Coronavirus thread

[Username17]

So the important thing to remember about shops being ordered open is that customers don't magically appear. More than 70% of people are fearful to go to the fucking grocery store right now, business is not going to be normal in salons, sit down restaurants, and movie theaters. It just really obviously isn't. Iowa hasn't ordered anything closed, and unemployment is still through the roof.

What this means is that Republican governors saying they are going to order businesses open are not saving those businesses, they are destroying them. The companies they are intervening on behalf of are actually the insurance companies.

If small businesses aren't getting any money from customers but also aren't being forced to close, the insurance companies don't have to pay out jack shit. The company is going out of business due to simple lack of customers rather than a declared emergency.

The states "staying open" (Arkansas, Iowa) or "re-opening" (Georgia, Ohio) are simply shifting the financial losses from big business to small business. Also killing a large number of people to do it, of course.

-Username17

[deaddmwalking]

I'm sure there are some people who are planning on going to movie theaters, barbershops and bars the moment they're legally allowed to, but not ME.

In Tennessee, the Governor's 'Shelter at Home' order ends on 4/30, so businesses can resume normal operations on 5/1. My family fully expects a surge in Covid-19 cases 2 weeks after. We are planning on observing the Safer-At-Home order until 5/31 at the earliest. We'll go to the grocery store as infrequently as possible and won't be engaging in other economic activity in person until then.

The schools aren't going to hold classes for the rest of the academic year. We have basically no compelling reason to 'go out' until school resumes.

[hyzmarca]

So the important thing to remember about shops being ordered open is that customers don't magically appear. More than 70% of people are fearful to go to the fucking grocery store right now, business is not going to be normal in salons, sit down restaurants, and movie theaters. It just really obviously isn't. Iowa hasn't ordered anything closed, and unemployment is still through the roof.

What this means is that Republican governors saying they are going to order businesses open are not saving those businesses, they are destroying them. The companies they are intervening on behalf of are actually the insurance companies.

If small businesses aren't getting any money from customers but also aren't being forced to close, the insurance companies don't have to pay out jack shit. The company is going out of business due to simple lack of customers rather than a declared emergency.

The states "staying open" (Arkansas, Iowa) or "re-opening" (Georgia, Ohio) are simply shifting the financial losses from big business to small business. Also killing a large number of people to do it, of course.

-Username17

That's not the only reason. There's a reason why hair salons and tattoo parlors are specifically being reopened. Aside from that one lady with really atrocious hair that really needs an emergency cut, that is. Hair stylists and tattoo artists are generally classed as freelancers. They don't get paid to sit around the shop, they get a commission on their work, and cultivate personal client lists. Same with personal trainers at gyms. Freelancers generally don't qualify for unemployment, because they were never classified as having employment. Except that the CAREs act says that they do now. And most state systems are not set up to handle this. In the literally, people freelancers who now qualify for unemployment can't apply because the forms do not have a box they can check to indicate their status. In Georgia, the state website literally says that you have to apply and be rejected, and then they'll email you a link to the new application when they finish making it, which has an unspecified time frame. Many other states are facing similar implementation issues. It's a lot easier, and a lot cheaper, if you open up salons so that all of those freelance beauticians don't qualify for unemployment anymore.

[Korwin]

So I watch Dr. John Campbell sometimes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFt2rCeHe4k

Interesting tidbits (for me):
Death toll in the UK is only counting deaths in hospitals at the moment (19:50)
While in most places men have an higher chance to die from C-19, in Australia it seems its more 50:50 (29:30)

And he has an link to an more in depth site.
For example in Austria we got our active cases back to the number we had a month ago (shortly after we started the social distancing - meaning it's not over yet --> but restriction are getting losened...).
Or the UK has more active cases than Italy or Spain.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Would be nice if the numbers of the different countries would get an reliability rating...

[RobbyPants]

So the important thing to remember about shops being ordered open is that customers don't magically appear. More than 70% of people are fearful to go to the fucking grocery store right now, business is not going to be normal in salons, sit down restaurants, and movie theaters. It just really obviously isn't. Iowa hasn't ordered anything closed, and unemployment is still through the roof.

