The Biden Administration (No Lago)

[tussock]

Just a bit shocked, that the whole "fuck the privacy of your physical body, no" thing coming down from the supreme court soon, which, like, it's behind all of modernity in the US, got all leaked and shit, and Biden's first speech after was how that could be bad and is a good reason for people to vote D in midterms.

Like, they have a majority to just enshrine it all in law, and, even a couple Republicans openly wanting it passed in the senate, and just not gunna.

It's such a weak presidency. Like, Trump just did whatever the fuck he wanted, most of his executive orders are still in place. Ludicrously incompetant nepotistic crook who didn't understand anything or even believe in anything got so much more done.

[MGuy]

I am shocked that it happened. More because I just thought the republican gimmick was similar to the democrat gimmick where they promise a bunch of stuff to act as smokescreen for them to swindle the rubes out of their money. Since it did happen that means enough people with enough money high on the food chain demanded it.

[Stahlseele]

Does that not also mean the government can then make vaccinations mandatory because fuck your bodily autonomy?
And is that not basically something the people who want to get rid of abortion also do not want?

[angelfromanotherpin]

The people who 'want to get rid of abortions' don't care about consistency or ramifications or abortions, only about harming poor and/or minority women. Conservative antivaxers never gave a single shit about 'bodily autonomy,' only about displaying loyalty to their tribe.

[Kaelik]

Does that not also mean the government can then make vaccinations mandatory because fuck your bodily autonomy?
And is that not basically something the people who want to get rid of abortion also do not want?

No, because the law is fake and precedent has never been a thing, and the court will of course rule that you can't do that because their job is to write the laws they like and not the ones they don't like.

[MGuy]

There's no point in trying to reason out what conservatives in this country desire. They will believe whatever they are told to believe and those who don't necessarily buy into "every" bit of propaganda will still vote the same anyway right up until they are personally inconvenienced enough to reconsider. Though COVID has proven that a scary number of them will hold on to their dumb convictions even on their death bed.

[phlapjackage]

Does that not also mean the government can then make vaccinations mandatory because fuck your bodily autonomy?
And is that not basically something the people who want to get rid of abortion also do not want?

The "govt" already does make some vaccinations mandatory, there are numerous vaccinations you get as a child - I won't say they are 100% mandatory as I think you can decline them but then you are barred from some things like the education system.

Also I think that this argument is dishonest - vaccinations aren't just about bodily autonomy, they're about the common good. We want everyone to be vaccinated against polio, as a society. If you want to talk about abortion and the common good, there are numerous studies that say allowing a woman access to healthy decisions about her body are a positive for society. The only arguments against are religious, and, well...

*edit* I should delete this whole post, I failed at reading comprehension and after re-reading your post I think I understand what you're saying - and yeah, I think the fact that in theory the abortion/bodily autonomy issue could be applied to people who are anti-vax (probably a very big intersection of people), but common sense doesn't matter much here

[Kaelik]

One of two things is true:

1) Joe Biden has the memory of a goldfish.

2) Joe Biden really fucking wants you dead from Covid as soon as possible.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... d-ukraine/

They are doing the goddam BBB vs BIF thing all over again, where he gives republicans 100% of what they want and then asks them to pretty please get around to the thing he wants now that's he's been a good little boy and done as they told him to.

[Kaelik]

The Democrats in the Senate just responded to the overturning of Roe V Wade by passing the More Cops to Beat Up Anyone Who Disagrees With Samuel Alito Act.

The Democrats.

[NOTNOThyzmarca]

Just a bit shocked, that the whole "fuck the privacy of your physical body, no" thing coming down from the supreme court soon, which, like, it's behind all of modernity in the US, got all leaked and shit, and Biden's first speech after was how that could be bad and is a good reason for people to vote D in midterms.

Like, they have a majority to just enshrine it all in law, and, even a couple Republicans openly wanting it passed in the senate, and just not gunna.

