I could definitely see an Exalted "make your deck" combat system, kind of like Dominion (the card game). You can put as many zero-cost Motes, Feints, Attacks, and Defenses as you want, and all the "good stuff" you have to buy with limited resources (XP I guess).
The problem with Exalted Combat is that it sucks. There are no real choices to be made, a whole lot of dice get rolled, and the end results are not interesting. The game needs some entirely different combat engine and resource management system and terrain system plugged in sideways.
-Username17
Anatomy of Failed Design: Exalted
Moderator: Moderators
Dragon-Blooded are another faction in need of significant reimagining, considering that in the canon they are defined by their weakness. Dragon-Blooded should be those guys who get superpowers by training alot. Which, if the plank for training is set passably low, will easily make them the most numerous of Exalted. The caveat is, going up in Essence (i.e., character tiers) should require exponentially harder training from them, so any Dragonblood who wishes to achieve higher levels of power that come more or less naturally to other Exalted, must subject himself to DBZ-esque training from hell and, for truly earth-shaking power, eventually spend most of his waking moments bench-pressing mountains or whatever, then learn how to get enough sleep in one hour a week, and use the time saved to train some more. Which is too hard for most people. So, while the peak potential is equal for everyone, there are a lot weak Dragonbloods around, but relatively few badasses.
Strength of the bloodline still should be relevant, making much easier the initial Exaltation, but not the growth in power after it. So, Dragonbloods still will form dynasties, and their well-bred descendants will likely Exalt with just a mildly strenous training regiment, while son of a peasant from a middle of nowhere, whose ancestor had sex with a Dragon-Blood fifteen generation ago, will need to absolutely work his ass off to Exalt. But then he will be able to easily catch up with and overtake pansy-ass sons of nobles just by continuing to train as hard, thus enabling the stories about the triumph of virtue and hard work over ancestry.
Mechanically, Dragon-Bloods probably should have their elemental nuking, allowing them to easily take out large groups of people and to make their kung-fu hit at range. And cooperative effect Charms, as a legacy. The latter should work with Exalted of other types, though. Probably even work with Exalted of other types better - while I want all types be at least somewhat playable in single-splat parties, the benefits of cooperation between different Exalted should be obvious. Plus a wealth of element-related utility effects and best craft powers (due to affinity with elements and hard work). Social abilities/mindscrew and stealth probably should be their weaker areas.
Strength of the bloodline still should be relevant, making much easier the initial Exaltation, but not the growth in power after it. So, Dragonbloods still will form dynasties, and their well-bred descendants will likely Exalt with just a mildly strenous training regiment, while son of a peasant from a middle of nowhere, whose ancestor had sex with a Dragon-Blood fifteen generation ago, will need to absolutely work his ass off to Exalt. But then he will be able to easily catch up with and overtake pansy-ass sons of nobles just by continuing to train as hard, thus enabling the stories about the triumph of virtue and hard work over ancestry.
Mechanically, Dragon-Bloods probably should have their elemental nuking, allowing them to easily take out large groups of people and to make their kung-fu hit at range. And cooperative effect Charms, as a legacy. The latter should work with Exalted of other types, though. Probably even work with Exalted of other types better - while I want all types be at least somewhat playable in single-splat parties, the benefits of cooperation between different Exalted should be obvious. Plus a wealth of element-related utility effects and best craft powers (due to affinity with elements and hard work). Social abilities/mindscrew and stealth probably should be their weaker areas.
Last edited by FatR on Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
CatharzGodfoot
- King
- Posts: 5668
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm
- Location: North Carolina
Although I've never cracked an Exalted rulebook in my life, it seems like Feng Shui would be an almost perfect match for the style of combat, up to and including the very names of the moves.
You would have to stop using bullet time in favor of something slightly dumber like 'mote time' or 'angel time'.
You would have to stop using bullet time in favor of something slightly dumber like 'mote time' or 'angel time'.
The law in its majestic equality forbids the rich as well as the poor from stealing bread, begging and sleeping under bridges.
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
-Anatole France
Mount Flamethrower on rear
Drive in reverse
Win Game.
-Josh Kablack
I'm not familiar with Feng Shui, but judging by the thread about it that is on the first page now, it's not a very good fit. It only does action movies and has no real character progression.
