb Endbringer), another transformer, a TK soldier, and various and assorted cracked out original DBs, which, when I joined, was basically a nightmarish goblin with the two major traits (eating everything and being a tinker) amped up to 11000

and

An anthropomorphic goat, the farmer from Harvest Moon, an elf, a human psychic, and I can't remember what else...

got together and got along just fine. even with the anthropomorphic goat being an aspiring fixer for necromancers and various other unsavory people.

I mean, playing really random motley groups is part of the point of Rifts. I think the other part of the point is loading up with MD weapons and blow shit up...

[RandomCasualty2]

I mean, playing really random motley groups is part of the point of Rifts. I think the other part of the point is loading up with MD weapons and blow shit up...

Yeah, based on what I've seen of Rifts, there's really not much of a coherent story to it, or the attempt to have serious drama. It's just a random clump of shit squished together.

It's just one of those things where you're just supposed to not think about it and try to enjoy yourself.

[Count Arioch the 28th]

Yeah, it was all juicers, or all dark creatures, or all cybernetic based, etc. I could understand the all mutant team because that gave you substantial bonuses, but we got no such bonuses.

He had other problems. I'm sure I mentioned the DM who told me that wizards are incapable of moving quiet and accused me of cheating when I said my wizard was going to move as quietly as he could. Yeah, it was that guy.

[Prak]

I mean, playing really random motley groups is part of the point of Rifts. I think the other part of the point is loading up with MD weapons and blow shit up...

Yeah, based on what I've seen of Rifts, there's really not much of a coherent story to it, or the attempt to have serious drama. It's just a random clump of shit squished together.

It's just one of those things where you're just supposed to not think about it and try to enjoy yourself.

Well, it can have a coherent story if you heavily involve the Coalition, or if you really focus on character goals.

Count, in the words of the old wizards boards, your dm needs to be shot. with a hammer.

[Prak]

Skills

Skills are divided into 3 types – OCC Skills (which are essential to your class), OCC Related Skills (which are useful, but not essential to your class) and Secondary Skills (which are not related to your class). You get OCC Skills automatically, and can pick the rest in various ways described in your class. When you get a skill, you start with a fixed percentage chance of success, plus a certain percentage per level, which increases as you gain more levels.
One of the main things to remember about Rifts is that if you don’t have a skill, you cannot test against it at all. Bear this in mind when picking your skills. For a full list of what all skills do, check pages 307-33, and for a summary list, along with the percentages at which skills start and improve, on pages 305-6.

Note from Sinister: Why Kev decided to keep skills on percentiles, even though they are strictly incremented on 5% tiers, is fucking beyond me. It’s obvious the guy can’t design his way out of a wet paper bag, so we’re not gonna do it that way. Simply divide all values by 5, and use a d20. Nice and simple.

Actually, as someone said, not all the skills come in 5% increments.
By using a d20 you have to say there's always a five percent chance of fucking up, rather 2%. Unless you want to toss auto-fail on skills, which, meh, is up to you, I don't know how it affects things one way or the other.

[koz]

You make a point, Prak - clearly, I hadn't read it well enough to notice that.

[Prak]

which is understandable. My biggest problem with Rifts will always be how shittily the books are organized. I would actually defend in court someone who copied the books, and published them for their own profit, so long as the fucker organized the damned things in a useful manner.

[koz]

which is understandable. My biggest problem with Rifts will always be how shittily the books are organized. I would actually defend in court someone who copied the books, and published them for their own profit, so long as the fucker organized the damned things in a useful manner.

Defend? Fuck, I'll help him buy out Palladium!

[Absentminded_Wizard]

Skills

Skills are divided into 3 types – OCC Skills (which are essential to your class), OCC Related Skills (which are useful, but not essential to your class) and Secondary Skills (which are not related to your class). You get OCC Skills automatically, and can pick the rest in various ways described in your class. When you get a skill, you start with a fixed percentage chance of success, plus a certain percentage per level, which increases as you gain more levels.
One of the main things to remember about Rifts is that if you don’t have a skill, you cannot test against it at all. Bear this in mind when picking your skills. For a full list of what all skills do, check pages 307-33, and for a summary list, along with the percentages at which skills start and improve, on pages 305-6.

Note from Sinister: Why Kev decided to keep skills on percentiles, even though they are strictly incremented on 5% tiers, is fucking beyond me. It’s obvious the guy can’t design his way out of a wet paper bag, so we’re not gonna do it that way. Simply divide all values by 5, and use a d20. Nice and simple.

Actually, as someone said, not all the skills come in 5% increments.
By using a d20 you have to say there's always a five percent chance of fucking up, rather 2%. Unless you want to toss auto-fail on skills, which, meh, is up to you, I don't know how it affects things one way or the other.

I knew that as of the early 90s, there were skills on non-5% increments, but I kept my mouth shut because I wasn't sure if that had changed in 2nd Ed. Of course, I'm not sure Kevin Siembieda (I refuse to use his initials because they're the same as mine) is smart enough to have considered the auto-fail margin when he made the system up. My going theory is that he decided to look original by ripping off two systems. He used pre-3e D&D task resolution for combat and Runequest task resolution for non-combat skills. Well, except for the fact that Runequest skill advancement is considerably more random than Rifts.

[Prak]

well, and you can go far, far above 100% in a skill in runequest. but it has a 5% autofail (96-00%), with a 1% fumble chance. However, at 200% in a skill, that drops to 4%, at 300, 3%, 400, 2%, and at 500 and above you only ever have a 1% chance to autofail, and cannot fumble.