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Suicide Squad: 1943

 
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Ancient History
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:18 am    Post subject: Suicide Squad: 1943 Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So. I had a terrible idea today, while I was supposed to be working.

Suicide Squad: 1943

We all know Suicide Squad was terribad, but hear me out on this one.

The premise is that the original Task Force X was a version of The Guns of Navarone, except the Army recruits 1930s and 40s mystery men criminals to help clandestinely fuck with a Japanese Imperial military project in the Pacific. It's pretty much a suicide mission (hence the name), but these people are crazy or desperate enough to actually want to escape life in prison.

It's a pretty straight-forward remake of Navarone, only with a setting shift (small Pacific island instead of small Greek island), low-level super criminals (no flying bricks, we're talking folks on the level of the lower level of the Flash's rogues gallery and secondary characters from Gotham), and the Japanese have a Nazi adviser (Vandal Savage) who has beef with nominal squad leader (Immortal Man) to add a bit of the Darth Vader/Obi Wan monkeywrench into what is essentially a higher-stakes heist movie where shit is supposed to be blown up.

Thoughts?
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angelfromanotherpin
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Reminds me of JSA: The Liberty File.
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Thaluikhain
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So, like the Dirty Dozen, but set in the Pacific? Actually, yeah, can't say Nazis are the bad guys anymore...

The DC Bombshell series had their version of Suicide Squad, though that was all female (excepting one crocodile man).

I liked Suicide Squad
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Ancient History
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well, you want to avoid every pretty much every connection to the original film, and you want to focus on actually having a good story, so...yeah, Dirty Dozen but low-level mystery men supers.
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Ancient History
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I mean, you can have Grandpa Flagg in there as the one normal soldier, and you could actually have a bad-guy with a katana that steals souls, but that's it.
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FrankTrollman
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The problem with the movie Suicide Squad is that it has bad story structure. Yes, Jared Leto's Joker is no better than the second worst live action Joker, but that's not what made the movie bad. The actors and characterizations for Harly, Deadshot, and El Diablo were very good, and it just didn't fucking matter because the story structure was so bad.

It's not hard to create a story for a film like that. You just need to hit certain key notes of basic story structure. For example:

  • With a large ensemble cast, you can't really afford to have dead ends. If one of the characters has a pink unicorn collection, that has to get used at some point for something.

  • For fuck's sake, you need the squad to be put together in response to an actual threat, rather than have literally the entire problem be that the squad exists.

  • You need to set your ceremonial killing of a squad member to show you're serious after you've established that character as being a full member of the squad. So no killing Slip Knott before he's had his flashback scene that all the other characters get. Fucking hell.

  • You need to set your "villain betrays the team" scene after the squad is committed to fighting the villain. And not, for example, have the betrayal scene be before most of the team members have even met each other. Because fucking obviously the betrayal scene doesn't have any emotional impact if the main characters don't even know the character doing the betrayal.

  • You need to have your "character chooses to complete mission rather than escape" scene be explicit near the end.


Now setting the whole thing in Japanese occupied Korea in the early 40s would solve several of those issues automagically. You'd have an identifiable villain before the characters get put into the squad and there'd be a reason for the characters to stay with the mission rather than fucking off.

You'd still have to get your head out of your ass and introduce your Chekhov's Guns and then fire them in the proper order, but at least you'd have a proper antagonist.

-Frank
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hyzmarca
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 8:21 am    Post subject: Re: Suicide Squad: 1943 Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Ancient History wrote:
So. I had a terrible idea today, while I was supposed to be working.

Suicide Squad: 1943

We all know Suicide Squad was terribad, but hear me out on this one.

The premise is that the original Task Force X was a version of The Guns of Navarone, except the Army recruits 1930s and 40s mystery men criminals to help clandestinely fuck with a Japanese Imperial military project in the Pacific. It's pretty much a suicide mission (hence the name), but these people are crazy or desperate enough to actually want to escape life in prison.


That's actually canon, though it was closer to the Dirty Dozen. That is, DC's original Suicide Squadron was a bunch of criminals used for extremely dangerous missions during World War II. The only difference is that they didn't have superpowers.


Quote:

It's a pretty straight-forward remake of Navarone, only with a setting shift (small Pacific island instead of small Greek island), low-level super criminals (no flying bricks, we're talking folks on the level of the lower level of the Flash's rogues gallery and secondary characters from Gotham), and the Japanese have a Nazi adviser (Vandal Savage) who has beef with nominal squad leader (Immortal Man) to add a bit of the Darth Vader/Obi Wan monkeywrench into what is essentially a higher-stakes heist movie where shit is supposed to be blown up.

Funny thing about Vandal is that in the comics he explicitly wasn't a Nazi, but an American businessman during World War II. He almost got confirmed as the US Secretary of Labor, but his confirmation hearing was interrupted by Alan Scott, who proved that Vandal was using a stolen identity. That version of Vandal Savage was just doing everything for the lulz. He didn't want power for himself, but was terribly bored and really enjoyed playing the game of thrones as a behind-the-scenes kingmaker.