Meanwhile, what about Abyssals? The main flaw of canonical Abyssals (besides being saddled with all-powerful Evil Overlords as bosses and the splat goal to destroy the world) is mechanical baggage, intended to keep them dark and evil, actually working very well. This is bad, because people who want to play Angsty Poet of Self-Pity the Abyssal probably are less than excited when their Resonance actually starts blowing up NPCs, particularly NPCs relevant to their personal dramas. While people who want to play Killfuck Soulshitter the Abyssal probalby don't really need to be prodded towards more murder and mayhem.
So, in my ideal Exalted, people who were prime candidates for an Exaltation of any other sort, but unfortunately bit the dust before actually getting it, might become Abyssals. They rise as empowered half-corpses, who need to drink blood or absorb ghostly Essence to recharge their magic juice. They don't suffer from Better Than You bosses or being hardcoded by fate to bring destruction to the world. While they might hear whispers of dead titans in their head, these are just powerless whispers. In fact, they are newcomers on the scene and the wild card in power games of both the Underworld and the Creation. While their feeding habits and power suite makes them naturally predisposed towards solving all problems by killing things and reanimating them as minions, exactly to the degree where Angsty Poet of Self-Pity can get his self-pity on, they are not naturally "evil". Come on, vampires of free-willed sort had a ton of nonlethal solutions to the problem of blood-drinking - without power of demigods.
Oh, and it is trendy among Abyssals to discard their old names and replace them with something pretentiously-sounding. Maybe because their Exaltation is so traumatic and transformative, maybe because the first Abyssal group to reach widespread fame set this trend.
Mechanically, Abyssals should do necromantic tricks naturally. (I don't think we need Necromancy as the dark mirror of Sorcery. Most of the things it does can just be rolled into Sorcery, and the rest can become Abyssal Charms.) Tricks like draining mooks for power and turning their their bodies or ghosts into minions on the spot should come naturally to Abyssals, turning them from simply competent to very powerful, when there actually are mooks around they can brutalize. Socially they should be geared towards obvious mind rape, or, at best, deceiving really well. Abyssals' flaw should be lack of "nice" powers that don't involve murder or clearly hostile mental intrusion, or making things, except making things from bodies of their fallen foes.
EDIT: Another question to anyone who is interested in my more creative-oriented posts about Exalted rather than rants, if there are any such people. Maybe I should post the thoughts about my ideal Exalted in a separate thread?
Meanwhile, what about Abyssals? The main flaw of canonical Abyssals (besides being saddled with all-powerful Evil Overlords as bosses and the splat goal to destroy the world) is mechanical baggage, intended to keep them dark and evil, actually working very well. This is bad, because people who want to play Angsty Poet of Self-Pity the Abyssal probably are less than excited when their Resonance actually starts blowing up NPCs, particularly NPCs relevant to their personal dramas. While people who want to play Killfuck Soulshitter the Abyssal probalby don't really need to be prodded towards more murder and mayhem.
So, in my ideal Exalted, people who were prime candidates for an Exaltation of any other sort, but unfortunately bit the dust before actually getting it, might become Abyssals. They rise as empowered half-corpses, who need to drink blood or absorb ghostly Essence to recharge their magic juice. They don't suffer from Better Than You bosses or being hardcoded by fate to bring destruction to the world. While they might hear whispers of dead titans in their head, these are just powerless whispers. In fact, they are newcomers on the scene and the wild card in power games of both the Underworld and the Creation. While their feeding habits and power suite makes them naturally predisposed towards solving all problems by killing things and reanimating them as minions, exactly to the degree where Angsty Poet of Self-Pity can get his self-pity on, they are not naturally "evil". Come on, vampires of free-willed sort had a ton of nonlethal solutions to the problem of blood-drinking - without power of demigods.
Oh, and it is trendy among Abyssals to discard their old names and replace them with something pretentiously-sounding. Maybe because their Exaltation is so traumatic and transformative, maybe because the first Abyssal group to reach widespread fame set this trend.
Mechanically, Abyssals should do necromantic tricks naturally. (I don't think we need Necromancy as the dark mirror of Sorcery. Most of the things it does can just be rolled into Sorcery, and the rest can become Abyssal Charms.) Tricks like draining mooks for power and turning their their bodies or ghosts into minions on the spot should come naturally to Abyssals, turning them from simply competent to very powerful, when there actually are mooks around they can brutalize. Socially they should be geared towards obvious mind rape, or, at best, deceiving really well. Abyssals' flaw should be lack of "nice" powers that don't involve murder or clearly hostile mental intrusion, or making things, except making things from bodies of their fallen foes.
