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I want to kick ass as a wizard with FATE Core.

 
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Lago PARANOIA
Invincible Overlord


Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 10171

PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:15 am    Post subject: I want to kick ass as a wizard with FATE Core. Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Okay, so I'm playing a superhero game soon. And I want to make one of a technomage, a Naruto-style wizard, or a Dr. Strange-style wizard. I want to make sure so that my wizard crushes the opposition (within the boundaries of FATE) as much as possible by picking generically useful aspects and stunts.

I also don't mind picking up other supplements. Bonus points if the supplement will actually let me put additional tokens on the board. However, I would like the supplement to be fairly mainstream (so Spirit of the Century is fine) and I would like to limit the number of additional supplements.

I prefer builds that lean towards Glass Cannon, especially if the 'Cannon' part makes up for the 'Glass' part (like wizards using Emergency Force Sphere and Mirror Image).
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Josh Kablack wrote:
Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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erik
King


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 5010

PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Isn't FATE a game where you want to pick generically useful traits that you can apply together as often as possible?

My dick goes limp at the prospect of min-maxing such a system. If you succeed you still lose.
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Lago PARANOIA
Invincible Overlord


Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 10171

PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yes, but just going through the FATE Core book I can see that some stunts are more useful than others even outside the context of the actual game.

I know that this is going to involve some anecdotal experience in addition to some theorycraft; I just want to know about particularly interesting stunts, ways to use your best skill extra often and extra hard, how to quickly neuter opposition within the action economy, how good stunts that let you take actions out of turn like the Riposte stunt of Fight, etc.
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Josh Kablack wrote:
Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.


Last edited by Lago PARANOIA on Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mask_De_H
Duke


Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 1822

PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

With Fate Core, you aren't really getting more splats than what's on the SRD or what stunts you can convince your MC to let you make.

In general, numberwang and creative bullshitting with Aspects are how you "win" Fate, so you want to be very good at the Create an Advantage action. Since you want to play a Wizard, this should not be difficult. Remember that if you succeed with style on a Create an Advantage action, you get to double-tap that Aspect with the free invokes you made. This is, if I recall correctly, the only way to invoke the same Aspect twice in one roll. Also remember you can Create an Advantage on an existing Aspect (such as your own) and get free Fate Point equivalents without low comedy compels. You can create $TEXAS difficulty opposition with pumped up Situatiom Aspects, which takes actions to clear and can flat shut down a lot of things.

With that, just find a skill that you can do most of the Four Actions with, get a Stunt that covers what action(s) you can't, and pump your Aspects with free invokes. Lore has a Stunt that allows it to sub for any other skill in any action, but it costs real Fate Points to do so.
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Dogbert
Knight-Baron


Joined: 21 Apr 2011
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Are you using FATE or FATE Core, the difference is important since Core is just the barebones system with no real FX Systems (the things where "magic" would fall under) to speak of, more of a box of legos for you to build your own FX systems.

If you want already existant FATE games with d&d-like magic, go for Legends of Anglerre.
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Lago PARANOIA
Invincible Overlord


Joined: 25 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

This is for FATE Core, might use Venture City or Anglerre depending, though I'm interested in hearing about how you would set things up in other systems.

All right. So, going down the list of stunts, which ones were the most useful? Which ones seem like they could've been useful but there was some mechanic of the game that prevented them from coming up? For example, the Athletics Stunt that gives you a free aspect with invocation when you succeed with style seems like it could be good, but the problem is that: how often do you succeed with style on defense, especially with bigger opposition? Or that one Fight ability that lets you force bigger consequences: how often do enemies take the fight that long? Or going back to Challenges: how much of a deal is it that I can only use My One Big Skill once? Should I invest in a stunt that lets me use it twice?

That said, going back to the Athletics stunt, I notice that it does let you break the action economy. Any good stunts in the core or 'main' rulebook that I can plunder for examples?
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Josh Kablack wrote:
Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.


Last edited by Lago PARANOIA on Sat Dec 23, 2017 12:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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FrankTrollman
Serious Badass


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 27313

PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

My experience is that FATE based games have a combat system that really drags compared to how everything else in the system is reasonably quick-n-dirty. As such, most FATE games seem to play about one or two combats by the book and then start implementing house rules that streamline the fuck out of everything.

So stunts that trigger good things on rolling dice in combat are very good by the book. Rules as written you're going to end up doing that like thirty fucking times a night, so a stunt the triggers on even one roll in 6 is still triggering about five times. But in actuality you're going to be doing some sort of unpredictable streamlining and then those stunts may or may not do anything at all with your MC's secret rules.

-Frank
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Lago PARANOIA
Invincible Overlord


Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 10171

PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

What stunts ended up surviving usefulness post-streamlining? Again, it seems like the stunts that give out free invocations (like Best Foot Forward) look like they'll always be useful regardless of what kind of 'style' the DM wants to run.
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Josh Kablack wrote:
Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.
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Mask_De_H
Duke


Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 1822

PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Anything that stops a fight from happening or stops people from attacking, like Aura of Fear (can't attack you unless they Overcome or someone else tags you).

Anything that deals an extra consequence on a success/success with style; most enemies only have a few consequences.

Anything that generates more free invokes or grants aspects with free invokes. See my previous post.

Anything that allows you to switch a bad skill for your god skill, especially for Defend/Attack.

Anything that allows you to automatically succeed at either Defend, Overcome, or Create an Advantage actions X/scene.

The basic ass +2 to Action in Situation, where the Situation is broad and the Action is something you do all the time.
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Lago PARANOIA
Invincible Overlord


Joined: 25 Sep 2008
Posts: 10171

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So, using the advice in this thread, here's what I have so far for the Superhero game. We're not using any expansion material except for maybe the Fate Core Toolkit. We may switch to Venture City, but probably not. The stunts and the extra have page citations to show where I got the original idea from. Generally, it just has the original skill swapped out for 'Will'.

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Mask_De_H wrote:
Anything that deals an extra consequence on a success/success with style; most enemies only have a few consequences.

Quote:
Anything that allows you to automatically succeed at either Defend, Overcome, or Create an Advantage actions X/scene.


Do you have any in-book/on-website examples of stunts like this? I think my credibility would go up if I had something official to point to.

I really would like to have a stunt that lets me deal extra consequences on a success or at least a success with style, though. But I think my character is already straying outside of precedent a bit too much.

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Josh Kablack wrote:
Your freedom to make rulings up on the fly is in direct conflict with my freedom to interact with an internally consistent narrative. Your freedom to run/play a game without needing to understand a complex rule system is in direct conflict with my freedom to play a character whose abilities and flaws function as I intended within that ruleset. Your freedom to add and change rules in the middle of the game is in direct conflict with my ability to understand that rules system before I decided whether or not to join your game.

In short, your entire post is dismissive of not merely my intelligence, but my agency. And I don't mean agency as a player within one of your games, I mean my agency as a person. You do not want me to be informed when I make the fundamental decisions of deciding whether to join your game or buying your rules system.


Last edited by Lago PARANOIA on Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:07 am; edited 2 times in total
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Dogbert
Knight-Baron


Joined: 21 Apr 2011
Posts: 717

PostPosted: Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Lago PARANOIA wrote:
So, using the advice in this thread, here's what I have so far for the Superhero game.


Alas, FATE is not the system you want for superheroes unless you want to handle two completely different sets of scale benchmarks/difficulties: One for muggles and one for metahumans. Otherwise, the system was mostly made for low-to-mid powered games (unless your definition of "superhero" tops at The Defenders).

I read a "superhero" game for FATE once (I think it was Venture City) and was largely unimpressed at its "Legion of Losers" pitch.
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