The viability of a Castlevania TRPG?

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Post by 00dani »

FrankTrollman wrote:That is, if you want the protagonists to have modern tech and iPhones and shit, then you want 'present day, present time' and if you want the player characters to be unironically using non-magical swords as a primary weapon you want to set things any time before 1836. If you want the players to have recognizably modern weapons, but not have access to cell phones or GPS navigation, you want to set things in the 1970s (or possibly early 80s).
What if you want the protagonists to have cell phones and GPS navigation, but also want them to be unironically using non-magical swords as a primary weapon? Swords (and axes and whips!) are a quintessential part of fighting vampires, especially in this canon.

Although I suppose the answer is just to make the swords/axes/whips magical and therefore able to magically compete with modern mundane weaponry. Duh.
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Post by Dogbert »

Sir Aubergine wrote:@Dogbert The main reason I don't like the LoS series is because there stories either don't factor into or directly contradict the established CV lore.
So you basically didn't like it to be a re-imagining of the franchise. I can respect that. In my case I didn't like Konami retconning Sonya out of the original continuity.
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Post by Dogbert »

00dani wrote:What if you want the protagonists to have cell phones and GPS navigation, but also want them to be unironically using non-magical swords as a primary weapon? Swords (and axes and whips!) are a quintessential part of fighting vampires, especially in this canon.
Quoting City of Heroes: "Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don't."

Also, if we're taking into account all pitched ideas, the tools of some hunter bloodlines range from firearms (Brooks) to outright super-tech (Stantz... yeah, Stantz, fuck Venkman, he was a charlatan, his only redeeming quality was that he was almost immune to fear).
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Post by Sir Aubergine »

00dani wrote:Although I suppose the answer is just to make the swords/axes/whips magical and therefore able to magically compete with modern mundane weaponry. Duh.
Firstly, welcome to the Gaming Den. 'Tis a savage place, but full of knowledge and drollness too. I hope you enjoy your stay.

My homebrew has archaic weapons, subweapons, modern weapons, and even futuristic weapons.

Frank's question of relevancy is very important. Most modern firearms (to say nothing of futuristic weapons, which I will exclude mentioning below for sake of brevity) outclass ye olde arming sword and spear. There's a few ways one might have their cake and eat it too.

Modern weapons are less likely to be magical, and even less likely to be legendary. So the ubiquitous damage resistance to non-magical weapons that monsters have will reduce the modern weapons' effectiveness, absent the expenditure of spells and class abilities from the wielder's allies.

In the case of special enemies like Dracula himself, not just any weapon will do when sending him off to his century of torpor. It needs to be a weapon fated to destroy him, such as the Vampire Killer, or a select handful of marvelously blessed weapons. Riddling him with bullets and cutting off his head will mean he'll be back and ready for another round in fifty years or less and nobody wants that!

This may be an unpopular method for leveling the playing field, but you can curtail the effectiveness of modern weapons. Making the parts and ammunition scarce, the weapons themselves seldom found, expensive or impossible to maintain in the area of operations, the character build requirements to operate them costly, or simply putting a hard cap on how often they can be deployed. The setting I will be using for my game is after a nuclear apocalypse, and so many of the above limit the scope of modern weapons usage, and also reduce the availability of modern niceties like smart phones to boot.

Another option for allowing the deadly delights of modern weapons would to strongly incentivize their use as chaff monster sweepers. Particularly in 5th edition, vast hordes of weakling monsters can be an even greater threat than a small handful of advanced enemies. If you make the clouds of skeletons and flea men and medusa heads and zombies and enraged wildlife of a staggering size, the heroes will be forced to expend their belts of ammo and bundles of dynamite and tanks of napalm cleaning the streets or risk being overrun and ripped to shreds. I think this is preferable to making the boss fights and more sophisticated opposition into padded sumos.

As a final thought for balancing things, you could certainly make it a plot point that monster hunters could use more modern weapons but choose not to. Soma Cruz is the main protagonist in the series to use modern weapons, but he certainly has no reservations about doing whatever it takes to get out of the castle with his love interest safe and sound.

One thing to carefully consider when using modern arms is the potential TPK risk when arming monsters with LMGs and the like. Believe it or not, there is precedence for such things. Monsters have used grenades, combat knives, rpgs, and bolt action rifles rifles to name a few more modern weapons. As Frank correctly states, Dracula always has futuristic tech no matter what time period he rises in. You just don't want to place that sort of devastating firepower in the hands of the vast numerical superiority of team monster. At least not without adjusting the Challenge Level to reflect the greater threat.