EDIT: Another question to anyone who is interested in my more creative-oriented posts about Exalted rather than rants, if there are any such people. Maybe I should post the thoughts about my ideal Exalted in a separate thread?
Last edited by FatR on Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Yes. The reinterpretations of Exalted the past page or so have been interesting to see.FatR wrote:
EDIT: Another question to anyone who is interested in my more creative-oriented posts about Exalted rather than rants, if there are any such people. Maybe I should post the thoughts about my ideal Exalted in a separate thread?
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
-
RiotGearEpsilon
- Knight
- Posts: 469
- Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:39 am
- Location: Cambridge, Massachusetts
Okay, so... not Exalted, then, and completely counter to their thematic role at present.FatR wrote:Dragon-Blooded are another faction in need of significant reimagining, considering that in the canon they are defined by their weakness. Dragon-Blooded should be those guys who get superpowers by training alot.
Dude, you hate the mechanics and you think the setting is retarded, why are you trying to salvage it in to something that those of us who enjoy either of those things will stop liking?
Edit: No, actually, never mind, I apologize. I'm being needlessly acerbic, and YCMV. I encourage you to continue your creative works, because they are decent and good - just counter to my conception of what they're re-imagining.
Last edited by RiotGearEpsilon on Mon Aug 23, 2010 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The big problem with guys who get power purely by blood lies in the fact that it is practically impossible to present them as anything but villains in a conflict with guys who get power by merit. Assuming the latter actually get power by merit. Which they do here. The canon shifted back and forth on the matter, but all the changes amounted to either adding more grimdark or just accepting that Dragonbloods fail at life and should flock behind Solar banners again. Because the whole premise is inherently geared for a game where DBs are antagonists. Moreover, they need another one if they are supposed to work as equals in mixed parties without overrunning the setting by sheer numbers.
And I write this for the same reason people create tons of houserules for DnD, despite being unsatisfied with practically everything in the system, I guess.
And I write this for the same reason people create tons of houserules for DnD, despite being unsatisfied with practically everything in the system, I guess.
This please.FatR wrote: EDIT: Another question to anyone who is interested in my more creative-oriented posts about Exalted rather than rants, if there are any such people. Maybe I should post the thoughts about my ideal Exalted in a separate thread?
FrankTrollman wrote: Halfling women, as I'm sure you are aware, combine all the "fun" parts of pedophilia without any of the disturbing, illegal, or immoral parts.
K wrote:That being said, the usefulness of airships for society is still transporting cargo because it's an option that doesn't require a powerful wizard to show up for work on time instead of blowing the day in his harem of extraplanar sex demons/angels.
Chamomile wrote: See, it's because K's belief in leaving generation of individual monsters to GMs makes him Chaotic, whereas Frank's belief in the easier usability of monsters pre-generated by game designers makes him Lawful, and clearly these philosophies are so irreconcilable as to be best represented as fundamentally opposed metaphysical forces.
Whipstitch wrote:You're on a mad quest, dude. I'd sooner bet on Zeus getting bored and letting Sisyphus put down the fucking rock.
Simple fix to the DB problem: practicing the disciplines of the Immaculate faith actually increases the concentration of elemental power in your blood. Two mortal monks of great accomplishment should *expect* to birth a dragonblood, and a "spoiled" line can regain their purity with training and discipline.
That makes a DB-PC's status a matter of merit: not his individual merit, but the merit of the society that birthed him. I think you could tell a good story with DB heroes representing the beneficiaries of civilization against the crapicious, chaotic god-chosen Celestials.
That makes a DB-PC's status a matter of merit: not his individual merit, but the merit of the society that birthed him. I think you could tell a good story with DB heroes representing the beneficiaries of civilization against the crapicious, chaotic god-chosen Celestials.
-
RiotGearEpsilon
- Knight
- Posts: 469
- Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:39 am
- Location: Cambridge, Massachusetts
I find this a more subtle, but significant variant of the bloodline model. It still creates dragonblood who have acquired their power not through their own choosing, and who are tremendously blood-tied to those who came before them.Orion wrote:Simple fix to the DB problem: practicing the disciplines of the Immaculate faith actually increases the concentration of elemental power in your blood. Two mortal monks of great accomplishment should *expect* to birth a dragonblood, and a "spoiled" line can regain their purity with training and discipline.
