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Shadowrun 4e newbie questions
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Trill
Apprentice


Joined: 26 May 2017
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

FrankTrollman wrote:
Synthacardium adds its rating because dodge is a dicepool where you are using the skill when you gymnastic dodge.

?
The description of Synthacardium says:
CRB p.339 wrote:
The synthacar-
dium adds its rating as a dice pool modifier on all Athletics
Tests.

Which are skills in the Athletics Group (Climbing, Flight, Gymnastics, Running, Swimming), not Dodge. And if Gymnastic dodge only adds the skill then Synthacardium makes no difference since it doesn't modify the actual skill rating, only giving a DPM

Or does using Gymnastics make it a Athletics Test?


Last edited by Trill on Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Whipstitch
Prince


Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 2939

PostPosted: Sun Sep 17, 2017 11:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It applies because an athletics test is just a test that uses a skill in the athletics skill group umbrella. People try to make tortured arguments that Gym Dodge is a "defense test" instead and synth bonuses shouldn't qualify but that doesn't pass the smell test because "defense test" isn't a defined term in the rules and because it would be the only area where I'm aware of ppl getting fucked out of their bonuses by double secret test subcategories. I wouldn't be surprised if synth dodge stacking was unintended because writers weren't talking and some old ware was grandfathered in but by the raw it should be in.
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Iduno
NPC


Joined: 10 Feb 2017
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I've always heard gymnastic dodge is great, but it looks like it takes an action, where regular dodge is free. If you're facing someone worth spending an action on, you can get reaction+dodge+dodge, which is probably lower than but still comparable to agility+gymnastics+boosters. Having the flexibility to dodge without using an action seems like a better deal.

What am I missing.
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Trill
Apprentice


Joined: 26 May 2017
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Iduno wrote:
reaction+dodge+dodge

That's Full Defense against Melee. And yeah, if you have a good Dodge you might get a better dice pool.
But Full Defense against Ranged is just Reaction+Dodge. And you have the same dice pool with REA 5 Dodge 5 and REA 5 Gymnastics 2 Synthacardium 3
Which costs you far less.

And Dodge is only used for Defense, while Gymnastics also makes you great at general gymnastics(tightrope walking, jumping, keeping balance). So with the same rating you get more if you invest in Gymnastics
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Korwin
Duke


Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 1897
Location: Linz / Austria

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Iduno wrote:
I've always heard gymnastic dodge is great, but it looks like it takes an action, where regular dodge is free. If you're facing someone worth spending an action on, you can get reaction+dodge+dodge, which is probably lower than but still comparable to agility+gymnastics+boosters. Having the flexibility to dodge without using an action seems like a better deal.

What am I missing.

If I remember correctly:

Meele Full defense:
Rea + Dodge + Dodge
or
Rea + Gym + Melee Skill

Ranged Full defense:
Rea + Dodge
or
Rea + Gym

And you can push Gym more with cyberware.

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I mean, I'm pretty sure the Mayans had a prophecy about what would happen if Frank and PL ever agreed on something. PL will argue with Frank that the sky is blue or grass is green, so when they both separately piss on your idea that is definitely something to think about.
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Trill
Apprentice


Joined: 26 May 2017
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Not exactly:
Melee Full Defense:
REA+Dodge+Dodge or
REA+Dodge+Gym or
REA+Dodge+(Weapon Skill) or
REA+(Weapon Skill)+(Weapon Skill)

Ranged Full Defense:
REA+Dodge or
REA+Gym

Dodge is useful if you are often in Melee ranged fights, since you always add it to your defense pool and have three means to add to it in full defense. But if you are sufficiently capable of using your melee weapon you may use that in Full defense.

And of course in Ranged fights it is in direct competition with Gymnastics which is easier to get, easier to push and more useful outside of fights
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Trill
Apprentice


Joined: 26 May 2017
Posts: 98

PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2017 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Am I reading it correctly that the more ware you have, the easier a Cyberware scanner can find you?
Is there a way to shut them down/avoid them like you can do with MAD?
And how common should they be?
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Whipstitch
Prince


Joined: 29 Apr 2011
Posts: 2939

PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Yeah, Dodge's biggest selling point is that it's one stop shopping for second line combatants who want to save money or essence while still having a passive defense pool in case some random ganger tries shanking them. Basically, people don't take Dodge because it's better than a combo of Gymnastics, Unarmed and Synthacardium, they take Dodge because they're riggers or mages and want to stay under specific point caps.
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Last edited by Whipstitch on Tue Oct 03, 2017 5:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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Iduno
NPC


Joined: 10 Feb 2017
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Mon Oct 23, 2017 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Trill wrote:
Am I reading it correctly that the more ware you have, the easier a Cyberware scanner can find you?
Is there a way to shut them down/avoid them like you can do with MAD?
And how common should they be?


Yes, more cyberware causes the scanner to be more likely to find you.

I guess you would install one everywhere that you want an alarm to go off for every 4th person so you can check why they have cyberware and what type it is, and are okay with some false positives because it's only one layer in the security and people expect to wait anyway (airports or Denver checkpoints where security is looking for combat cyberware), or places where you for some reason want only non-cybered people to enter (I cannot think of an example). If you consider the effect on the world: long lines at the security check-point because cyberware is supposed to be common in the world, there are not a lot of places where it would be reasonable to implement. Can you imagine the corps wanting people to waste the first hour of work waiting in line for security to determine if they installed new cybereyes?

Also, if you're a GM or JH that hates non-mages, you'd put them everywhere. Because you are terrible.
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