Character Optimization...

General questions, debates, and rants about RPGs

Moderator: Moderators

Ramnza
Associate Fence Builder
Posts: 191
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Re: Character Optimization...

Post by Ramnza »

Jack, I'm playing devil's advocate, because I do understand that you need to be intelligent with your character's abilities so that you pull your own weight. I, however, am worried about how much cheesing a person is expected to do. If I decide to play a straight rogue out of the PHB from 1st lvl to 20th lvl, no matter how much better you can make me if I were to take other prestige classes, all I want to do is be a rogue from 1st to 20th, am I not pulling my weight?


Jack wrote:As has been said, if you can't at least contribute meaningfully to an encounter of your CR, then your party is better off without you, even if they don't replace you.


What if I do without cheesing?
Thoth_Amon
Journeyman
Posts: 134
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Re: Character Optimization...

Post by Thoth_Amon »

Bad example.

Rogues are one of the Base classes that you can take to 20 and still be really useful and worthwhile. And their PrC's are generally not that great. (Possible exception being the GUild Thief in FRCS if it fits your flavor).

(Except the 20th level which comes with only a +1 BAB and a +1 Reflex so you would be better off taking a level of Ranger or Fighter, unless you intended to take epic levels and get epic feats in which case staying Rogue makes sense.

Skill Beast, Sneak Beast, and Special Abilities; it is all good.

Cleric or Sorcerer are better examples becasue all they get are spells, turning and familair advancement so not taking PrCs is a flat handicap.

TA
Jack_Lurch
Apprentice
Posts: 84
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Re: Character Optimization...

Post by Jack_Lurch »

Ramnza wrote:
I, however, am worried about how much cheesing a person is expected to do.


Jack, in your post wrote:
As has been said, if you can't at least contribute meaningfully to an encounter of your CR, then your party is better off without you, even if they don't replace you.


I didn't say anything about multiclassing or PrCing. I just said you need to be able to meaningfully contribute to challenges of your CR.

If you can do that without multiclassing (and a rogue and a druid can, as TA pointed out), more power to you.

That said, the idea that someone would do what you describe:

Ramnza wrote:
no matter how much better you can make me if I were to take other prestige classes, all I want to do is be a rogue from 1st to 20th, am I not pulling my weight?


I've never encountered this in 3rd Edition. Really.

In 2nd Edition multiclassing was a pain in the ass because of the way they handled leveling up, but in 3rd Edition, it's trivially easy and makes sense.

But even still, I've never met anyone who wanted to play a rogue. Everybody wants to play "A guy/girl like..." (tm).

Maybe it's someone you made up, or it may be someone from a movie, but nobody I've seen wants to play a straight class.

Say for instance you want to play A guy like... (tm) Indiana Jones.

Rogue doesn't do it. Fighter sure doesn't do it.

But nosing around in the splat books a bit, we see that Rogue (with high intelligence)/ Lasher/ Watch Detective/Temple Raider is about as close as you can get to IJ and still be playing D&D. True, your DM could always homebrew you a "Indiana Jones PrC", but this solution is straight out of the books.

Something more general, which was just being discussed at Nifty the other day, was the Mythic Knight, the incurably good guy in armor on the big white horse.

In theory, the Paladin does this ( :lol: ), but in practice we see it can be done better with PrCs, especially now that we can throw in BoED PrC's. (We will ignore the fact, as Frank keeps reminding us, that the concept of Exalted as written does not make you what most people would consider an upstanding citizen.)

Don't be afraid to look around at your multiclassing options, but to answer your question, so long as you meaningfully contribute to challenges of your CR, do whatever you want.

Actually, as we don't game together, do whatever you want anyway. I recommend the Sorceror/Monk/Psion as a matter of fact. :wink:

-Jack
User avatar
Count Arioch the 28th
King
Posts: 6172
Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2008 7:54 pm

Re: Character Optimization...

Post by Count Arioch the 28th »

You wanna play a character class from 1 to 20? that's fine.

Just don't put 12's in their most important stats.

I can't speak for everyone here, but I don't require cheezing anything. Just don't do something stupid that cripples your character.

Like taking 19 levels of wizard, then one level of forsaker.

(Or, rather, 19 levels of ANYTHING, then 1 level of forsaker.)
In this moment, I am Ur-phoric. Not because of any phony god’s blessing. But because, I am enlightened by my int score.
Post Reply