That makes a DB-PC's status a matter of merit: not his individual merit, but the merit of the society that birthed him. I think you could tell a good story with DB heroes representing the beneficiaries of civilization against the crapicious, chaotic god-chosen Celestials.
I can see it both ways for the Dragonblooded.
Okay, sure, they gain the basis of their powers from bloodline. But the DB being able to choose if they work it or not -does- take the sting out of it. Any super-strong DB you see will have earned his strength by dedicating months or years of his life to acquiring it.
Okay, sure, they gain the basis of their powers from bloodline. But the DB being able to choose if they work it or not -does- take the sting out of it. Any super-strong DB you see will have earned his strength by dedicating months or years of his life to acquiring it.
He jumps like a damned dragoon, and charges into battle fighting rather insane monsters with little more than his bare hands and rather nasty spell effects conjured up solely through knowledge and the local plantlife. He unerringly knows where his goal lies, he breathes underwater and is untroubled by space travel, seems to have no limits to his actual endurance and favors killing his enemies by driving both boots square into their skull. His agility is unmatched, and his strength legendary, able to fling about a turtle shell big enough to contain a man with enough force to barrel down a near endless path of unfortunates.
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
--The horror of Mario
Zak S, Zak Smith, Dndwithpornstars, Zak Sabbath. He is a terrible person and a hack at writing and art. His cultural contributions are less than Justin Bieber's, and he's a shitmuffin. Go go gadget Googlebomb!
-
RiotGearEpsilon
- Knight
- Posts: 469
- Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:39 am
- Location: Cambridge, Massachusetts
FatR, about Abyssals.
First of all, Self-Pity Emo with Drama as it seems to me is failed concept. We have to play glorious and heroic characters and ANGST-BUTTHURT as characters main theme is better suited for some VtM.
Second, good guy with dark powers is a cliché, and actually quite annoying one (its controversial, evil guys with light powers is just as bad btw). It is usually used by players who think that they'll be very original with such "non-trivial" concept, or by players who want to play bad guy and master told them that this campaign is about good guys.
Third. There is nothing bad in Better than You Deathlords, as long as they are not dicks who are trying to use you. Even Son Goku had to train under teachers who were stronger than him. Well, eventually he surpassed them all. But still, there is nothing bad in sensei.
So, what I'm talking about. I like the ideas you suggest, but in case of Abyssals, as it seems to me, it kills their fluff so that this goth chick could play her whining "I have dark soul, ANGST" character. Better send her to VtM/VtR, Exalted is not about crying about your unique dork powahs.
As for me fluff changes should be quite simple:
1. No/Optional Resonance. The whole great curse idea sucks and stinks of WW plans of you not controlling your character so the Storyteller may humour you.
2. Deathlords are not megalomaniac dicks. They have their own visions that can appeal to players, so they may wish their character to follow the particular deathlord. They must be not all-powerful, but powerful enough to induce respect and to make you feel yourself tough guy when you become stronger than them - man, it is really cool to surpass your sensei. And yes, Deathlords are optional as well.
And about mechanics - making zombies and ghosts sucks in the game where armies can be sliced with several swings of daiklaive. May be the Abyssals must be the main Killing Machines, not Lunars (who have their shapeshifting powers)?
First of all, Self-Pity Emo with Drama as it seems to me is failed concept. We have to play glorious and heroic characters and ANGST-BUTTHURT as characters main theme is better suited for some VtM.
Second, good guy with dark powers is a cliché, and actually quite annoying one (its controversial, evil guys with light powers is just as bad btw). It is usually used by players who think that they'll be very original with such "non-trivial" concept, or by players who want to play bad guy and master told them that this campaign is about good guys.
Third. There is nothing bad in Better than You Deathlords, as long as they are not dicks who are trying to use you. Even Son Goku had to train under teachers who were stronger than him. Well, eventually he surpassed them all. But still, there is nothing bad in sensei.
So, what I'm talking about. I like the ideas you suggest, but in case of Abyssals, as it seems to me, it kills their fluff so that this goth chick could play her whining "I have dark soul, ANGST" character. Better send her to VtM/VtR, Exalted is not about crying about your unique dork powahs.
As for me fluff changes should be quite simple:
1. No/Optional Resonance. The whole great curse idea sucks and stinks of WW plans of you not controlling your character so the Storyteller may humour you.
