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CaptainComics
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Post by CaptainComics »

Josh_Kablack wrote:So with all the marketing around Glass, I want to remind folks that Unbreakable had a character who didn't know what his weightlifting limits were, despite that character having previously played football competetively at the college level in the US of A.
Now, I've never been accused of being athletic, so maybe this is something the coach forces you to learn or something, but the specific way they dealt with that in the movie seemed fairly convincing to me. In the weightlifting scene, it looked like Bruce Willis's level of effort was approaching what would normally be signs you were hitting your limit - but then adding more on top of that didn't change the level of effort required. So he'd be lifting like 150 lbs or something (again, not an athlete, so I don't know what a college football player can be expected to lift) and feel like he couldn't do any more weight or reps, but then you could put another 150 lbs on, and if you didn't tell him, he'd do the exact same thing and not notice much difference, if any at all. He thought he'd reached his limits, but it turns out there was a long tail to his performance.
Do football players have to exert to failure or something like that when they're training, which would guarantee that they'd just keep adding weight until he absolutely couldn't do a single rep or, alternately, got the attention of either Charles Xavier or S.H.I.E.L.D.?
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Post by Whipstitch »

Josh_Kablack wrote:So with all the marketing around Glass, I want to remind folks that Unbreakable had a character who didn't know what his weightlifting limits were, despite that character having previously played football competetively at the college level in the US of A.

It's not that insane. It wasn't until '69 that even a single NCAA football program had a full-time strength and conditioning coach and the idea that players could be muscle-bound persisted in many schools until at least the late '70s when the desire to tell recruits and reporters about how gosh darn clever your training methods are completely overwhelmed the desire to play coy with your competitive advantages.

Meanwhile, I haven't seen the movie in ages but Bruce Willis was 45 when that movie came out in 2000 and they don't take particular pains to make him come across as younger. So if you generously assume he was supposed to be in his mid-30s we're still taking about someone who retired from the sport in the early '90s at the absolute latest, almost certainly earlier given the age of his son and leaving football to save his relationship plot thread. And while somewhat unusual even back then there were still very successful pro running backs like Herschel Walker who were known for building their workout routines around plyometrics and cross training to the virtual exclusion of weight training. Even today when to-failure training has fully entered the hallowed grounds of bro science there are still plenty of young athletes who go their own way in terms of training regimen and programs sometimes elect to live with them largely doing their own thing so long as they can perform in practices and on the field. It's especially prevalent at the high school level where there's been a trend towards top prospects being hooked up with personal trainers early rather than using freely available high school training sessions.
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Post by erik »

When I did leg presses in highschool as a 100lb track runner I never found my limit. The machine couldn’t hold more than 500lbs and either of my legs could pump it alone no problema. It was not really a helpful exercise for running at all and made my thighs oversized, but I suppose I still woulda kept putting on more weight just out of curiosity if the machine woulda let me.
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Post by phlapjackage »

Aquaman movie...holy shit it was terrible. Jason Momoa might be a nice guy irl but he can't act on screen. Willem Defoe looks terrible and kept bringing me out of the movie (wtf was he cast?). Black Manta was the dumbest of dumb subplots. Aquaman recovers excalibur not because he does something worthy, but just because of who he was born as. Lame. Every common superhero plot point seems like it was checked off of a checklist, given broad brush strokes but no actual depth. Backstory? Check. Training montage? Check. First discovers powers as a kid? Check. Intro to the character as they save some people? Check. And on and on.

Am I just getting old? All these movies suck.
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Post by erik »

I think we are getting old. I see a trailer and I'm like, I already know exactly what beats this movie is gonna have.

I get excited now by stuff that takes me by surprise. Things that come to mind are: Sorry To Bother You. Spiderman: Enter the Spiderverse. Guardians of the Galaxy (only fairly recent, but I couldn't think of a more recent 3rd).
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Post by Username17 »

phlapjackage wrote:Aquaman movie...holy shit it was terrible. Jason Momoa might be a nice guy irl but he can't act on screen. Willem Defoe looks terrible and kept bringing me out of the movie (wtf was he cast?). Black Manta was the dumbest of dumb subplots. Aquaman recovers excalibur not because he does something worthy, but just because of who he was born as. Lame. Every common superhero plot point seems like it was checked off of a checklist, given broad brush strokes but no actual depth. Backstory? Check. Training montage? Check. First discovers powers as a kid? Check. Intro to the character as they save some people? Check. And on and on.