What this means is that Republican governors saying they are going to order businesses open are not saving those businesses, they are destroying them. The companies they are intervening on behalf of are actually the insurance companies.

If small businesses aren't getting any money from customers but also aren't being forced to close, the insurance companies don't have to pay out jack shit. The company is going out of business due to simple lack of customers rather than a declared emergency.

The states "staying open" (Arkansas, Iowa) or "re-opening" (Georgia, Ohio) are simply shifting the financial losses from big business to small business. Also killing a large number of people to do it, of course.

-Username17

Are you talking about unemployment insurance or something else? What private insurance are they collecting?

[hyzmarca]

So the important thing to remember about shops being ordered open is that customers don't magically appear. More than 70% of people are fearful to go to the fucking grocery store right now, business is not going to be normal in salons, sit down restaurants, and movie theaters. It just really obviously isn't. Iowa hasn't ordered anything closed, and unemployment is still through the roof.

What this means is that Republican governors saying they are going to order businesses open are not saving those businesses, they are destroying them. The companies they are intervening on behalf of are actually the insurance companies.

If small businesses aren't getting any money from customers but also aren't being forced to close, the insurance companies don't have to pay out jack shit. The company is going out of business due to simple lack of customers rather than a declared emergency.

The states "staying open" (Arkansas, Iowa) or "re-opening" (Georgia, Ohio) are simply shifting the financial losses from big business to small business. Also killing a large number of people to do it, of course.

-Username17

Are you talking about unemployment insurance or something else? What private insurance are they collecting?

Business interruption insurance.
https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IN/IN11295

[Kaelik]

So the important thing to remember about shops being ordered open is that customers don't magically appear. More than 70% of people are fearful to go to the fucking grocery store right now, business is not going to be normal in salons, sit down restaurants, and movie theaters. It just really obviously isn't. Iowa hasn't ordered anything closed, and unemployment is still through the roof.

What this means is that Republican governors saying they are going to order businesses open are not saving those businesses, they are destroying them. The companies they are intervening on behalf of are actually the insurance companies.

If small businesses aren't getting any money from customers but also aren't being forced to close, the insurance companies don't have to pay out jack shit. The company is going out of business due to simple lack of customers rather than a declared emergency.

The states "staying open" (Arkansas, Iowa) or "re-opening" (Georgia, Ohio) are simply shifting the financial losses from big business to small business. Also killing a large number of people to do it, of course.

-Username17

Are you talking about unemployment insurance or something else? What private insurance are they collecting?

While some or all of them might have insurance to cover natural disasters that covers this, another thing to understand is that when your landlord sues for evicting your small business or tries to collect rent, or the bank demands payment of the mortgage, or existing supply contracts require you to accept delivery of supplies you cant use or sell that most contract law has provisions for Force Majeure which can be read into even contracts that dont have it explicitly.

So if the state wont let you operate, your landlord eats the losses, but if you are open but no one is showing up, that's just low sales and you eat the losses.

[RadiantPhoenix]

Cuomo literally told people who can't afford food because the state is taking too long to respond to go get a job.

I really hate blue states that elect republican governors like Maryland, Massachusetts, and New York.

Can I get a link to the exact quote?

[Username17]

Cuomo literally told people who can't afford food because the state is taking too long to respond to go get a job.

I really hate blue states that elect republican governors like Maryland, Massachusetts, and New York.

Can I get a link to the exact quote?

Kaelik is in all ways and at all times acting in bad faith. Presumably he's talking about This.

People were asking him if the people saying that the "cure was worth than the disease" had a point. He said that was ridiculous. He listed a whole bunch of things that were various degrees of bad, and kept coming back to the harsh reality that death is still worse than that.

Nothing comes before the public health risks of somebody else's life.

His message specifically to the anti-lockdown protesters was that if they wanted to get to work so badly, they should get a job as an essential worker. That Kaelik is trying to pretend this is some Après moi, le deluge statement is because Kaelik is a barefaced liar who is always always acting in bad faith. Always. No exceptions.

Let's be real here: Cuomo is a replacement level Democrat at best. But Kaelik is never ever giving good faith criticism of Cuomo, because Kaelik is a completely unhinged lunatic who gets his information from the most very only and extremely deranged portions of horseshoe left twitter. Right now New Yorkers need to rally around Cuomo and the RAC. Because the alternatives are so much worse than that. You wanna wait for Jared to read 25 books and decide how many respirators you get?