2. Deathlords are not megalomaniac dicks. They have their own visions that can appeal to players, so they may wish their character to follow the particular deathlord. They must be not all-powerful, but powerful enough to induce respect and to make you feel yourself tough guy when you become stronger than them - man, it is really cool to surpass your sensei. And yes, Deathlords are optional as well.
And about mechanics - making zombies and ghosts sucks in the game where armies can be sliced with several swings of daiklaive. May be the Abyssals must be the main Killing Machines, not Lunars (who have their shapeshifting powers)?
I'm not overly familiar with Exalted, but if they've special ability is "back again, in greater numbers", maybe the Dragonblood player should have several Dragonblood PCs, or one plus piles of actually good henchmen, rather than having a single PC? Or would this just a nightmare with the large numbers of dice pools involved??FatR wrote:...all the changes amounted to either adding more grimdark or just accepting that Dragonbloods fail at life and should flock behind Solar banners again. Because the whole premise is inherently geared for a game where DBs are antagonists. Moreover, they need another one if they are supposed to work as equals in mixed parties without overrunning the setting by sheer numbers.
And I write this for the same reason people create tons of houserules for DnD, despite being unsatisfied with practically everything in the system, I guess.
Either this henchmens will be a weaklings who will cease to exist after first opponent's extra-attack combo, or, in case of multiple DB it will be accounting madness of tracking essence and init for several characters.Dragonblood player should have several Dragonblood PCs, or one plus piles of actually good henchmen, rather than having a single PC? Or would this just a nightmare with the large numbers of dice pools involved??
Also it is quite uncomfortable to play several characters at once. I'm not schizophrenic enough to argue with myself - and also it is hard to believe that my chars will think as one, so sooner or later I'll have to play schizophrenic and start arguing with myself.
-
DeadlyReed
- Journeyman
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:42 am
And who stand for exalted then? Solars with their "actually, we were depraved perverted maniacs so we were wiped out" fluff?
Illiad is bad example as for me, because heroes are inferior to the gods. The whole plot is about the gods. Exalted Achilles is slain by mega-NPC buffing other character, what a great idea. The whole army spent 10 years, while your exalted circle can smash the city with their swords.
Also in my opinion a good game is the one who can support both good, evil and whatever you like side, not only "you are teh good guys, go 2 the dungeon right nao". So the Abyssals as bad guys is a good choice.
Also, if you are familiar with DBZ - Piccolo is not good character, so is Vegeta. And in my personal opinion DBZ-theme is more suited than Illiad.
Illiad is bad example as for me, because heroes are inferior to the gods. The whole plot is about the gods. Exalted Achilles is slain by mega-NPC buffing other character, what a great idea. The whole army spent 10 years, while your exalted circle can smash the city with their swords.
Also in my opinion a good game is the one who can support both good, evil and whatever you like side, not only "you are teh good guys, go 2 the dungeon right nao". So the Abyssals as bad guys is a good choice.
Also, if you are familiar with DBZ - Piccolo is not good character, so is Vegeta. And in my personal opinion DBZ-theme is more suited than Illiad.
-
DeadlyReed
- Journeyman
- Posts: 111
- Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:42 am
In Exalted, no faction was supposed to stand for anything on a diametrical good-evil axis. In fact, the setting was to be morally ambiguous. The game's developer once succinctly summarized the game premise as "great people doing stupid things with great competence". The moment the Abyssals endorsed universal genocide was the moment Exalted became grimdumb.
Last edited by DeadlyReed on Thu Sep 09, 2010 3:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
Never before have I learned so much about something I care so little about.
For a minute, I used to be "a guy" in the TTRPG "industry". Now I'm just a nobody. For the most part, it's a relief.
Trank Frollman wrote:One of the reasons we can say insightful things about stuff is that we don't have to pretend to be nice to people. By embracing active aggression, we eliminate much of the passive aggression that so paralyzes things on other gaming forums.
hogarth wrote:As the good book saith, let he who is without boners cast the first stone.
TiaC wrote:I'm not quite sure why this is an argument. (Except that Kaelik is in it, that's a good reason.)
"Striker", "Fighter" and "Healbot" are failed concepts (due to being fundamentally uninteresting). "Murderous traitor" is a failed concept due to the cooperative nature of the game. "Whiny emo PoS" is okay, as long as the character does not shinj.Princess wrote:First of all, Self-Pity Emo with Drama as it seems to me is failed concept. We have to play glorious and heroic characters and ANGST-BUTTHURT as characters main theme is better suited for some VtM.