It's such a weak presidency. Like, Trump just did whatever the fuck he wanted, most of his executive orders are still in place. Ludicrously incompetant nepotistic crook who didn't understand anything or even believe in anything got so much more done.

The Democrats don't have the majority to pass this. To do that they'd need 60 or probably 63 Senators knowing where some D-Senators will fall. They only have 50 That's not enough to beat a filibuster, and without both Manchin and Sinema and Collins, not enough to do anything. Basically, the Democrats need to win 13 more Senate seats if they want a chance to pass anything related to protecting Abortion rights.

On the other hand, in December Biden had the FDA quietly remove restrictions on sending abortion pills through the mail, so now at home abortions are available to everyone in the US no matter where they live. While many states make it a crime to send abortion pills through the mail, there are many sketchy online pharmacies that don't give a crap about state laws and sites like Plan C can direct you to several of them.

https://www.plancpills.org/

One of two things is true:

1) Joe Biden has the memory of a goldfish.

2) Joe Biden really fucking wants you dead from Covid as soon as possible.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-roo ... d-ukraine/

They are doing the goddam BBB vs BIF thing all over again, where he gives republicans 100% of what they want and then asks them to pretty please get around to the thing he wants now that's he's been a good little boy and done as they told him to.

I think most sane people agree that though COVID is bad, destroying Russia is a much higher priority. I do not want Biden to pass up a chance to destroy Russia just because the Republicans don't want to pass more COVID relief.

[Kaelik]

Lmaoooooooo. Jesus christ.

Loving funding proxy wars so much that you hope another huge wave fucking kills a bunch of people so long as you get to keep funding a proxy war to "destroy" a country is basically just the Mitchell and Webb skulls sketch.

[MGuy]

I don't see how Biden making that move actually helps anything. The problem is that we are losing a right and in many places actually doing that will be punishable by law. You can say that the Dems don't have the votes to actually combat this, and I'd agree, but that does not bode well for them because the narrative that bolsters is that Dems never do anything. There are a lot of things they could do to make it seem like they care like actually whipping votes or doing less to keep people from harassing the people looking to strip their rights from them.

I think most sane people agree that though COVID is bad, destroying Russia is a much higher priority. I do not want Biden to pass up a chance to destroy Russia just because the Republicans don't want to pass more COVID relief.

Do you know anyone who actually thinks that destroying Russia > Pandemic other than yourself? Is this a thing that, in your circles, is talked about as both a sane thing to believe and a legit dichotomy? We're not about to "destroy" anyone. All this funding is going towards is prolonging conflict and even if total destruction of the Russian state were on the table why the fuck would you prioritize that over the health and safety of american citizens? How is that sane?

[Neo Phonelobster Prime]

I honestly thought the destroying Russia thing was some sort of clumsy satire.

[PseudoStupidity]

If I had to guess based on my experiences it's mostly wealthy dipshits who support the war, which is the same group of people who own all of our media, and so if you run in certain social circles you might actually think destroying Russia is a popular opinion. I don't think it's actually a popular opinion, though, as only 31% of Americans think that we're doing too little to support Ukraine.

Also a hard disagree on what Hyz thinks a sane opinion is. I am pleasantly surprised by how sane the US public is being in regards to Ukraine, given how insane we were when it came to Iraq and Afghanistan. It's not perfect, but at least we aren't trying to send US troops yet, no matter how much my coworkers talk about how we need to support the Ghost of Kiev.

[The Adventurer's Almanac]

I think most sane people agree that though COVID is bad, destroying Russia is a much higher priority. I do not want Biden to pass up a chance to destroy Russia just because the Republicans don't want to pass more COVID relief.

We HAVE to destroy Russia. Joe Biden, please send as many stinger missiles and M4A1s as possible to Ukraine so our friends the Azov Battalion can kill every dirty Ruskie in sight. President Zelensky MUST fly an F-35 over Moscow. This is vitally important to America.