Am I just getting old? All these movies suck.
I thought Aquaman was super fun. I really enjoyed the fact that they just went whole hog and had the Brine Kingdom of Crab People because "fuck it, it's a comic for twelve year olds, and we're turning the silly dial up to eleven."

The Excalibur thing in particular seems like a really bizarre complaint. He straight up tells Julie Andrews that he isn't worthy, and the act of talking to the Karathen completely blows her away and brings her on board. I mean, I can accept that "being humble enough to admit and understand that you aren't worthy makes you worthy" is only slightly less cliché than "chosen ones are worthy by default" but they did legitimately go for the former and you're complaining about the latter.
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Post by phlapjackage »

erik wrote:Things that come to mind are: Sorry To Bother You. Spiderman: Enter the Spiderverse. Guardians of the Galaxy (only fairly recent, but I couldn't think of a more recent 3rd).
Thanks for the recommendations, I need to see the first 2 you mentioned now...
FrankTrollman wrote: I thought Aquaman was super fun. I really enjoyed the fact that they just went whole hog and had the Brine Kingdom of Crab People because "fuck it, it's a comic for twelve year olds, and we're turning the silly dial up to eleven."
I didn't think it was self-aware enough to allow the "fuck it, let's go crazy" idea to stick. And I also don't think it's ok to allow bad filmmaking/story by using the excuse that it's "just for kids". That's being used to defend shit like the latest slew of SW movies. There's ways to make movies that are silly and fun and good stories and action packed and all that based on "kids stories", but Aquaman wasn't it imo. I've heard Into The Spiderverse might fit that bill tho...
FrankTrollman wrote: The Excalibur thing in particular seems like a really bizarre complaint. He straight up tells Julie Andrews that he isn't worthy, and the act of talking to the Karathen completely blows her away and brings her on board. I mean, I can accept that "being humble enough to admit and understand that you aren't worthy makes you worthy" is only slightly less cliché than "chosen ones are worthy by default" but they did legitimately go for the former and you're complaining about the latter.
I had the understanding that it wasn't what he said to her, it was just that he could ACTUALLY talk to her...idk, I could have misunderstood that section of the movie. She never mentions what he says, only that she hasn't been able to talk to people for thousands of years. His humble about-face turn didn't seem genuinely earned either. What parts of the story happened that caused his change of heart?

ps. holy shit, that was Julie Andrews!?!?
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Post by Username17 »

phlapjackage wrote:What parts of the story happened that caused his change of heart?
What change of heart? He starts the movie pissed at Atlantis for killing his mother and literally never even wants to be king until it is presented to him as a way to get back at Oceanmaster.
Mera: It’s not a myth. With the sacred trident, people will listen to you. You can then claim your birthright and dethrone Orm.
Arthur: My birthright? It died with my mother. But I’ll promise you this, if Orm attacks, I’ll treat him the same way your people treated her, with no mercy.
Other people tell him that he is worthy to be king of Atlantis, and he doesn't actually agree with that assessment at any point of the movie. Even after reclaiming the sacred trident, even after besting Orm and forcing him to yield the throne, he still doesn't claim himself to be worthy to be king.
King Orm: Finish it.
Arthur: Yield the throne.
King Orm: Mercy is not our way.
Arthur: Maybe you haven’t noticed, brother, but I’m not one of you.
Arthur: So what do I do now?
Mera: Be their king.
It's just a weird complaint is all. The movie has a rambling Dungeons & Dragons plot, a rather hamfisted moralization of the value of humility and environmental consciousness, and a goofy cast that includes underground dinosaurs and a kingdom of crab people. But it genuinely does not at any point go to the well of the chosen hero acknowledging his chosen one status and getting a powerup because of it.
Karathen: You thought yourself worthy? You thought yourself a king? You dishonour this place with your presence.
Arthur: You’re right. I am a half breed mongrel. But I did not come here because I thought I was worthy. I know I’m not.
Karathen: You understand me.
Arthur: I do.
Karathen: No mortal has conversed with me since King Atlan. Who are you?
Arthur: I’m nobody. I came because I have no choice. I came to save my home, and the people that I love. I came because the Trident is our only hope. And if that’s not good enough, then screw you.
That scene was totally awesome. But the Karathen does not let him grab the trident because he's the rightful king, he specifically rejects that narrative when talking to the Karathen. She does not even know he is the rightful king, because he rejects the idea hard enough that he doesn't tell her. Just as he rejects it before and after talking to the Karathen. He doesn't acknowledge that he is a king until the voiceover text at the end of the movie.
My father was a lighthouse keeper. My mother was a queen. They were never meant to meet, but their love saved the world. They made me what I am. A son of the land, a king of the seas. I am the protector of the deep. I am Aquaman.
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Post by phlapjackage »