I think that Vandal works really well as someone who just doesn't give a crap, and is only playing the game because eternal life gets boring. He works less well as someone who is actually interested in ruling the world, because he's had plenty of time to conquer it already.







Quote:

Thoughts?

It works better than the movie Suicide Squad does, certainly.
The movie Suicide Squad has massive flaws that go beyond storytelling structure. Which include making Amanda Waller more evil than the criminals on the Squad, which is just an extension of the trend in the comics. I mean, at this point, Lex Luthor is a better person than Waller.

Basically, this idea is better right off the bat because it doesn't have cranial bombs. It's 1940 so of course it doesn't. It has people who want to be there for whatever reason.

Unfortunately, I can't think of any iconic WWII Japanese villains from DC.

The closest I can come up with are Captain Nippon, Nippo the Nipponese, and Yellow Hawk. All incredibly racist, and all originally from Fawcett.
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Chamomile
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:08 am    Post subject: Re: Suicide Squad: 1943 Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

hyzmarca wrote:
Which include making Amanda Waller more evil than the criminals on the Squad,


This bugged me so much. When Enchantresses' world destroying spell gets going, they try to set up how scary it all is by showing US aircraft carriers getting wrecked, but, like, the movie has been trying super hard to convince me that the US government is pure evil, so I don't care?
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Stahlseele
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Waller is always the evil government Agent.
They got that right at least.
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Thaluikhain
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The part that really got me was the bit about their weapons being totally useless against Enchantress's brother. So they decide to use a demo charge, because that's different?

Oh, and when the communication satellite gets blown up, and the military watch it happening, getting a live feed from what's presumably another satellite right next to it that exists solely to film the first one.
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FrankTrollman
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Stahlseele wrote:
Waller is always the evil government Agent.
They got that right at least.


The whole point of Waller is that she is an Ends Justify The Means person. Her goals are things like saving the world and protecting the nation. But her methods are blackmail, murder, and intimidation. She is morally complicated, and the government keeps her secrets because they like her results and fear the public would rebel if they knew how she got them.

The Waller in the movie is just killing people and stealing stuff for no apparent reason. It's a major problem with the movie. There's no given reason why anyone else would go along with her plans or cover up her mistakes.

-Frank
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Stahlseele
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The Main-Problem with that stinker of a movie was the whole imbalance of power.
You have the human torch. You have a literal all powerfull witch. You have a chick with a magic sword. You have the almost unkillable tough and inhumanly strong amphibian monster Killer Croc.
You have the arguably best weapons master and sharpshooter in the universe.
And then you have captain boomerang. And Harley - i have a baseball bat - Quinn . . It's the fucking angel summoner versus the BMX Bike Kid all over again.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

The weird thing about that is that once you bring in Enchantress, 'being crazy' can be a tier 1 power. Have the evil sorcerers use some illusions or fear powers and instantly Harly can be a fully contributing member just by having a lot of Willpower.

The really aggravating thing about Suicide Squad is how trivially obvious the problems and potential solutions are. That it could go to its final state without anyone calling bullshit is hella weird.

-Frank
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angelfromanotherpin
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Stahlseele wrote:
And then you have captain boomerang.

In the comics I read, Boomerang was the most insubordinate team member, but every time they managed to get him to actually contribute he kicked ass out of all proportion because he was used to fighting a guy who moved at the literal speed of light.

But that version of the Squad also did a lot of specialist contracting, where the main team would get guest villains to contribute for one mission where their skills were relevant; I remember one time they had the Penguin plan a kidnap/extraction for them just because he was a criminal mastermind and available. Quinn fits much better as a per-mission specialist where her particular knowledge is valuable. In the animated Squad movie, it was because she knew Arkham. In the live-action movie, it could have been because she used to be June's therapist or something.
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Stahlseele
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I never actually thought of captain boomerang as much more than a joke character . .
But i guess if you set him up against somebody who does not move at the speed of light, he would probably fare realtively well O.o
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maglag
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 4:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

FrankTrollman wrote:
Stahlseele wrote:
Waller is always the evil government Agent.
They got that right at least.


The whole point of Waller is that she is an Ends Justify The Means person. Her goals are things like saving the world and protecting the nation. But her methods are blackmail, murder, and intimidation. She is morally complicated, and the government keeps her secrets because they like her results and fear the public would rebel if they knew how she got them.

The Waller in the movie is just killing people and stealing stuff for no apparent reason. It's a major problem with the movie. There's no given reason why anyone else would go along with her plans or cover up her mistakes.

-Frank


In the most recent suicide squad comics I read, Waller appears to have retired and her successor loves to come up with exotic torture methods for the team, including sacrificing other people and lots of expensive gear just to mess with their minds. Plus collects a giant pile of dangerous artifacts and developed a ressurection drug that is solely used in the suicide squad fallen members. Because why share a ressurection drug with non villains right?
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OgreBattle
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

For a different take...

Something lthey're all nonwhite Americans with low level powers or quirks as the suicide squad.

Like how the 442nd was intended to die in battle to cover White regiments but kept on surviving.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/442nd_Infantry_Regiment_(United_States)

Black guy that underwent Tuskegee experiments and survived, Japanese American with an ancestral katana, etc.
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