[NOTNOThyzmarca]

I don't see how Biden making that move actually helps anything. The problem is that we are losing a right and in many places actually doing that will be punishable by law. You can say that the Dems don't have the votes to actually combat this, and I'd agree, but that does not bode well for them because the narrative that bolsters is that Dems never do anything. There are a lot of things they could do to make it seem like they care like actually whipping votes or doing less to keep people from harassing the people looking to strip their rights from them.

The thing is, people commit crimes all the time. People get away with crimes all the time. Most crimes are never solved. Most murders are never solved. It is very difficult to actually detect and solve crimes. If something is illegal, that doesn't mean that it can't be done. It doesn't mean that it won't be done. And it doesn't mean that most people who do it won't get away with it.

The entire point of the rules change is to facilitate illegal abortions, to make it easier for women to beak the law. Women will do this, and women who in red states and need abortions should be encouraged to do this. It is almost impossible for state police to know that she ordered this and there are ways to obfuscate her identity so that it becomes even more difficult (disposable debit card and a PO box under a fake name, for example).

It doesn't look like much, but it really does drastically increase abortion access in red states by allowing women to completely bypass state level regulations.

It is likely that some women will be arrested for doing this, but the vast majority won't. And though it isn't a perfect solution, it's a bandaid for the time being until we can get something better. This move does absolutely help real people in the ground.

Biden really should be louder and more explicit about that. But I can see why he thinks it might be bad optics to get on national television and tell women to break the law.

All this funding is going towards is prolonging conflict and even if total destruction of the Russian state were on the table why the fuck would you prioritize that over the health and safety of american citizens? How is that sane?

Not seconding weapons to Ukraine would prolong the war. Ukraine can't surrender because they know what Russia would do to them if they did, considering what's already happened in Russian controlled areas with the mass deportations , systematic rapes, and mass murder. They're not going to subject themselves to that. At the same time, Russia isn't going to accept anything less than total subjugation of Ukraine. There is no space for negotiation between these two positions. There's no way this can end unless one side or the other is completely broken. I'm sure you can see how the Ukranians might think "you can rape me, but you have to promise not to cum" isn't a good compromise.

Further COVID relief is a different issue, and if Republicans care enough to scuttle a pro-Ukraine bill that it's attached to, then it's going to be hard to push it through. This isn't an either-or question. This is a Ukraine or neither question, because COVID relief isn't getting through.

[Kaelik]

How you know someone is a very real international relations expert who has smart opinions is they say "there are two sides in a war and the only two options are total and complete subjugation of one country. There is no room for a negotiated solution of any kind. Please don't negotiate. Don't do it! It's a waste of time. If you do it fuck you!"

[PseudoStupidity]

I truly don't understand how someone can watch a war go on for three fucking months and somehow think the war continuing indefinitely isn't worse for the country the war is happening in than a negotiated peace. Ukraine could let Russia take the areas it's currently occupying and have the war end (assuming both parties agree to it). It's Ukraine's decision as to what it wants to do, and I understand if they want to fight it out to the bitter end, but it's insane to think "we need to bathe the world in blood rather than give a single inch. Blood for the blood god, skulls for the skull throne!" is a good policy at this current stage of the war. The war is almost definitely going to end in some sort of brokered peace settlement, that's just how modern wars end.

And of course ending the war sooner rather than later saves lives. I would love for the war to end tomorrow; I think most people would like that quite a bit. I'd also love for Russia to completely pull out of Ukraine, but I kinda doubt that's a thing that is going to happen unless we kill hundreds of thousands of people.

[Kaelik]

My favorite thing is that presumably "destroying Russia" and Russia being "completely broken" probably implies a reconquest of Crimea too.

So not just total withdrawal of Russia would be acceptable, a lot of these people are advocating for what amounts to continue war even if Russia was willing to do a total withdrawal of all forces related to this war. I've had more then one conversation with someone where they said a lot of "total victory for Ukraine" stuff and when pressed eventually said "Yes obviously we have to reconquer crimea too!"