Would it be better for New York if they had governor Inslee or governor Newsom? Absolutely. The West Coast is the Best Coast and the Western States Pact is by far the most competently run of the state consortiums. But Cuomo isn't Kemp, and the RAC isn't the Confederacy of Dunces. And the fact that the horseshoe left is even now trying to get their red/brown coalition to bring down Cuomo is pretty much everything you need to know about why those assholes aren't in power and shouldn't be.

-Username17

[Kaelik]

Cuomo literally told people who can't afford food because the state is taking too long to respond to go get a job.

I really hate blue states that elect republican governors like Maryland, Massachusetts, and New York.

Can I get a link to the exact quote?

https://youtu.be/DCatrAS5_YI?t=2779

Cuomo was asked about people who were struggling because they weren't getting UI because the state has delays and he answered that they should get a job as an essential worker.

He wasn't talking about people who just really want to die super badly. He was responding to people asking about UI delays.

is because Kaelik is a barefaced liar who is always always acting in bad faith. Always. No exceptions.

... But Kaelik is never ever giving good faith criticism of Cuomo, because Kaelik is a completely unhinged lunatic who gets his information from the most very only and extremely deranged portions of horseshoe left twitter.

I'll be sure to let Annie Shields from the Nation know that she is an "extremely deranged portion of the horseshoe left."

This is some absolute baby brain shit from someone who has been aggressively lying and hasn't made a good faith post about the democratic politics for months.

We get it Frank, you were repeatedly wrong and lying about the dem primary from the moment you started by saying that Warren was good because she doesn't support Medicare for all to the moment you ended by saying we probably shouldn't believe rape accusers with verification that they've been telling the story for decades. You are mad that someone actually put the work into showing why you are full of shit.

WAAAAAHHHHHHHH! Go cry in a corner and stay out of politics in the states that you don't know anything about which is all of them, but especially NY.

Right now New Yorkers need to rally around Cuomo and the RAC. Because the alternatives are so much worse than that. You wanna wait for Jared to read 25 books and decide how many respirators you get?

And here we get to the actual point.

The only thing Frank cares about is that no one should ever be allowed to criticize right wing democrats from the left in any circumstance. If state democratic senators are mad at Cuomo because he keeps explaining that he's going to cut schools and hospital funding before he lets them raise taxes on billionaires that's BAD and we have to STOP IT AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, because if people are allowed to criticize right wing democrats like Cuomo and try to pressure him into actually helping people then next we will think we are allowed to have standards and push Pelosi from the left, and this CANNOT be allowed.

So no matter how bad and right wing the Democrat in question, Frank will decry 100% of criticism of them as evil and demand we all line up to support their school funding and medicaid cuts to protect billionaires from taxes because the slope cannot be permitted to be greased.

The alternative to letting Cuomo rule as godking of NY isn't that we rely on Jared Kushner, it's that Cuomo has to compromise with the democratic House and Democratic Senate who both have more left wing proposals and solutions than what Cuomo wants.

[deaddmwalking]

America is now facing three calamities: a deadly contagion, a capricious president and a well-funded right-wing infrastructure willing to devalue human life in pursuit of its political agenda. Some very rich men and women are making this medical disaster worse through their reckless bellows, inflaming people to demand that states open now no matter how many lives that costs.

New York Times: Who's Behind the 'Reopen' Protests

[Maj]

K... BC and Washington are good friends. We want to be like them. We love the idea of a Cascadia state that includes the western half of Washington and Oregon (down to about Eugene, further south is like a whatever).

Idaho probably won't join us because they're way conservative. They would probably hang out with Eastern Washington if given the opportunity. The question is when will that opportunity come? Will the desires of the state win out over the individual counties? Because the eastern half of our state is already rebelling, with Franklin County publicly voting to reopen the county for business announce their stupidity by declaring the governor's stay-at-home order unconstitutional.

[RadiantPhoenix]

Kaelik is in all ways and at all times acting in bad faith. Presumably he's talking about This.

[...]

