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Hiram McDaniels
Knight


Joined: 15 Sep 2014
Posts: 307

PostPosted: Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'm gonna play through the Baldur's Gate EE games again.

Pondering human fighter dual-classed to swashbuckler. I figure I can be fully specialized in short sword by lvl 3, but I'll be hating life until 6 which is most of the first game. I know folks here swear by spellcasters, but I like playing melee guys.

I'm trying to remember if the swashbuckler loses backstab entirely, or just stealth backstab. Also trying to remember if mid combat backstabbing is even a thing, or if you have to be completely hidden like in the p&p version of 2e.

Also I like playing good aligned parties, but the good spellcasters are kind of meh. I wonder what happens if you put Edwin and Dynaheir in the same party.
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The most dangerous game is man. The most entertaining game is Broadway Puppy Ball. The most weird game is Esoteric Bear.
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Voss
Prince


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 3747

PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 5:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Well... most of that isn't doable without an save editor. Just... at all.

First, the game doesn't let you dual class into a kit. You only get an option with the first class.

Second, you can't fully specialize by level 3. You can only put 2 dots in specialization at first level, so you'll be getting a third dot at level 3, and the fourth and fifth will be later on. Happily you can keep specializing after you dual class (which is vague and debatable by the PnP rules).

Third, yes. Swashbucklers lose backstab. They're worth taking for additional static bonuses to hit and damage and AC, but not much else. You've got a second long trudge of being shitty somewhere mid-game. In BG the main use for swashbucklers is going to level five for some static bonuses and disarm/lockpick, then switching to mage. (and ignoring that fact that you can get melee weapon specialization and just using a bow)

Backstab requires stealth, which requires being out of line of sight of enemies, so mid combat backstab involves wandering off from the fight and coming back. You're better off straight up murdering people rather than running off and running back. I'm not sure what distinction you're making between 'backstab' and 'stealth backstab,' that isn't really a thing.


As for E & D, eventually they freak out, if you can manage it at all. Keep in mind their goals are murder and not be murdered.

Xan is actually a wackily useful individual, especially so at high level. EE grants specialists a flat -2 to enemy saves against their speciality, and the enchantment spells can be fucking game breaking. His shitty con is a problem, and he has a cool sword that he shouldn't ever use, but he isn't replaceable with wands the way the other two are.

The new one for EE, Neera, is of course a wild mage and should therefor be murdered on sight.
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Hiram McDaniels
Knight


Joined: 15 Sep 2014
Posts: 307

PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Voss wrote:
Well... most of that isn't doable without an save editor. Just... at all.

First, the game doesn't let you dual class into a kit. You only get an option with the first class.

Second, you can't fully specialize by level 3. You can only put 2 dots in specialization at first level, so you'll be getting a third dot at level 3, and the fourth and fifth will be later on. Happily you can keep specializing after you dual class (which is vague and debatable by the PnP rules).

Third, yes. Swashbucklers lose backstab. They're worth taking for additional static bonuses to hit and damage and AC, but not much else. You've got a second long trudge of being shitty somewhere mid-game. In BG the main use for swashbucklers is going to level five for some static bonuses and disarm/lockpick, then switching to mage. (and ignoring that fact that you can get melee weapon specialization and just using a bow)

Backstab requires stealth, which requires being out of line of sight of enemies, so mid combat backstab involves wandering off from the fight and coming back. You're better off straight up murdering people rather than running off and running back. I'm not sure what distinction you're making between 'backstab' and 'stealth backstab,' that isn't really a thing.


As for E & D, eventually they freak out, if you can manage it at all. Keep in mind their goals are murder and not be murdered.

Xan is actually a wackily useful individual, especially so at high level. EE grants specialists a flat -2 to enemy saves against their speciality, and the enchantment spells can be fucking game breaking. His shitty con is a problem, and he has a cool sword that he shouldn't ever use, but he isn't replaceable with wands the way the other two are.

The new one for EE, Neera, is of course a wild mage and should therefor be murdered on sight.


Yeah I plan to use a save editor to dual class into a kit. I don't consider it cheating since it's allowable by pen & paper rules. I don't plan on cheesiness my character out in any other way.

I forgot about the * limit at chargen though. BGI only goes up to level 8 I think so I might have to wait until BGII, unless proficiency dots are cumulative once I get my fighter shit back. My concern is a) not being able to hit anything because of thief thac0, and b) getting one shorted frequently because of thief hp.

Youre probably right about xan. I kind of wanted to run through with the canon party, but invokers = jerk off motion and rolled eyes.
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Voss
Prince


Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 3747

PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

They aren't particularly interesting, but it's still 2nd edition rules (and monster HP). It's one of the few times where evokers are allowed to be relevant.


BG goes up to 160,000 xp (or so. It might be 161K or something) with Tales of the Sword Coast, more if you go with the trashy add-on from Beamdog.

If thief is your second class HP isn't really an issue. You keep your fighter HP (and con mod for fighter levels). Not much in BG1 is going to one shot you except at the beginning and end.

Hitting can be something of an issue if you swap at fighter 3, But a high strength and weapon mastery combined with the swashbuckler bonuses means more than the THAC0 progression will anyway.
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