@OgreBattle Blackjack eh? That's a wild idea. I like it though. Memorable game mechanics are worth their weight in gold and can get you a splendid play experience. The moment you descend into a slog you know you goofed. Thank you for sharing that interesting idea!
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Post by The Adventurer's Almanac »

"Welcome to the Gaming Den", he says to a guy who's been here for 3 years...
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Post by Sir Aubergine »

The Adventurer's Almanac wrote:"Welcome to the Gaming Den", he says to a guy who's been here for 3 years...
We're both lurkers then. Clearly I was "welcoming" them to active engagement. :tongue:
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Nice save! :p
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Post by brized »

OgreBattle wrote: So I think the 'feel' of real time Castlevania can be carried over in a tabletop game where enemy 'tells' can be learned, this can be a passive effect like D&D's "dodge giant technique", or a choice effect like "DM tells the dragon hunter player the giant dragon skull tower will breath fire next turn, they can run for cover this turn"

---

The X-Wing tabletop game is close to the 'feeling of Castlevania' to me...
You ever play Kingdom Death: Monster? There might be a way to combine its monster actions deck mechanic with the X-Wing stuff. Or just port the monster deck stuff over.
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Post by 00dani »

Sir Aubergine wrote:We're both lurkers then. Clearly I was "welcoming" them to active engagement. :tongue:
Hehe, yeah, I mostly tend to lurk here so. Fair enough!
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Post by Dogbert »

Given how polite Aubergine has been, I choose to believe he didn't welcome TAA in the "Hi, Welcome!" backhanded greeting spirit that was made against the rules some years ago.
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Post by Sir Aubergine »

Dogbert wrote:Given how polite Aubergine has been, I choose to believe he didn't welcome TAA in the "Hi, Welcome!" backhanded greeting spirit that was made against the rules some years ago.
I didn't know that sneering fake welcome messages were even a thing Sir. I admit I was a dummy and legitimately thought the low post count meant 00dani was a new member. I've tried being obdurate in my discourse on this site and other ones, but I just don't have it in me. I leave the verbal vivisections to the rest of the Denners. The cross-section of CV and table top is my favorite thing, and I'm very grateful to be able to read what other people think of the topic and seeing how my betters would make it into a fun experience!

Also, I'm with you on it being a shame for Sonia to be removed from the canon. I think Shanoa is a really swell character, but she shouldn't be the only female protagonist in the series. Looking up her entry on the CV wiki, I didn't know Sonia was robbed of the chance to star in another game, Castlevania: Resurrection. So many broken dreams because of the Dreamcast.
Sonia, Cornell, and Julius are all victims of their games being ripped from the canon or never being made. :sad:[/i]
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Post by JigokuBosatsu »

"Hi welcome" is a specific sarcastic greeting that is deprecated here. "Eat a barrel of cocks" remains acceptable, I believe?
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Post by Whatever »

Hi Welcome as a sarcastic greeting originated with Dungeons and Dragons Online close to ten years ago. It got a bunch of people banned because the moderators there realized they were getting trolled even if they didn't understand how.

I guess someone from DDO made it over here and spread the meme?
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It was Roy.
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Post by Sir Aubergine »

The release date for the third season of the Netflix series is scheduled for March 5th! And we got a new poster for it.
:maj:
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Post by RadiantPhoenix »

00dani wrote:
FrankTrollman wrote:That is, if you want the protagonists to have modern tech and iPhones and shit, then you want 'present day, present time' and if you want the player characters to be unironically using non-magical swords as a primary weapon you want to set things any time before 1836. If you want the players to have recognizably modern weapons, but not have access to cell phones or GPS navigation, you want to set things in the 1970s (or possibly early 80s).
What if you want the protagonists to have cell phones and GPS navigation, but also want them to be unironically using non-magical swords as a primary weapon? Swords (and axes and whips!) are a quintessential part of fighting vampires, especially in this canon.

Although I suppose the answer is just to make the swords/axes/whips magical and therefore able to magically compete with modern mundane weaponry. Duh.
Since the monsters are magic, you could also give the monsters magic that protects them from normal bullets but not normal blades and whips. (Or even makes them more vulnerable to whips)

You could also have the protagonists dumped into the castle unprepared and get stuck with whatever they had in their pockets and purses.

... combine the two and see what knots the players tie their backstories into to justify starting with what they consider the best starting gear.

Why yes, we were all on our way to a SCA meeting from a gun show.
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Post by Dogbert »

RadiantPhoenix wrote:Since the monsters are magic, you could also give the monsters magic that protects them from normal bullets but not normal blades and whips. (Or even makes them more vulnerable to whips)
"I come from a fantasy land where the only weapons are sticks and stones, so I'll use magic to protect my minions from everything but STICKS AND STONES!"

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Post by Dogbert »

If you want melee weapons that much, just introduce melee weapons you would actually use in this day and age: Chainsaws, L4D-like hack n' eyed rocket maces... hell, if you want to go Gargoyles, you can put monofilament blades and even lightsabers on the table.

Don't play in a contemporary setting only to blatantly suck magic's and pointy sticks' dick. Leave that to the hacks at Catalyst, we're better than that here.
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Post by Chamomile »

Chainsaws are heavy, poorly balanced, and in order to kill someone with it, you have to hold the rotating edge against them long enough for it to chew through enough flesh to hit something debilitating. If you take that over a properly balanced sword with a decent edge, you are not very bright. There are no rocket maces in Left 4 Dead so I have no idea what you're talking about with regard to that, nor can I imagine how you would add rockets to a mace in such a way as to make it more effective than a regular mace. So far as melee weapons go, you don't actually get much better than using modern metallurgy to make what is otherwise pretty much just a regular sword.

