Not an OSSR: Space Madness

[Ancient History]

I wanted the mental health circles to be visually distinct from the regular health circles. It's also why the slashes are X vs +.

[deaddmwalking]

Since Mental and Hit Points both have circles, it wouldn't be any clearer which was which.

If they don't both have circles (which seems reasonable) having the first box be completely empty is probably easier.

[JigokuBosatsu]

I just completely blew that detail off. My eventual review will be great once I learn how to read like a big boy!

[virgil]

Space Madness Playtest: Simple Combat Last night was the first time I managed to herd the cats into a large enough group to run a playtest fight, but only technically. One of them still needed to pick their equipment package and specialization, and after an hour and a half of waiting for him to finish reading/deliberating, I dumped him without ceremony and ran a fight scene with the other two players. So, it was two players vs a trio of Martian Dragons.

Venusian Engineer of the Torchmen (Forensics specialty)[*]Certs: Efficient (Orgone), Multitask[*]Equipment: Forensics Kit, Socket (level 1), Xenostomach

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Lunar Engineer of the Solar Patrol (Int/Per specialty)[*]Certs: Confident (Engineering), Efficient (Vril)[*]Equipment: Artificial Eyes (forgot notes for what were put in them), Engineering Kit, Polarized Cape

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Martian Dragon (Combatives 8) When humanity began sending settlers to the dunes of Mars, they brought with them horned lizards to assist with the paper wasps inadvertently brought with them. What they didn't expect was for a species of burrowing insect to be heavily present in Mars, especially near the Meridiani Planum, to which the lizard has feasted upon without competition. After a number of generations, the lack of predators and rich food for their diet has created what is colloquially known as Martian Dragons, a territorial & aggressive fifty pound lizard.[*]Charisma 3 (Decept 4, Intim 4)[*]Courage 4 (Combatives 4, Screen 3, Survival 4)[*]Intellect 4[*]Perception 4 (Navigation 4)[*]Tags: Mars Lore[*]Certs: Native Martian[*]Health Circles: ⊙⊙⊙⊙[*]Mental Health Circles: ⊚⊚⊚⊚[*]Abilities: Animal, Marsborn

Character creation has been roundly considered a positive in design. The biggest issue was that of equipment: not only does the item cap encourage them to always pick a Cert over a piece of gear during creation, there's a major disincentive with buying more gear in future sessions, because then you're looking at CLP literally going into the trash by way of the old gear being displaced. No other place in the CLP schema has to worry about spent points being permanently lost. Currently, we are considering a codified form of the Batcave in response to this hurdle:

Storage Trunk Excess equipment discarded during character creation goes into the Ranger's personal locker at Mission Control. At the start of any new mission, before leaving Mission Control, the Space Ranger can select from the items in their storage trunk, and place them into their available equipment slots. Any future equipment bought with CLP in the line of duty goes into this same storage trunk after each mission.

Everyone commented on how popular the Engineer background was (3 out of 5 player approved); but the sample size is tiny and the practical outcome still resulted in a wide array of capabilities between the engineers. The Loonie statted above was the only one of the three that could be described as good at the engineering skill (the other two were roughly competent, at best). Technically, there was also verisimilitude confusion at the ease of switching out augmentations. Out of the five people I've talked to that brought up confusion for how an artificial eye takes up as much space as a cat, all of them (one being a veteran himself) instantly accepted it when I reminded them at Space Rangers are military personnel.

The actual scenario was simple. The two Rangers were walking through a box canyon in Mars, only to be ambushed by two flanking dragons who had burrowed themselves under the soil for warmth at point blank range (stepped on a tail), and a third about 3m away. By the end of the encounter, all three dragons were killed/defeated, and both Rangers had taken 3 damage.

The initiative system made the whole thing slow to a crawl. Some of it was everyone involved being used to 3E's system, but for a system that relies entirely on arbitrary DM adjudication, it painfully needs more guidelines or even a switch to a concrete decision process. Even outside of that, how declaration and resolution is processed was a vital-yet-unanswered question. Are declarations made in secret, or are they openly stated? If the latter, order of operations is a *vital* consideration that requires codification.

