After Sundown

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 10:50 am

Koumei wrote:So, what was the latest book you're doing? And did you want any art for it?

I mean, I can't draw, what with my dominant shoulder being fractured, but I can do pastels with my left hand, and they turn out just fine - arguably better than drawing or painting, because they blend so well. Fire and smoke is especially awesome with pastels, for what it's worth, but living creatures and so on also work.

So if you wanted some free pictures to include, I could do some, scan them and send them your way. Obviously filed under "this can be used for profit or not, whatever, I don't even care".

The next After Sundown book is The Dark Reflection. So what is most needed art wise is pictures of Trolls, Mirror Goblins, Spriggans, Asura, Akuma, and Ifrit.

The next system is Heartbreaker: Asymmetric Threat. That's Frank Trollman's Cybrpunk Fantasy Heartbreaker.

-Username17

Koumei · Post by **Koumei** » Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:47 pm

You're actually calling it Heartbreaker? That's hilarious.

And yeah, I meant After Sundown. I'm not sure how great I'd be at cyberpunk stuff, it sort of calls out for high-detail pictures of intricate scenery and image manipulation to add weird crap. I'll see what I can do over the next few days.

Grek · Post by **Grek** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 4:46 am

Question: How much of a levethian are you expected to need to eat in order to transform into one yourself? Ie. if someone eats a pile of bugs from a Mi Go, does that turn them into one themselves?

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:46 am

Grek wrote:Question: How much of a levethian are you expected to need to eat in order to transform into one yourself? Ie. if someone eats a pile of bugs from a Mi Go, does that turn them into one themselves?

I don't think that should be explained or even consistent. Sometimes eating a finger pie should cause you to gradually degenerate, and sometimes it should take a big cannibal feast. Nailing down kilograms and such would just end up with people having D&D half-troll arguments.

-Username17

Calibron · Post by **Calibron** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:46 pm

Koumei wrote:You're actually calling it Heartbreaker? That's hilarious.

And yeah, I meant After Sundown. I'm not sure how great I'd be at cyberpunk stuff, it sort of calls out for high-detail pictures of intricate scenery and image manipulation to add weird crap. I'll see what I can do over the next few days.

I've become pretty adept at image manipulation. Just putting that out there.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:31 pm

Now there's a fascinating scenario/question...

What happens if a Reborn learns Patience of the Mountains and Restoration, dies, becomes mummified, and is reborn a century later as an archaeologist, excavates his former corpse, then invests power into it in some fashion? Heck, what happens to the whole reincarnation process at all once a Reborn learns Restoration?

rampaging-poet · Post by **rampaging-poet** » Sun Aug 14, 2011 6:26 pm

Since the Reborn's soul can presumably only be in one place at a time, I would assume that the mummified corpse loses all magical properties as soon as the Reborn is reborn. Alternatively, raising the corpse rips the soul from its present body and restores it to the previous one, most likely requiring the Reborn to be willing and/or in close proximity.

virgil · Post by **virgil** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:22 am

Another idea is that a Reborn who has Restoration will be able to regain all of his prior life's skills/powers when he awakens, rather than being a new Reborn with 'just' memories of prior lives; sort of like a free New Game+

Quantumboost · Post by **Quantumboost** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:18 am

Another possibility, which is probably the simplest by far, is that the soul of a Luminary who has Restoration stays in their body while dead. Then the soul never gets reincarnated in the first place, and they don't end up as a ghost either.

I don't see anything that singles out Reborn as being tremendously more likely to be reincarnated in the future than any other Luminary, either, so it's not a problem unique to Reborn. Dead Vampires, Leviathans, Witches, Lycanthropes, and maybe Prometheans with the power would have the same problem.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:43 pm

Presumably, a Luminary with the potential to become a Reborn could be transformed by a vampire before that happens. Does this mean that future incarnations (if there are any) will have memories of being a vampire? Presumably the vampire won't have any recollection of past incarnations. Could the Reborn soul incarnate into another luminary in the vampire's life time?

An easy explanation is that all luminaries are more open to the chains of lives that make up a reborn, and that some luminaries are more receptive than others. That, however, does not jive with the distinctive appearance issue. The above vampire will not only look like a dead person, but also different deader person.

So a slightly more complicated explanation would be that when a luminary with the potential to awaken as a Reborn becomes some other supernatural type (ghost, vampire, icharid, whatever), it is immediately possible for a new luminary to be born that looks just like them. When a Reborn's long-dead karmic ancestor is resurrected, the Reborn will most likely keep 'remembering' new experiences of the living ancestor. The ancestor might also get hazy, momentary glimpses of the karmic descendant. Pretty much just like it would work in a movie.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:57 pm

Probably a dumb question, but the temporary strength gains from the Clout disciplines and devotions are still subject to the Potency boosted attribute cap, right? I've got a player whinging about Giant Size being partly "wasted"* if that is the case. I already pointed out that for 4 PP some Strength, extra armor, a weapon upgrade and a Protean shift option (Helps beat stuff like Transformation) is pretty nice anyway, but he wants an answer from the horse's mouth.

Kaelik · Post by **Kaelik** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:20 pm

?????? WTF?

I think you might be the only person who ever assumed that.

I have always assumed this is false, I have always assumed that a starting character with 6 Str and Potency 1 who has advanced Clout has a Strof 8, not 7, and that they can actually use Vigor.