Karathen: You understand me.
Arthur: I do.
Karathen: No mortal has conversed with me since King Atlan. Who are you?
I took this to mean that noone COULD converse with her, but because ARTHUR was able to since he's so special by dint of birth, she let him be and he was able to take the trident. Not sure why I'm perfectly willing to accept that kind of trope in some movies (ANH) and not this one apparently...

By change of heart, I mean he's kind of shown as a kinda-clueless-self-absorbed-not-at-all-introspective kind of character ("hurry up I don't want to miss happy hour!" while rescuing people from death), and so his sudden humility and introspection didn't feel earned to me at that point, it just seemed convenient for the plot.
Last edited by phlapjackage on Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Whipstitch »

phlapjackage wrote:
By change of heart, I mean he's kind of shown as a kinda-clueless-self-absorbed-not-at-all-introspective kind of character ("hurry up I don't want to miss happy hour!" while rescuing people from death), and so his sudden humility and introspection didn't feel earned to me at that point, it just seemed convenient for the plot.
I can't decide if you're oversensitive to cliches now or blind to them and it's weirding me out. It's 2019 and unless you've been thrown in the quaint pile with Superman, Cap and Thor it's considered gauche to congratulate citizens on being successfully rescued before you've ever even finished your origin story.
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Post by phlapjackage »

Whipstitch wrote:I can't decide if you're oversensitive to cliches now or blind to them and it's weirding me out. It's 2019 and unless you've been thrown in the quaint pile with Superman, Cap and Thor it's considered gauche to congratulate citizens on being successfully rescued before you've ever even finished your origin story.
<little girl says "why not both?" image>

And I'm not really sure what you're saying here?
Last edited by phlapjackage on Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Whipstitch »

What I'm saying is that moviegoers live in a post Taxi Driver world full of anti-heroes and characters can easily read as famewhoring weirdos when mishandled. So in Aquaman they establish right away that no matter what his other faults may be he'll do the decent thing and doesn't have a need for power or acclaim built into his self-image, just as it isn't for Wolverine or Cincinnatus. Basically, I completely understand the complaint that the movie is rote but I think the sense of familiarity and super hero fatigue often causes people to imagine structural flaws that aren't really there because if anything the Aquaman character is consistent to a fault. The movie actually does know where it's going, it's just a matter of whether it convinces people to come along for the ride or not.
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Post by phlapjackage »

Whipstitch wrote:What I'm saying is that moviegoers live in a post Taxi Driver world full of anti-heroes and characters can easily read as famewhoring weirdos when mishandled. So in Aquaman they establish right away that no matter what his other faults may be he'll do the decent thing and doesn't have a need for power or acclaim built into his self-image, just as it isn't for Wolverine or Cincinnatus. Basically, I completely understand the complaint that the movie is rote but I think the sense of familiarity and super hero fatigue often causes people to imagine structural flaws that aren't really there because if anything the Aquaman character is consistent to a fault. The movie actually does know where it's going, it's just a matter of whether it convinces people to come along for the ride or not.
I readily agree part of my sense of Aquaman could be attributed to superhero fatigue. My take-away from the "hurry up or I'll miss happy hour" line was to reinforce the idea that the character was a well-meaning buffoon. Same when he sniffs his armpit or other things I can't remember off the top of my head. But this was not a character who was given to deep thoughts certainly. So when he uses the power of "introspection and humility" to best the (Karathen?), it didn't seem consistent. He could've said some line about getting drunk with her, or finding her voice sexy, or something similar, and that would've felt more consistent.
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Post by Hiram McDaniels »