Lesser questions were also raised. [*]How long does Predict last? If only for that specific round rather than until your next turn, it's *only* something you can use if you have initiative. What are the targeting restrictions - can you use it as a debuff against a sniper attacking your buddy?[*]Do net hits on a Blade of Light attack add to its damage? This is an important distinction for a weapon that deals wounds.[*]Can the Detonate wand function target part of the ground, to ensure that you get a shrapnel-filled explosion[*]What value is there in a Level 1 Socket if you don't have any other gear that would presumably take up their own equipment slots? Hard to look at data if you're unable to read, listen, or watch any of it.

[Ancient History]

The initiative system made the whole thing slow to a crawl. Some of it was everyone involved being used to 3E's system, but for a system that relies entirely on arbitrary DM adjudication, it painfully needs more guidelines or even a switch to a concrete decision process. Even outside of that, how declaration and resolution is processed was a vital-yet-unanswered question. Are declarations made in secret, or are they openly stated? If the latter, order of operations is a *vital* consideration that requires codification.

Order of operations is precisely what I was trying to avoid, but it's hard to do that without going entirely magic tea party. The reason why pretty much every RPG game goes with some form of turn order is just because a linear sequence of events is a lot easier to process, I think, realism be damned.

How long does Predict last?

It is an action that takes effect during that round.

If only for that specific round rather than until your next turn, it's *only* something you can use if you have initiative.

...why? Everybody declares actions before they resolve. Initiative gives you a little boost in combat. It doesn't determine who goes first.

What are the targeting restrictions - can you use it as a debuff against a sniper attacking your buddy?

Didn't specify any, so there are none.

Do net hits on a Blade of Light attack add to its damage? This is an important distinction for a weapon that deals wounds.

That would be a good errata addendum. My gut instinct is "no" because it's really a wand function.

Can the Detonate wand function target part of the ground, to ensure that you get a shrapnel-filled explosion

Sure.

What value is there in a Level 1 Socket if you don't have any other gear that would presumably take up their own equipment slots? Hard to look at data if you're unable to read, listen, or watch any of it.

Something I should probably have expanded on. Level 1 socket would mostly be for browsing a terminal network - plugging in and doing things by thinking it instead of manually typing.

[virgil]

Order of operations has to be resolved when positioning matters. An example from the first round of the playtest:[*]Loonie: I declare that I step back 2m (AP 2), draw my wand (AP 0), and activate Open Gate (AP 3)[*]Martial Dragon, adjacent to Loonie: I declare that I attack (AP 4), and that's it, because he's point blank for melee.
Order of operations is vital here - either the dragon goes first and gets to attack, or the Loonie backpedals out of reach and the dragon couldn't attack even if it revised its declaration and spent its 1 remaining AP to move towards the Loonie. If this is a situation of the ambushing dragon(s) having to spend their initiative to ensure they get priority in situations where actions compete with each other, then initiative adjudication is still something that needs either more guidelines or more concrete standards.

...why? Everybody declares actions before they resolve. Initiative gives you a little boost in combat. It doesn't determine who goes first.

You're not going to use Predict on someone who is only using their AP for movement, and unless declarations are made in secret, one person is going to know before the other and declare accordingly. Even for resolution, do Predicts happen before attacks? What happens when two people Predict & Shoot each other?

[Ancient History]

Order of operations has to be resolved when positioning matters

You're thinking in turn-based tactical positioning mode. This is less like a miniatures game on a hex board. In a turn-by-turn system, the players react to each other. Those who hit first can kill some characters before they even get a chance to act. But Space Madness! ditches the physical attributes that a lot of initiative-based systems are based on - and also a lot of the thinking.

Yes, it puts a lot of onus on the gamemaster to weave the narrative of combat - that's by design. Instead of waiting to see what other people have done, you make your plans and declare your actions and then events happen. It's a little more cinematic, and yes not everything is going to work out like you planned/hoped.

Otherwise, you might as well have a generic initiative system, with all the crap that goes with it.