His message specifically to the anti-lockdown protesters was that if they wanted to get to work so badly, they should get a job as an essential worker.

https://youtu.be/DCatrAS5_YI?t=2779

Cuomo was asked about people who were struggling because they weren't getting UI because the state has delays and he answered that they should get a job as an essential worker.

He wasn't talking about people who just really want to die super badly. He was responding to people asking about UI delays.

Here's my rough transcript of Kaelik's link:

Governor Cuomo: *trying to play down the seriousness of UI delays*
Reporter: is there a fundamental right to work when the government can't get me the money when I need it?
Governor Cuomo: You want to go to work? Go take a job as an essential worker.

And a copy-paste of Frank's link:

A reporter asked Gov. Cuomo what he’d say to New Yorkers who want to go back to work because they’re running out of money, to which he replied, “economic hardship doesn’t equal death”

“You want to go to work? Go take a job as an essential worker” he added

My assessment of the video is that the Reporter decided to switch from an angle of questioning where she had the Governor on the facts, and he didn't have an easy answer (UI is too slow and insufficient) to one where she didn't by asking about a 'right to work'.

He pretty obviously doesn't have a good answer he wants to give to the first line of questioning, but his response is also clearly a response to the easy out that the Reporter gave him, and not a response to the other topic he doesn't want to talk about.

So, no, he didn't actually tell people who can't afford food to get a job, he simply didn't answer that question at all.

Cuomo literally told people who can't afford food because the state is taking too long to respond to go get a job.

"Cuomo evades question about starving New Yorkers by answering a different question and then changing the subject."

[Kaelik]

Reporter: is there a fundamental right to work when the government can't get me the money when I need it?
Governor Cuomo: You want to go to work? Go take a job as an essential worker.[/url]

My assessment of the video is that the Reporter decided to switch from an angle of questioning where she had the Governor on the facts, and he didn't have an easy answer (UI is too slow and insufficient) to one where she didn't by asking about a 'right to work'.

He pretty obviously doesn't have a good answer he wants to give to the first line of questioning, but his response is also clearly a response to the easy out that the Reporter gave him, and not a response to the other topic he doesn't want to talk about.

So, no, he didn't actually tell people who can't afford food to get a job, he simply didn't answer that question at all.

Cuomo literally told people who can't afford food because the state is taking too long to respond to go get a job.

"Cuomo evades question about starving New Yorkers by answering a different question and then changing the subject."

"Can't get me the money I when I need it" is clearly a reference to the questions right before it about the UI delays, so his answer to that question was also about UI delays.

But I'm glad we have you here to minutely analyze the slightest wording of a Cuomo conference to fact check reporters on demand in this very important fact check thread where people regularly assert that the United States is going to break up into into multiple nation state pacts.

[The Adventurer's Almanac]

But I'm glad we have you here to minutely analyze the slightest wording of a Cuomo conference on demand in this very important fact check thread where people regularly assert that the United States is going to break up into into multiple nation state pacts.

Stupid theory maps like the one Frank posted are some of my favorite memes when they're tongue-in-cheek. I think his isn't, because there's no mention of an Texan Theocratic Empire gobbling up all their nearby neighbors.

[RadiantPhoenix]

But I'm glad we have you here to minutely analyze the slightest wording of a Cuomo conference on demand in this very important fact check thread where people regularly assert that the United States is going to break up into into multiple nation state pacts.

You're welcome.

[phlapjackage]

Whether a person agrees with RP's assessment or Kaelik's assessment of what Cuomo said, it's very clear that Cuomo is a shitheel with no empathy for those struggling during these insane times. Fuck that guy and anyone who says we should support him.

[erik]

You wanna wait for Jared to read 25 books and decide how many respirators you get?

I'm gonna assume 'books' is slang for facebook pages, since we know that's where he gets his information from.

[hyzmarca]

But I'm glad we have you here to minutely analyze the slightest wording of a Cuomo conference on demand in this very important fact check thread where people regularly assert that the United States is going to break up into into multiple nation state pacts.

Stupid theory maps like the one Frank posted are some of my favorite memes when they're tongue-in-cheek. I think his isn't, because there's no mention of an Texan Theocratic Empire gobbling up all their nearby neighbors.

It's not a theory map. It's an actual map of actual interstate coronavirus cooperative agreements.