The entire point of the magic powers is they bypass even potency based attribute caps.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 8:41 pm

Potency raises your attribute caps and there is never any mention of an explicit augmented attribute cap ala shadowrun and this isn't actually WoD anymore so I'm a li'l fuzzy on whether magical abilities let you beat your magically raised attribute cap. I see "Here's stuff that raises your attributes and "Here is how high attributes can go" and references "magical powers that further increases attributes or skills" as a reason as to why supers have bigger pools than mundos. So, yeah, it is totally possible that we've got a game here where "further" means "further past the attribute cap" and that you can totally pile on ass-kicking forms until you beat your opponent to death with a pile of dice the size of a buick, but it's also possible that Frank intended there to be an upper limit on how much Strength Potence 1 guys can get and that there's multiple ways to get there that also give different side bennies.

Whipstitch · Post by **Whipstitch** » Sat Oct 01, 2011 11:05 pm

Oh, and for the record it's not even like I'm upset by the notion of Clouters with enormous strength scores given that with the right Authority set you can straight make a werewolf go fetch your slippers. Mostly the li'l argument we're having comes down to whether the mechanics really think he should stop trying to stack strength and pick up some mind games or utility powers.

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Sun Oct 02, 2011 1:53 am

The cap affects how far you can buy up your attributes. It never explicitly limits the numbers you end up withp

Cynic · Post by **Cynic** » Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:08 pm

Is there a cheat sheet for After Sundown?

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:35 pm

so, I like the Dresden Fate aspect system. would it be particularly problematic to tack it on for edge?

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:49 pm

Prak_Anima wrote:so, I like the Dresden Fate aspect system. would it be particularly problematic to tack it on for edge?

Not any more than it is on its own.

Fate allows players to gain an amount of narrative control by spending points. Which is laudable for this sort of game, but the amount of narrative control you gain is not tightly defined. Some Fate MCs will allow you to spend a point to have the investigating officer happen to be a sexy potential love interest, while others will give you crap about spending a point to make sure there is a socket wrench in the trunk of a car. Basically fate points function like the powers in Doubt - and as you might have noticed: I have not actually written that game and it is currently down to third or fourth in line.

Fate works well if everyone is playing fast and loose and is on a very similar page. But it doesn't work well if people at the table get into real disagreements about what is possible, because what is possible is both undefined in a literal sense and also unparseable from a "spirit of the rules" or a "physics of the world" standpoint. Fate points alter the narrative in a way that is specifically inconsistent with the expected behavior of the world around the characters under auspices that are at best vague hand-wavy suggestions.

If you are rolling with a group that has fun with Fate aspects and fate points and doesn't get into big arguments or have people get super frustrated at actual or perceived MC favoritism, then go for it.

-Username17

angelfromanotherpin · Post by **angelfromanotherpin** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:38 pm

I would love to see a sample combat for this system, because I suspect I'm fundamentally missing something. When I try, the results seem kind of extremely lethal for everyone.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:01 pm

Ok, thanks, Frank. I'll float it by the group as part if the system discussion and see the reception. I'm expecting one tentative hold out, but may be able to ameliorate.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 8:30 am

Umm.... am I missing something? It seems that mirror goblins can always pass through any mirror. Why the hell isn't the mundane world overrun with mirror goblins?

Edit: new, munchkiny questions.... How does a lunar time schedule interact with time zones? What's the flight speed of a Body Colony insect? and ultimately.... what happens if a character sends some of their body colony to a time zone where the moon is rising?

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 1:51 pm

They can pass through any mirror gate. People tend to break those when too many Mirror Goblins burst out.

-Username17

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 3:16 pm

Prak_Anima wrote:Edit: new, munchkiny questions.... How does a lunar time schedule interact with time zones? What's the flight speed of a Body Colony insect? and ultimately.... what happens if a character sends some of their body colony to a time zone where the moon is rising?

Presumably, if you travel east quickly enough, you can regain your power a bit sooner. An airplane would probably be a better bet, though.

Or if you travel really fast west, wait for the moon to rise again, and repeat, you could regain your power a bunch of times as the moon bobs up over the horizon, appears to set in the wrong direction, comes up again, etc. To eliminate that 'issue', you could require that the moon sets (actually sets, not just appears to dip below the wrong horizon) before you can once again regain power points from its rise.

Prak · Post by **Prak** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:18 pm

FrankTrollman wrote:They can pass through any mirror gate. People tend to break those when too many Mirror Goblins burst out.

-Username17

Ok, then I'm definitely missing something. How does a mirror gate differ from a normal mirror?

Shatner · Post by **Shatner** » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:31 pm

Prak_Anima wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote:They can pass through any mirror gate. People tend to break those when too many Mirror Goblins burst out.

-Username17
Ok, then I'm definitely missing something. How does a mirror gate differ from a normal mirror?

"Natural passage in and out of the Dark Reflection is almost always through fires or mirrored surfaces". There exist gates into the Dark Reflection. These gates (when they aren't flames) are always mirrors of some sort. Therefore, some number of mirrors will naturally be gates, though the majority of mirrors are not... they're just mirrors.

Since getting out of the Dark Reflection requires passing a Resistance test which is harder the higher your potency, many denizens of the Dark Reflection can't get out through most mirror gates even when they do find them. Increasingly powerful creatures require increasingly elaborate gates to get out, and while some rare gates might naturally allow a spriggin to slip through, most gates will admit nothing with a potency >= 1. Mirror goblins, however, have a potency of 0 so they can use any gate regardless, hence their association with popping out of even the most modest of natural gates... like the mirror in the women's bathroom of an asylum or something similarly thematic.

At least, that's my take on it.