You're not going to use Predict on someone who is only using their AP for movement, and unless declarations are made in secret, one person is going to know before the other and declare accordingly.

There is a rule in there about changing your declaration (with a modest penalty).

Even for resolution, do Predicts happen before attacks?

Depends on the exact situation, although I would generally say before.

What happens when two people Predict & Shoot each other?

[JigokuBosatsu]

Could predict and shoot function like some weird iaido duel where the swords never get drawn and one person knows he just lost?

[Ancient History]

Theoretically. I didn't code anything specific into the ruleset for that kind of thing.

[virgil]

You're thinking in turn-based tactical positioning mode.

But events can't just happen. One person dives for cover, another shoots. There's no need here to question whether anyone was reacting. Either that shot is dealing with cover or it's not, which is 100% an order of operations question. And if you want declarations to be made without people reacting, then yes, declarations are made in secret, then revealed; whether you do it in your head and follow the honour system, or you write it down before revealing, or whatever.

I'm not against this, per se. But this is significant & different enough that I'm going to going to have to add additional text elaborating the nuance of it, including additional advice/guidelines for the likely huge majority of people not at all used to such.

[Ancient History]

Either that shot is dealing with cover or it's not, which is 100% an order of operations question

And that is not something the players control. They have to wait to see if they make it to cover in time. It's closer to a cutscene than than something you can rigorously plan out with mathematical precision. It puts more burden for the work on the gamemaster, but it also gets players out of the mindset of "waiting their turn" to act.

[pragma]

If you're trying to get players out of the mindset of thinking about turn order, then it might be wise to use a different word than 'initiative' to indicate how a fight is going. Maybe 'momentum' would get the job done.

I agree with Virgil that a sidebar addressed at people coming from D&D, Shadowrun or basically any other RPG would be welcome. The text could be as simple as explaining that timing is a bit faster and looser in Space Madness! than they're used to.

However, I think that in practice GMs running Space Madness! will kind of default to team initiative, where one team takes all their actions and then the other team does so. I think that's OK, I actually really like team initiative as a simplification. You may want to write that into the sidebar explicitly either to condone or condemn it.

Nitpicky aside: Also, you're missing a 'v' in the word 'have' at the end of the draw action.

[Usamimi]

They have to wait to see if they make it to cover in time. It's closer to a cutscene than than something you can rigorously plan out with mathematical precision.

Please provide an example. If A declares that they are shooting at B, and B declares that they are diving into cover, how is this sequence of events resolved?

[Ancient History]

I'm pretty sure I give exactly that case in the combat example in Space Madness!

[Usamimi]

I'm pretty sure I give exactly that case in the combat example in Space Madness!

Confirmation: Priority goes to the party with initiative, who is considered to have acted first, unless the MC decides otherwise based on circumstances (such as visibility)?

Logical solution.

[Trill]

What happens if there are more than two parties involved in the combat, and two characters who both have initiative fight each other?
Does one of them lose the Initiative?
Coin toss?
Sub-Initiative?

[Ancient History]

What happens if there are more than two parties involved in the combat, and two characters who both have initiative fight each other?

Having initiative in Space Madness! is not like having the higher initiative value in Dungeons & Dragons or Shadowrun. It has nothing to do with who goes first. It's a kind of token you can expend to gain a one-shot bonus during that combat round.

The players declare their actions and then the gamemaster decides how it plays out.

[DrPraetor]

That's counter-intuitive. Before Usamimi and I join forces to continue this review - why specifically did you change the combat system in After Sundown in that way?

Is it part of a reduced emphasis on combat, do you feel that it plays more smoothly this way at the table, or...?

In general, I would suggest calling the thing you call "initiative" to be "advantage" or something, in order to avoid confusion.

When I read space-madness - and I may not be alone in this, on this forum, but it wouldn't generalize elsewhere - I'm asssuming that things are as in After Sundown except where explicitly stated.

[Usamimi]

What happens if there are more than two parties involved in the combat, and two characters who both have initiative fight each other?

