Your argument is stupid
and inconsistent. You claim Anakin is a 'fully trained Jedi' when the movies make it clear that
he is not fully trained. He is still an apprentice.
You also claim that the movies 'establish that training is required to consciously use mind powers' when they do not. The absence of evidence to the contrary does not
by itself indicate that precedence was set
in part because the sample size is too small.
In
two cases one person used force powers after some training and one person used force powers without some training. The PRECEDENT is that understanding of force powers is a highly individualized process - the force 'chooses' people it likes in some manner and they 'express' it in different ways.
Chamomile wrote:Do I have to explain to you why scenes from the Last Jedi cannot reasonably be expected to have any impact upon the reception of a scene from the Force Awakens?"
Yeah, you kind of do. You've brought up narrative structure, so I think it is fair that something that is alluded to could be CONFIRMED in a subsequent reference. We would refer to the
initial indication as
foreshadowing. Once the thing that is foreshadowed is revealed, it should change your understanding of what came prior.
For example, when Vader says, "No, I am your father", that scene from Episode II definitely changes your understanding of the scene from Episode I where Obi Wan says, "He betrayed and murdered your father. Now the Jedi are all but extinct. Vader was seduced by the dark side of the Force."
When a work of fiction indicates that something works
this way, and then presents something that
doesn't work that way,
that's also how fiction works. It's only a problem when the fiction makes it clear that it
only works one way. For example, in
Avatar: The Last Airbender, it's established that Bender's
move to activate their powers. It is
later revealed that you can bend with just your face or no movement at all if you are particularly focused. Reasonable people, rather than INSISTING that it destroys the setting by destroying precedent instead accept that the settings rules were not all revealed initially.
Rey exhibiting powers that you don't think are clearly shown to be possible can be rebutted in two ways.
1) Actually, people have shown similar powers in the small number of examples we have seen, so it doesn't seem that exceptional. A number of people have used this argument compellingly, but whatever, you refuse to agree by limiting the only example to be used to Anakin and then insisting that he is 'fully trained' even when he is clearly not.
2) The setting didn't make clear the rules that you feel are being rebutted, and therefore you should treat the new example as a simple evolution of the setting.
Rey exhibiting powers is fully explained BOTH WAYS. If it was exceptional (it isn't), it's just natural evolution, justified both because 'the Force Awakened' and one can be 'strong in the force' without training.
This is very different from the Holdo Maneuver which has someone doing something that a bunch of people WANTED to do, but couldn't and there is nothing explaining that the ship has an alternative drive or other 'super-weapon' that makes a FTL impact weapon feasible and actually suddenly makes the setting WORSE if people don't use it. The Holdo Maneuver is the 'Time Turner' from Harry Potter - the protagonists are stupid for never using it again.
