Your preferred level of complexity in a game?

Elennsar · Post by **Elennsar** » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:58 pm

There are (more or less) only three basic stages of ammo, assuming running out will be true long enough to matter.

1) Plenty.

2) "Some". - Time to start conserving ammo.

3) "Looting the dead". Just what it says - this is the point when you are down to individual rounds.

Draco_Argentum · Post by **Draco_Argentum** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:23 am

RandomCasualty2 wrote:Well, mostly ghost recon occurs at long range, so that's a bit different because it's more of a snipers game than a close quarters combat.

It has plenty of close up stuff indoors. I still tap fire, just with threeish body shots if they're too close for a head shot. Or a single combat shotgun round. I'd do the same in a Quake style game but I'm not good enough to hit a fast moving target without spraying.

I'm pretty sure that noone is meant to fire wildly for anything other than supressive fire. If we were playing a SWAT rpg the PCs would definately be expected to keep shots on target. Maybe Sir Neil can chime in about military style. The important point being that its dependent on the genre.

RandomCasualty2 · Post by **RandomCasualty2** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:58 am

Draco_Argentum wrote: It has plenty of close up stuff indoors. I still tap fire, just with threeish body shots if they're too close for a head shot. Or a single combat shotgun round. I'd do the same in a Quake style game but I'm not good enough to hit a fast moving target without spraying.

I'm pretty sure that noone is meant to fire wildly for anything other than supressive fire. If we were playing a SWAT rpg the PCs would definately be expected to keep shots on target. Maybe Sir Neil can chime in about military style. The important point being that its dependent on the genre.

Yeah, nobody is really meant to fire wildly, but when someone is shooting at you, it's pretty easy to panic and just start dumping a lot of bullets.

But it should matter on the gun you're using. If it's a slow firing weapon like a rocket launcher or a shotgun, then generally people aren't just going to spray around with it (because spraying is ineffective iwth a slow RoF). If however you've got a full auto weapon, then spraying bullets is actually pretty likely unless you're in a situation where you're taking the opponent by surprise (like a sniper or a stealthy assault).

Really it's probably just something we should consider applying to semiautomatics and full auto weapons. Possibly burst too if you can fire a lot of rapid bursts.

But in terms of actual firefights, I remember Frank posted a statistic once which basically showed that even at close range, only around 50% of the bullets actually hit their targets, and there were a lot of wasted shots. Because really when the bullets start flying, people do tend to panic quite a bit.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:05 am

In actual shootouts, the number of bullets that actually hit anything are about one in six.

-Username17

CatharzGodfoot · Post by **CatharzGodfoot** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 9:12 am

FrankTrollman wrote:In actual shootouts, the number of bullets that actually hit anything are about one in six.

-Username17

That's 'cause, in real life, criminals tend to max out Gymnastics.

Draco_Argentum · Post by **Draco_Argentum** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 1:04 pm

Yeah, cops don't get enough training. Those are hit rates with semi autos too from the sounds of it, I'd hate to see SMGs used by those officers.

Anyone got stats for SWAT teams? My crap google-fu didn't turn up any.

Username17 · Post by **Username17** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:21 pm

I did look up the first mission of the SWAT: which was the fucking pathetic siege of a Black Panther compound in LA back in 1969:

In the ensuing four-hour siege, thousands of rounds of ammunition were fired, resulting in the wounding of three Panthers and three police officers. The Panthers finally surrendered to SWAT officers, whose first mission was now an indelible part of history.

Lame.

-Username17

Psychic Robot · Post by **Psychic Robot** » Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:13 pm

Level 2 warriors? In my campaign?

Draco_Argentum · Post by **Draco_Argentum** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 5:37 am

Psychic Robot wrote:Level 2 warriors? In my campaign?

Sounds more like 4e padded sumo.

angelfromanotherpin · Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:16 pm

Draco_Argentum wrote:
Psychic Robot wrote:Level 2 warriors? In my campaign?
Sounds more like 4e padded sumo.

No, this is 4e padded sumo: 'there is a fully attested report of a gunfight involving 3 guns and thirty shots fired that occurred entirely inside a police car, in which nobody was seriously injured.'

Roy · Post by **Roy** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:46 pm

angelfromanotherpin wrote:
Draco_Argentum wrote:
Psychic Robot wrote:Level 2 warriors? In my campaign?
Sounds more like 4e padded sumo.
No, this is 4e padded sumo: 'there is a fully attested report of a gunfight involving 3 guns and thirty shots fired that occurred entirely inside a police car, in which nobody was seriously injured.'

...What the fuck? What the fuck? What the fuck?

So who's the Cataclysmic Failer this time?

Heath Robinson · Post by **Heath Robinson** » Sat Apr 04, 2009 2:00 pm

People really suck at CQB in tight confines. We don't have multithreaded attention, nor do we have more than one set of visual sensory organs.

TavishArtair · Post by **TavishArtair** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:32 am

I would say it's more a function of our natural adrenaline response being really good for running away or hitting something. Not so much for aiming at people and pulling a trigger. This is why some sharpshooters abuse tranquilizers.

Draco_Argentum · Post by **Draco_Argentum** » Sun Apr 05, 2009 4:04 am

angelfromanotherpin wrote:No, this is 4e padded sumo: 'there is a fully attested report of a gunfight involving 3 guns and thirty shots fired that occurred entirely inside a police car, in which nobody was seriously injured.'

You got me there. I have no idea how sumos that padded managed to get into a cop car.