erik wrote:Things that come to mind are: Sorry To Bother You. Spiderman: Enter the Spiderverse. Guardians of the Galaxy (only fairly recent, but I couldn't think of a more recent 3rd).
I loved Sorry to Bother You. It was like if Bamboozled had a baby with Repo Man.
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Post by K »

William Dafoe was hired because he looks like a hagfish.
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Post by Pseudo Stupidity »

Hiram McDaniels wrote: I loved Sorry to Bother You. It was like if Bamboozled had a baby with Repo Man.
Sorry to Bother You is fucking brilliant and hilarious. I can't recommend it enough, and every mention of it makes me beam. It is a masterpiece, right down to the horse cock.
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Post by Thaluikhain »

Just got round to seeing Alien Covenant.

Goddamnit. :(
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Post by Shrapnel »

SO they made a Masterpiece Megatron toy (Masterpiece is a really high-end toyline) and since Megatron in G1 was a GUN (a Walther P-38, to be exact - the one from Man from U.N.C.L.E., specifically), the Masterpiece toy does the same.

Since America SUCKS, I can't get it without a STUPID FUCKING ORANGE SAFETY PLUG OVER THE FUCKING GUN BARREL FUCK.

Which can be removed, but they ask you not to do it, so you probably shouldn't.

But, it's still better than Australia!
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Post by Darth Rabbitt »

Shrapnel wrote:Which can be removed, but they ask you not to do it, so you probably shouldn't.
Then...just remove it? Unless you intend to invite toy safety regulators over to your house no one will be the wiser.
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Post by Whipstitch »

Darth Rabbitt wrote:
Shrapnel wrote:Which can be removed, but they ask you not to do it, so you probably shouldn't.
Then...just remove it? Unless you intend to invite toy safety regulators over to your house no one will be the wiser.
Exactly. This is America! We only care insofar that we get to open fire now if you point it at us.
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Post by Maj »

We get to open fire if you point it at us whether or not the gun has an orange tip on it.
Kevin Boontjer, Retired Police Sergeant wrote:Let's say that the gun did have the orange tip on it. You're running, your vision is bouncing, you can't keep normal vision as you're running, and you're trying to, again, assess a hundred different pieces of information as you're running," Boontjer explained. "And when we train these officers for these lethal force situations, we can't teach them to look at something so microscopic as an orange dot that is bouncing around, that could be facing away from them as the suspect is running away.
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Maj wrote:We get to open fire if you point it at us whether or not the gun has an orange tip on it.
Kevin Boontjer, Retired Police Sergeant wrote:Let's say that the gun did have the orange tip on it. You're running, your vision is bouncing, you can't keep normal vision as you're running, and you're trying to, again, assess a hundred different pieces of information as you're running," Boontjer explained. "And when we train these officers for these lethal force situations, we can't teach them to look at something so microscopic as an orange dot that is bouncing around, that could be facing away from them as the suspect is running away.
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Post by Shrapnel »

Darth Rabbitt wrote:
Shrapnel wrote:Which can be removed, but they ask you not to do it, so you probably shouldn't.
Then...just remove it? Unless you intend to invite toy safety regulators over to your house no one will be the wiser.
Did you not see the part where I said that they said you shouldn't do it? DO UNENFORCEABLE LEGAL INSTRUCTIONS HAVE NO WEIGHT IN THIS COUNTRY ANYMORE?!?
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Post by Whipstitch »

I said "we" because I was talking about us losers. Cops always get to shoot, obvs.
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Post by Surgo »

I finally caught up on Seven Deadly Sins (to the latest manga chapter) now that the second anime season has come out and man...it has really squandered its potential. No individual item I can really put my finger on, just that the quality is overall way down from the first anime season. It's just a generically boring battle-all-the-time manga.
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