[NOTNOThyzmarca]

I truly don't understand how someone can watch a war go on for three fucking months and somehow think the war continuing indefinitely isn't worse for the country the war is happening in than a negotiated peace. Ukraine could let Russia take the areas it's currently occupying and have the war end (assuming both parties agree to it). It's Ukraine's decision as to what it wants to do, and I understand if they want to fight it out to the bitter end, but it's insane to think "we need to bathe the world in blood rather than give a single inch. Blood for the blood god, skulls for the skull throne!" is a good policy at this current stage of the war. The war is almost definitely going to end in some sort of brokered peace settlement, that's just how modern wars end.

And of course ending the war sooner rather than later saves lives. I would love for the war to end tomorrow; I think most people would like that quite a bit. I'd also love for Russia to completely pull out of Ukraine, but I kinda doubt that's a thing that is going to happen unless we kill hundreds of thousands of people.

Lets see what happens if Putin wins.

1) He kills all the Ukrainian leadership. This isn't limited to Kiyv, this includes local leaders, town mayors, village councils, prominent people. They're all dead straight away. Bullet to the brain and a shallow grave. Anyone with the slightest leadership position in an occupied area is dead. We know this is the case because he has been doing this.

2) He kills a lot of teachers. We're not just talking about intellectuals, but down to the preschool level. Because early childhood teachers are an important source of transmitting cultural information. They're dead. We know that this is the case because he has been doing this, as well.

3)He's going to relocate millions of Ukranians to slave labor camps in Russia. We know this is the case because he is already doing this. A lot of Ukrainians are going to die in those camps, because that's that what happens when you work people to the bone with inadequate nutrition and poor medical care and that's the point of them.


You do not save lives by capitulating to genocide. Capitulating to genocide means that more people die, not fewer. They're not going to stop people just being the war is over. They're going ramp it up because they don't have to dedicate resources to fighting.

[The Adventurer's Almanac]

Yes, that's why we have to genocide the Russians first. Pre-emptively.

[NOTNOThyzmarca]

Yes, that's why we have to genocide the Russians first. Pre-emptively.

Why yes.

Ukraine soldier blows up Russian tanks = Genocide

Russian soldier posts videos of himself shoving his dick into a three month old Ukrainian baby on Telegram = heroically defending innocent Russians from Ukrainian aggression.

[MGuy]

Hyz the fact that people can break the law and mail order stuff has been true before December. Trust me, women find ways to do things. The issue here is not whether or not some number of women have access to it. It's that they can be arrested for it in the first place and worse the GOP can always outlaw even that. You are still missing the forest for the trees here. That 'some number of women can get arrested for it' is a big big big problem without even going into how draconian they can get about detecting who is doing what. This stealth change doesn't help. It doesn't even help people who have problems that they definitely will need a clinic to help resolve. This isn't just a 'he doesn't have the perfect solution to perfectly solve the issue' this is a situation where this doesn't do dick to solve the actual problem. I'm not so charitable that I'm just going to take it as a given that this even significantly helps anyone either because I have not seen any numbers on it. It might but might is not good enough. It never has been.

There's no way this can end unless one side or the other is completely broken.

So I mentioned turning Ukraine into Afghanistan and I'd like to point out that it is perfectly possible to get out of an intractable war without the super power in that war actually being broken. It's happened. Multiple times. To the US. The US is not broken. Additionally the US has also done the send weapons to other states in conflict thing and that has only ever prolonged conflicts and caused additional suffering. So you're wrong about how a war 'must' end and the solution you're supporting now is one that has been proven to do nothing but extend conflicts and support genocides. We did the arming allies thing even in ww 2 and that war didn't end through arms trade. It ended through a lot of killing with our own, and other state powers, soldiers. Putting boots on the ground in Russia isn't on the table. So the only other avenue proven to end conflicts is peace.

