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The Sprawl

 
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Guts
NPC


Joined: 07 Aug 2017
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:19 pm    Post subject: The Sprawl Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Anyone here played this? From reading it, it looks a pretty neat take on Shadowrun. Though it seems to suffer from the same problem of a convoluted matrix sub -system.
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Aryxbez
Knight-Baron


Joined: 15 Oct 2010
Posts: 970

PostPosted: Fri Oct 20, 2017 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

These kind of threads tend to not get much replies if any, part of it may stem that some people don't play much RPG's, or the ones they do aren't really going to be other games than the major ones talked about. Course by all means correct where I'm wrong, this is all niche obviously.

Additionally, I don't think you're getting much responses as it's based as any cursory would tell me, on the Bear-World System. I really like the character sheets to these kind of games, but hate the "Bear" aspect of having to make up shizen constantly, as the game should be giving me outputs and rules I can run off of, else I don't need to buy a game that wants me to MTP it. So how hard does it fall into Bear-World territory, what does it do to alleviate those pure DM Fiat elements and give us more consistent results?

Also, what elements make it "neat take on Shadowrun?", What is it doing differently in terms of rules, and setting? Also, tell me about the Matrix sub-system, what makes it convoluted? (Though I can barely understand Matrix in SR, so it may go over my head).
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Guts
NPC


Joined: 07 Aug 2017
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Bear World? Is this Apocalypse World? LOL

Aryxbez wrote:
I really like the character sheets to these kind of games, but hate the "Bear" aspect of having to make up shizen constantly, as the game should be giving me outputs and rules I can run off of, else I don't need to buy a game that wants me to MTP it.

Oh I got it. Yeah, it's really taxing having to improvise constantly in the game. The Sprawl apparently has more "meat" to it, with more pre-made outputs in it's moves, which should alleviate this issue.

Quote:
Also, what elements make it "neat take on Shadowrun?", What is it doing differently in terms of rules, and setting?

It mechanizes the activity of shadowrunning (or missions/heists as seen on stories like Ronin, Neuromancer, etc) instead of physics simulation, if that makes sense. It does that by creating "countdown clocks" for the Corporations and other threats, for tracking the heat these are getting on the players. Each clock is a countdown to "midnight", and each segment that is filled triggers some effect in the game. Character moves are linked to these clocks, so bad rolls may fill clock segments directly. Overall, the impression I get is the game pushes for a constant feeling of oppression from the corporations, pressuring players to minimize error and exposition or feel the heat (gunfire also seems more lethal here than in shadowrun).

During missions, it also creates a "Legwork" and an "Action" clock. The Legwork Clock tracks how much noise the players do while probing/gathering intel on the target. While the Action clock tracks how alert the target site is. So if you mess it up during Legwork, chances are the target location will be on alert, lockdown and with reinforcements in place. And if the Action clock fills up, the mission fails/is over.

There's more to it, but I think those are the essentials. But that's just by reading. I never played it, so take it with a grain of salt.


Last edited by Guts on Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:13 pm; edited 4 times in total
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Longes
Prince


Joined: 04 Nov 2013
Posts: 2506

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It's not a take on Shadowrun, it's just a cyberpunk game. It's closer to Cyberpunk 2020.
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FrankTrollman
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm genuinely not interested in actually playing any Bear World games, whether they are nominally referencing genres I enjoy or not. It's entirely possible for there to be good ideas in these games - heartbreakers almost always have various orphaned good ideas. But the core mechanics of Bear World are so awful that it's a genuine question as to whether these fucking things should be considered games at all. And I am firmly on the side that holds that they should not.

Longes wrote:
It's not a take on Shadowrun, it's just a cyberpunk game. It's closer to Cyberpunk 2020.


Oh, it's definitely a take on Shadowrun. The first stretch goal is to add a "Missions Pack," and the second stretch goal (at fifteen thousand New Zealand Dollars, which I believe to be $8.43 American) is to finish writing the Magic chapter.

And honestly, getting Shadowrun into a less second by second accounting of the physics engine and more into abstract action resolution is a great idea. That is the direction that Shadowrun should move into. That it should have moved into twenty actual fucking years ago. It's just that as previously mentioned, Bear World is not a viable platform to realize that vision.

-Frank
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Guts
NPC


Joined: 07 Aug 2017
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yep, the game is definitely a Shadowrun clone on a lighter chassis. It's purely focused on missions, for eg, something Cyberpunk 2020 wasnt' if I remember correctly. There is even a supplement for magic and metahumans on the way.

And the german kickstarter is up: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/58354395/der-sprawl-ein-missionsbasiertes-cyberpunk-rollens

Edit: loved the art, a pity I can't speak german.


Last edited by Guts on Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:16 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Stahlseele
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Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 4913
Location: Hamburg, Germany

PostPosted: Sat Oct 21, 2017 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You are not missing much there . .
It is basicall shadowrun using the apoclypse world system.
And with 25 days left to go, they have 5.9k of the needed 5k
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Guts
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Joined: 07 Aug 2017
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

For some folks, that's exactly what's been missing from shadowrun. Wink
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Voss
Prince


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 3683

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Bears? I'm pretty sure there was a para-bear in some supplement or other.
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Guts
NPC


Joined: 07 Aug 2017
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

"Para-bear" is the perfect name for the Sprawl. (if I got the joke right, that is Big Grin)
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FrankTrollman
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Joined: 07 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Where Man meets Magic Bear and Machine Bear.

The core problem with Apocalypse World is that there are less moves than in most board games; and the results of those moves are determined not by the prior game state, your choices, or even the accompanying die roll. You declare a move, you roll the dice, and then the MC makes something up. There's no relation between the declared move or the results of the die roll, the MC just pulls something out of their ass regardless. Any inputs from the player or the RNG are just "prior events" that are as likely to influence the MC's next declaration as the ham sandwich they ate for lunch.

And this isn't just nitpicking on my part. The examples from the Apocalypse World book are absolutely like that. Not once, but over and over again. Success on a combat roll results in the players making a valiant fighting retreat and still losing ground and taking casualties. Success on a perception roll results in the players having to abandon the mission. And so on. The "success at a cost" examples are even worse, where over and over again the "cost" is simply "you don't succeed."

Whatever you choose, whatever you roll, the MC attacks you with Bears. And reskinning that fail train as Magic Bears plus Cyborg Bears does not make it more pallateable.

-Frank
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