Draconomicon Prestige Classes...

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Maj
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Draconomicon Prestige Classes...

Post by Maj »

Why do these things have 12 levels instead of 10? I thought at first it might be for age categories, but can't find anything anywhere that relates age with level in the class.

Is it purely symbolic?

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Re: Draconomicon Prestige Classes...

Post by Count Arioch the 28th »

I'm guessing that for whatever reason, they didn't want to class to be conintued epically or something? I dunno, it seems odd to me as well.
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Re: Draconomicon Prestige Classes...

Post by Username17 »

Possible answers:

1> Originally they were going to do something cool - like have each of there be a "kit" that a Dragon could take, thereby replacing one of their hit dice each age category with a level of the class.

2> Originally it was going to be something retarded - like have each of these classes have a level maximum based on Draconic age category (making every Dragon into a massively multiclassed mishmash).

3> They just thought that since everything else about Dragons happened to be based on the number twelve - that class progressions should too. After all, nothing says "creature flavor" like having background metagame notions the players (let alone the characters) will never interact with add up to numerologically significant values.

In any case, whatever the original intent, it was as drained of flavor by the time it made it through the editor's final cut as a bowl of reconstituted cheese product.

Now for the bonus question: Why does it matter?

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Re: Draconomicon Prestige Classes...

Post by Maj »

Frank wrote:Now for the bonus question: Why does it matter?


Well, that's what I was trying to ascertain... Does it matter? If there is a good reason why these classes are set up this way, then do I need to be concerned about why normal characters have prestige classes that always add up to 10? Based on prior experience with WotC, it seems that prestige classes are balanced on a "please take me for 10 levels" kind of thing. Is this precedent for the alteration of that (yes... I know... like half the prestige classes that WotC puts out can hardly be called balanced)? Is there some sort of limitation that these prestige classes have on dragons that I missed when I first read the book? Does this 12 level thing mean that really, prestige classes don't have to be a set length and that you should just take the level that will best min/max your character's abilities?

I'm paranoid. I see weird numbers of levels in a prestige class, and I wonder. And then I see a whole new number-of-levels-classification that's race-specific, and I wonder even more. Trying to figure out why will tell me if it really does matter...

Because if the designers did have this really cool idea, and then they just dropped it, I can shrug, say "Meh", and assimilate the information. If not, I figure I at least ought to pay respects to another perspective on what I'm doing/thinking wrong.
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Re: Draconomicon Prestige Classes...

Post by Username17 »

The concept is that most of these classes are balanced against the first X levels of a Core Class, with X being the number of levels in the class.

Since as a rule of thumb, Core Classes are better in the first few levels, and occassionally at the end - this means that most PrCs are really good for a short period and then suck.

For example: The Core "Fighter" gets bonus feats at one per level for the first two levels, and one per two levels for the next eight. Many of the Fighter-like PrCs are balanced along these line. So the Knight Protector gets +2 to his Defensive Blow ability and the Shining Beacon ability at first level - but only adds +1 to his Defensive Blow ability at level 4. The fourth level is less than half of the efficacy of the first. The Tribal Protector gets a Bonus feat at level 5, but he gets a Bonus Feat at level 1 as well - and also gets a Tribal Favored Enemy Bonus and a Homeland Bonus as well.

And this isn't even counting the fact that the basic D&D premises for save accumulation have that Knight Protector getting twice the save bonus at level 1 as level 4 - and give the Tribal Protector +2 to two saves at level one and no bonuses at all at level 5.

The assumptions used in the vast majority of class design ensure that there is little or no reason to stay with any class as long as you can continue to raise the essentials of your character without interuption by multiclassing (essentials being BAB, Spellcasting, or Skills, depending upon the character).

Is it any wonder that 3 and 5 level PrCs tend to be a bit more enticing than 10 level ones? Essentially it's the same abilities that a ten level class would get, only with less filler, less levels, and most importantly: more ways to get those all-important and stackable save bonuses from multiclassing.

---

In short: there is not a single piece of rhyme or reason for why classes would be any particular number of levels, and the more you try to figure it out, the more the flawed assumptions come to light:

1> Classes are supposed to give good abilities at the beginning (so that a starting character can "feel" like the class), and at the end (to reward you for "sticking with" the class). That's retarded, because characters can and do just multiclass and cherry pick the best class opening gambits for ever - the mid-level desert doesn't actually have to be payed by anyone.

2> Classes give set progressions of whole number save and BAB bonuses - supposedly to make the math easier. In reality, these whole number bonuses come at breakpoints, meaning that classes are left with specific good and bad levels regardless of whether they are giving other good abilities or not. This again encourages people to abandon classes.

The assumptions of the Class System ensure that high levels in any class are simply a myth. So acting like there should be a specific number of high-end class levels is ludicrous. It doesn't matter how many levels there are - noone will take them anyway. Writing level 9 on any class is a waste of ink.

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Re: Draconomicon Prestige Classes...

Post by Ramnza »

Out of curiousity Maj, what Presitge class is it? I'm not familiar with the Draconomicon:bricks:
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Re: Draconomicon Prestige Classes...

Post by Essence »

All of the PrCs in the Draconomicon that are intended for use by a Dragon have 12 levels.



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Re: Draconomicon Prestige Classes...

Post by Maj »

What Ess said... All of the dragon-specific prestige classes have 12 levels. All of the non-dragon-specific prestige classes have either 10 or five levels.
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Re: Draconomicon Prestige Classes...

Post by Ramnza »

So I guess if you want a reason why...

Maj wrote: Why do these things have 12 levels instead of 10? I thought at first it might be for age categories, but can't find anything anywhere that relates age with level in the class.Is it purely symbolic?


...we can just assume that Dragons are in the title of the game so they get special treatment when it comes to classes. If you want to have a reason why.
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Re: Draconomicon Prestige Classes...

Post by Maj »

OMG: I totally missed Frank's response somehow...

Like I said... I was just wondering. Every now and again I find myself thinking that maybe the WotC writers are plotting something that might have meaning. I forget, though, that it's the marketing people who usually do the plotting (and actualization of same).

But I think at least one of the prestige classes doesn't suck - the Dragon Ascendant, who gets fighter BAB, monk saves, 6 + Int skill points, and turns you (a dragon) into a quasi-deity at 12th level. The desert has an oasis of gravy - things like a deflection bonus equal to your Charisma, an extra hit point per hit die (x6), and immunity to mind-affecting effects.

On the whole, though - You're right, Frank. The prestige classes largely suck, and there's no reason to not build your character level by level. I'm still favoring the "just make up your own damned prestige class" philosophy.

Thanx for assuaging my fears. I'll stop wondering now.

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