And there are very obviously plenty of other differences between a modern world and a medieval one which would justify using a modern setting while finding some reason to use medieval weaponry (and magic is definitely the best way to go to achieve that). Having swords obviously does not mean you are not using cars, smart phones, and Netflix, and for that matter doesn't mean you aren't also using guns.

And also Dracula's primary antagonist is the forces of mortal Earth, so unless we invent magical antagonists to oppose him, it makes perfect sense that he would equip his troops primarily to resist whatever weapons mortal Earth is making use of in whatever time period his castle is phasing into next. This would certainly explain why one castle full of monsters like "a pretty big wolf" and "basically just a regular guy except he's a skeleton" poses a significant threat to nations commanding armies hundreds of thousands strong, and once we get particularly late into the time period, with bombers and modern artillery at their command. It makes perfect sense for Dracula to give his minions magic protection that makes them resistant to the weapons his enemies actually have but vulnerable to stuff they discarded centuries or millennia ago, and rely on sheer numbers and/or specialist anti-hero units (probably bosses) to hunt down any Belmonts that come knocking. He doesn't have a great track record against Belmonts, but at least it's hard for Belmonts to win. He shows up with no magical protection against bullets in 1917, 1944, 1999, or 2036 and he's not really going to be anything more than a very weird weekend crisis for whatever country he phases into. Yes, even if he phases into a nation that whose military is distracted by fighting a world war. Absent magical protection, he is at that much of a disadvantage compared to modern militaries.
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Post by Dogbert »

Chamomile wrote:Chainsaws are heavy, poorly balanced, and...
And vampires don't exist so what's your point? (want me to get into the rEaLiZaRmS of longswords that were basically clubs twenty minutes into battle or katana that are only good for 4 kills while we're at it?)

Ash Williams happens to be a thing, and there's a non-zero demographic of people who want a chainsaw hand to kill demons with.

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You can have Castlevania 20XX without sucking meat rapiers on virtue of two things:

1) Castlevania is a beachhead for the Chaos Dimensions with potentially infinite troops that can "go invid" on troops and sweep them with swarm tactics, so demons remain a credible threat.
2) Dracula is the Chaos Dimension's messiah, and is assume to possess whatever mojo he'd need to derail a nuclear bombardment if needed.
3) Demons are no strangers to technology, they just don't care much for it.
4) PCs are assumed to have access to supernatural mojo of their own that renders many military tech redundant anyway so your Castlevania game won't just morph into Operation Darkness.
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Post by Chamomile »

Dogbert wrote:
Chamomile wrote:Chainsaws are heavy, poorly balanced, and...
And vampires don't exist so what's your point?
Okay, so remember when you said this?
If you want melee weapons that much, just introduce melee weapons you would actually use in this day and age:
See, that's what you said in the post immediately preceding mine, and it was about which melee weapons would actually be most useful in the modern age (unless you want to make the even stupider claim that you know better than the person you were addressing what their own aesthetic preferences are), so my post was made as a response to that one. That's how internet forums work. Are you all caught up yet?

EDIT: Also, what it is obviously possible to come up with a set of setting assumptions that make swords unusable against Drac's armies but still allow him to be a threat to the world (the obvious one is just to give his minions magic resilience against all non-magical attacks, and then the protagonists are using whatever set of weapons are available that happen to be able to bypass the magic), 1) despite your sudden pivot to acting like someone's trying to deprive you of the aesthetic you like, this is actually the opposite of true, it's you running up to someone else's project and bitching because it contains swords, demanding they change it to suit your tastes, and 2) your set of proposed setting conceits doesn't even work, because if Dracula has an army sufficiently large to prevent global militaries from punching through his defenses just through sheer numbers, then a couple of dudes with the exact same guns the military is using and then also a couple of even less useful weapons like chainsaws will obviously not have even a ghost of a chance of getting through those same defenses.
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Post by Dogbert »

I don't even care for counting the amount of logical fallacies in that reply. Call me back when you're ready to argue in good faith.
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Post by Chamomile »

Dogbert wrote:I don't even care for counting the amount of logical fallacies in that reply.
Name one.
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Post by hyzmarca »

The easiest way to do it is to just use genre conceits that already exist. A machine gun is a decent weapon, one that certainly gives a normal person a better chance, but it doesn't outclass the guy who can throw his seemingly infinite supply of silver daggers with greater force at a faster pace.

Look at a game like Devil May Cry, where the protagonist uses both guns and melee. Ebony and Ivory are great weapons, but pale in comparison to what a Son of Sparda can do up close with a fully mastered Devil Arm.

So the key isn't magical immunities, it's stats and class abilities. Give the monsters stats high enough that normal people with guns aren't a severe threat, give the PCs enough abilities to make throwing knives or whatever their specialty is better than a gun.
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Post by The Adventurer's Almanac »

hyzmarca wrote:Give the monsters stats high enough that normal people with guns aren't a severe threat, give the PCs enough abilities to make throwing knives or whatever their specialty is better than a gun.
You mean play Scion?
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