Having initiative in Space Madness! is not like having the higher initiative value in Dungeons & Dragons or Shadowrun. It has nothing to do with who goes first. It's a kind of token you can expend to gain a one-shot bonus during that combat round.

The players declare their actions and then the gamemaster decides how it plays out.

The example combat mentions Gabby spending initiative to outdraw Red Asme. This function is not mentioned under the initiative description. Is the GM supposed to use initiative to determine order of operations?

EDIT: The text in question:

Combat Round 1

The gamemaster determines that initiative goes to Gabby, since she is starting the encounter. The characters are about four meters apart.

Declare Actions: Gabby’s player announces she will draw her wand (Draw action) and use the Level 3 Vril function Break Gate (Use Wand action) on Red Asme’s wand, and orders her to surrender (Talk). The gamemaster declares Red also draws both of her wands (Draw), fires a disruptor beam at the Ranger with the wand in her right hand (Shoot), and uses her remaining action point to move to cover behind one of the tables (Move, 2 meters).

        Resolve Actions: As Gabby spent the initiative, she out-draws Red. Break Gate on a Rating 3 Space Pirate Special is a Visualization (3) Test—Gabby’s player spends 3 sagans and rolls 16 dice (Perception 8 + Visualization 4 + 2 bonus dice for being a member of the Solar Patrol), scoring four hits, shutting the wand down for 8 rounds—Red Asme curses as she raises one of her wands to shoot, but it clicks ineffectively. Quickly, the Space Pirate ducks behind a table for cover.

Emphasis mine.

END EDIT

In general, I would suggest calling the thing you call "initiative" to be "advantage" or something, in order to avoid confusion.

[Ancient History]

That's counter-intuitive. Before Usamimi and I join forces to continue this review - why specifically did you change the combat system in After Sundown in that way?

I was not basing Space Madness! on After Sundown in any way, shape, or form. Honestly, I was basing SM on a highly streamlined version of Shadowrun 4th edition.

When I read space-madness - and I may not be alone in this, on this forum, but it wouldn't generalize elsewhere - I'm asssuming that things are as in After Sundown except where explicitly stated.

Yeah, that would be an erroneous assumption on your part.

[Usamimi]

Is Cthulhu present on Earth? Is his presence relevant?

[Usamimi]

When this review is finished, will I be able to choose an OSSR separately from DrPraetor?

[Ancient History]

I think that's a major "if" rather than "when" at this point.

[Usamimi]

Combat

Combat in Space Madness uses an action point system. Each character has 5 action points to spend, with a different cost for each activity. Each round, the MC determines which characters have the initiative, either through speed of attack, preparedness, or offensive performance. Initiative can be expended to gain an automatic hit on a roll, and disappears if unused.

The MC may also use initiative to determine which characters act first, in the case of a conflict.

Notably, shooting while maintaining a hold is impossible, as doing both requires more than five action points.

There is a sidebar detailing called shots and combat in which one participant cannot be damaged, as well as surrendering and fighting to the death.

The movement table is in this chapter. Movement speeds are identical for every character. I understand that this is a simplification, but I dislike it.

In the example combat, both participants' have all of their health circles filled, but neither falls unconscious.

If all of a character’s health circles are filled (by any combination of ⊘ and ⊗), they fall unconscious, and remain unconscious until they have at least one unmarked health circle (⊙). If all of a character’s health circles are filled by wounds (i.e. ⊗⊗⊗⊗⊗⊗⊗⊗), they die.

Overall, I consider the chapter well written. The combat example demonstrates how to use the initiative mechanic and includes sidebars detailing special cases.

Next: Travel.

[DrPraetor]

I've been super-negligent in contributing review material (work has been crazy), but even if it ends up being a collaboration, I would let Usamimi pick.

P.S. if you make him do World of Darkness: Gypsies, I bet I can get Frank to team up on it.

Cheaper, locally produced mild beers were especially prized by Roma (mild Czech Budweiser) as well as wine in cartons and traditional liquors (especially fake vodka-style liquors).

I'm saying the drink of choice will be "fake vodka-style liquors", if I can figure out what those are.