[NOTNOThyzmarca]

So I mentioned turning Ukraine into Afghanistan and I'd like to point out that it is perfectly possible to get out of an intractable war without the super power in that war actually being broken. It's happened. Multiple times. To the US. The US is not broken. Additionally the US has also done the send weapons to other states in conflict thing and that has only ever prolonged conflicts and caused additional suffering. So you're wrong about how a war 'must' end and the solution you're supporting now is one that has been proven to do nothing but extend conflicts and support genocides. We did the arming allies thing even in ww 2 and that war didn't end through arms trade. It ended through a lot of killing with our own, and other state powers, soldiers. Putting boots on the ground in Russia isn't on the table. So the only other avenue proven to end conflicts is peace.

The thing is, Ukraine is winning. They're winning pretty consistently and handily.

Russia have spent decades worth of stockpiles in three months and does do not have the economic capability to replenish them. They just don't. They've lost an absurdly large number of flag officers. The Russian Federation has tried to maintain a military that could compete with the USA on less than a tenth of the budget. And that just doesn't work. The attempt just spread their budget way too thin. And instead of fixing soviet-era perverse incentives that encouraged corruption, they turned a blind eye to corruption and added even more perverse incentives. The result is that what Russia has on paper is very different from what it has in realty. What it has in reality isn't great. Heck, they've got tanks without composite armor because their tank mechanics ripped the armor inserts out to sell for scrap.

Russia lost the Moskva, the flagship of their black sea fleet. And they won't be able to replace it. Not within the next 30 years. There's still a 95% finished Slava class ship sitting in a Ukranian drydock since the dissolution of the USSR because Russia couldn't afford to finish it. Every loss Russia takes in this conflict is, for all practical purposes, a permanent loss.


The same is not true for Ukraine, because Ukraine has the infinite gear cheat code turned on. We're doing that for them with our donations and now with lend-lease. Ukraine also has the infinite morale cheat code turned on. Russia did that for them, with Bucha and so many other atrocities.

Russian soldiers are fighting for a paycheck. And it's shitty paycheck. Like, $100 a month. Which is one of the main reasons there has been so much looting. And there have been stories of Russian soldiers sabotaging their own equipment so that they don't have to fight. Very few want to be there.

Ukrainian soldiers are fighting for their lives, their families, and their homes. They know that defeat or surrender means death for themselves and everyone they care about. They know that anyone they leave in Russian hands will suffer immeasurably.

There's nothing intractable about this war. Ukraine has been consistently defeating Russia.



Furthermore, Afghanistan is not a good example for a variety of reasons. The most obvious being distance. Afghanistan is on the other side of the world from the USA. Ukraine is right next door to Russia. The other Russia's stated intent to annex the Ukranian oblasts it controls. This would be equivalent to the USA making Afghanistan the 51 American State, which drastically changes the calculus. At that point it's no longer an occupation of a foreign country, but a civil war in your own country. An insurgency requires support from the local population. The USA's COIN strategy was always to earn the love and respect of the local population. We were terrible at this and failed to understand the culture and the local power structures. The Taliban took advantage of that. Throughout history Russia's COIN strategy has always been the much simpler expedient of getting rid of the local population, which makes an insurgency much harder. And, of course, the Taliban had Pakistan to act as a safe haven while being a nominal US ally. The only safe havens for a Ukranian resistance would be NATO countries, which would mean allowing them to stage attacks against Russian assets from NATO countries. I'm sure you can see the problem with that if we want to avoid war between Russia and NATO.

[MGuy]

So the thing you quoted was a refutation of the idea that war must end through endless weapon peddling and that the US's interference globally has been negative. This nation has caused orders of magnitude more suffering than Russia has and it remains uncrushed. I don't know who most of your response was for but it very clearly wasn't for me. I still haven't seen a good reason to prioritize war profiteering above the health and safety of US citizens. Your bloodlust for Russian lives is not appealing to me.