Of course. As I said a good game is the one which can support whatever you want (except for some obviously inappropriate ideas). "Go kill anyone!" as only evil guy option is bad.DeadlyReed wrote:The moment the Abyssals endorsed universal genocide was the moment Exalted became grimdumb.
And what if he annoys other party members?Starmaker wrote:"Striker", "Fighter" and "Healbot" are failed concepts (due to being fundamentally uninteresting). "Murderous traitor" is a failed concept due to the cooperative nature of the game. "Whiny emo PoS" is okay, as long as the character does not shinj.
Why his emoing never interferes with drawing a sword and slicing anyone in 33 pieces?
Well, I admit, may be my problem is that I never seen interesting characters of this type in game or some movie. But in my experience this angsty type is very annoying and usually favoured by persons who think that channelling their own goth-ness into character means being original.
That's an inter-party problem. Kender thieves are universally annoying. Emos aren't.Princess wrote:And what if he annoys other party members?
See, an RPG is not a movie, it doesn't pay to be original. People will want to recreate characters and archetypes they like. The goal is to design a game that is playable, interesting, popular and not offensive by itself, within the confines of a given genre and theme. So while raptors piloting F-22s might be somewhat out-of-genre, emos aren't as long as they still can slice anyone in 33+ pieces.Princess wrote:Why his emoing never interferes with drawing a sword and slicing anyone in 33 pieces?
Well, I admit, may be my problem is that I never seen interesting characters of this type in game or some movie. But in my experience this angsty type is very annoying and usually favoured by persons who think that channelling their own goth-ness into character means being original.
So "no emos" is a gamer preference, on par with "no slaveowner characters" or "no quoting Monty Python". "You can't be emo" is unnecessarily restrictive. Of course, "You have to be emo" is outright offensive.
Essentially, the lack of a ban on emo-ness is a direct consequence of "no Ultimate Evil™" principle. Not that Ultimate Evil can't be done well; it's just, as has been stated above by various posters, it shoehorns games to "we are heroes who go to save the world" and "we are assholes/retards who do not care about the world despite standing to gain the most from it not being a dung heap". And while you can make a good game of conking various faction leaders on the head and persuading them to go fight Evil, that plot is even more cliche. (Also, there's potential for the usual "perverted fucktards saving the world" offensiveness, but it's not the primary concern.)
Mythical heroes do not fight ultimate evil because the concept did not exist back then. Today, an evil giant steals your sister and you go and cave his skull in. Tomorrow, you meet a hot giantess, petition her father to allow marriage, challenge him to a contest that you rig, profit.
Good for me I never met kenders. As I already said I never met interesting Self-Pity Poet character, but I assume they may exist. The only thing I'm against is making the whole splat adapted for playing only Angsty Depressed pale Guy with dark powahs (especially popular with girls, *cough*Twilight*/cough*).
It's perfectly possible. Just make the following insertions into the fluff/backstory:FatR wrote:The big problem with guys who get power purely by blood lies in the fact that it is practically impossible to present them as anything but villains in a conflict with guys who get power by merit. Assuming the latter actually get power by merit. Which they do here.
-By using their elemental powers for anything at all, Terrestrial Exalted expand the influence of the Elemental Poles and Elemental Dragons that keep Creation stable. So, regardless of what a Terrestrial is actually doing with their powers, they're also ensuring that Creation doesn't run out of juice and melt back into the Wyld and that the Raksha can't storm into Creation enmasse and kill everyone.
-The Great Prophecy was about the Raksha invading Creation from the Wyld. The Gold Faction was convinced that the Solars could have won that war and wanted to help them do it, while the Bronze Faction were convinced that the Solars would have lost the war and sought an alternative in the Terrestrials and the Elemental Poles. The Silver and Iron Factions wanted to support the Lunar exalted and the Deathlords respectively, but were very tiny parties so nobody cares much.
-Wanting to get rid of one specific Dragon-Born, or even a large number of them isn't really all that evil. There's plenty of them to spare. Wanting to kill all of the Dragon-Born, or wanting to wipe out a whole clan of them is super reckless and a bad idea, since it will probably result in the world breaking. Likewise with wanting to do something like killing an Elemental Dragon, or putting out the eternal fires at the South Pole.
FrankTrollman wrote:I think Grek already won the thread and we should pack it in.
Chamomile wrote:Grek is a national treasure.