[The Adventurer's Almanac]

Well, that's boring.

[Username17]

You wanna wait for Jared to read 25 books and decide how many respirators you get?

I'm gonna assume 'books' is slang for facebook pages, since we know that's where he gets his information from.

The 25 books thing is a reference to the claim that Jared Kushner was going to untangle the Middle East because he had read 25 books. Of course, on pandemics he hasn't even pretended to do that much.

Whether a person agrees with RP's assessment or Kaelik's assessment of what Cuomo said, it's very clear that Cuomo is a shitheel with no empathy for those struggling during these insane times. Fuck that guy and anyone who says we should support him.

This is why you dumb assholes are in the political wilderness right now. Could we do better than Cuomo? Yes. Do we support him in the particular argument that he was having there? Absolutely fuck yes we do!

Kaelik is taking an opportunity to take restatements of out-of-context portions of a Cuomo press interview to attack Cuomo. Which is dumb, because there are real things you can attack Cuomo about. But he's also being a horseshoe leftist because in this case the argument is between Cuomo and the right wing astroturf thugs trying to roll back public health measures! If you don't support him in the fight against these assholes, what fucking use are you?


These are the people Cuomo was arguing with that you are saying we should not support Cuomo against. Please rethink your position, you fucking monster.

-Username17

[Maj]

Two pet cats test positive

Could the fact that cats are catching it be indicative of the disease's origins?

[Username17]

Two pet cats test positive

Could the fact that cats are catching it be indicative of the disease's origins?

Probably not. Viruses very frequently have a number of different species that they are capable of infecting, though often their ability to infect different organisms are not the same. Viruses like Small Pox that literally can only infect humans are pretty rare in the scheme of things. Genetically there isn't that much difference between any two random animals you name, so there's usually some amount of cross reaction between species.

SARS-COV-2 appears genetically similar to viral strains that we know about that infect bats and pangolins, which is where all the weird speculation about wet markets and bat labs comes from. Of course, it's still completely possible that the current novel Coronavirus mutated in a human and that no bats or pangolins were involved in the last fifty fucking years. The idea that it mutated in an animal and then jumped to a human host is complete speculation. It's certainly possible, but there's no particular reason for that to have been the order of events.

The fact that it is physically capable of infecting felines isn't especially surprising and also doesn't make it particularly likely for the viral strain to have originated in cats.

-Username17

[Orca]

Covid-19 has been recorded in humans (of course), domestic cats, domestic dogs, lions and tigers (edit: also apparently ferrets and golden hamsters) that I know of, and very similar viruses which may be its immediate ancestor have been found in bats, pangolins and a less similar one in camels. All this really tells you is that it comes from a mammal (almost certainly not from a snake).

[Kaelik]

This is why you dumb assholes are in the political wilderness right now. Could we do better than Cuomo? Yes. Do we support him in the particular argument that he was having there? Absolutely fuck yes we do!

Kaelik is taking an opportunity to take restatements of out-of-context portions of a Cuomo press interview to attack Cuomo. Which is dumb, because there are real things you can attack Cuomo about. But he's also being a horseshoe leftist because in this case the argument is between Cuomo and the right wing astroturf thugs trying to roll back public health measures! If you don't support him in the fight against these assholes, what fucking use are you?

These are the people Cuomo was arguing with that you are saying we should not support Cuomo against. Please rethink your position, you fucking monster.

Frank is a lying piece of shit, as usual.

If you support Cuomo in that particular argument, you are a piece of shit.

Cuomo is arguing that people who are worried about delayed UI benefits because of an overloaded system should just shut up and leave him alone. He is arguing that because Cuomo does not believe the state has an obligation to spend more money to provide ramped up UI services during a pandemic because tax raises are universally bad.

He wasn't talking to protesters, he was talking to a reporter asking him a question about people worried about UI benefits not coming out.

But more importantly, Frank does not in fact support Cuomo in "in this argument" since Frank's entire claim is that we have to support Cuomo 100% during the pandemic because if you undermine him in any way then actual left democrats in the State legislature will have the power to force compromises from him towards their actual left responses to the pandemic.

But Frank calls democratic state legislatures "Jared Kushner" because that makes it easier for him to criticize them.