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Lokathor
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Going into/through jammed space has the same effect as if you're broadcasting from jammed space. That's how a Head Jammer works (high strength jamming within a very short range around your head).

Note that jamming zones (and spam zones) would be fully visible within Matrix Perception.

Round down on threshold calculations unless specified otherwise.
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Trill
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

How dense are faraday cages and how big of a hole do you need to destroy their power?

Are they like a continuous mesh that you can barely see through? Are the holes big enough to put anything through? If so, what? A finger? A pen? A needle?

And how much of a hole is enough to make them open? Any damage at all?
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deaddmwalking
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Have you ever lost cell signal going under a bridge? That's a Faraday Cage. They can be big with big holes (laege enough to pass a car through). They can also be solid with no holes (like an elevator).

Here's a pretty [url=science.howstuffworks.com/faraday-cage.htm]basic explanation[/url]


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Trill
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

First of all, the bridge example doesn't work. That's not a Faraday cage. That's just the signal being sent with backward (or close) phase due to the materials warping and re-emitting, thus not being strong enough to be read correctly
I know what a Faraday Cage is. But the filtered frequencies depend on the mesh density.

So I'm asking: Since we don't know all the frequencies (and honestly don't want to know), what density should faraday cages have?
Dense mesh?
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Loose mesh?
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Solid container?
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And how much damage do you need to do on it to make it topologically open? One point? (Rating) points? (5-Rating) points (better filtering is easier to break)?


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deaddmwalking
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You are correct that not every highway bridge is a Faraday cage. Certain metal bridges do behave that way. But in any case, I thought your question was in regards to real life physics as opposed to what you eant to use for the game (which can probably use an undefined space in the EM spectrum.
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Trill
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

deaddmwalking wrote:
Certain metal bridges do behave that way.

And I'm telling you, those are not Faraday cages, just antennae.
Best demonstrated by the fact that changing the position of the sender would improve the signal (which a faraday cage does not allow). These are just like the Earth:
Ends of the Matrix wrote:
The Earth
The Earth itself has a crap ton of crazy metals and such in it, and will absorb or reflect pretty
much any frequencies you care to mention with at least some of its constituents.


It's less "frequencies not being able to enter through the surface, instead being converted into surface currents" and more "part of it will be absorbed, part of it will be reflected back, part of it reflected forwards (with different phase) which interferes with the signal that's left through"

Quote:
But in any case, I thought your question was in regards to real life physics as opposed to what you eant to use for the game

deaddmwalking, we are in the topic for EOTM. Why would you assume that I'm asking about real life physics?
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deaddmwalking
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Trill wrote:

Quote:
But in any case, I thought your question was in regards to real life physics as opposed to what you eant to use for the game

deaddmwalking, we are in the topic for EOTM. Why would you assume that I'm asking about real life physics?


Because you said:

Trill wrote:
How dense are faraday cages and how big of a hole do you need to destroy their power?

Are they like a continuous mesh that you can barely see through? Are the holes big enough to put anything through? If so, what? A finger? A pen? A needle?

And how much of a hole is enough to make them open? Any damage at all?


That seemed to imply a lack of understanding about how Faraday cages work in reality. The fact that a faraday cage can work with holes the size of a chain link fence or a fine mesh implies that the physical qualities are less important than a simple toggle (is faraday cage/is not faraday cage). The advantage of making one out of stronger materials would be that it would be more difficult to break, rather than an improvement in the quality of signal blocking. Thus a 1mm or a 1 m cage would be equally effective; a 5cm openening of a 5mm opening would be equally effective.
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Trill
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Quote:
The fact that a faraday cage can work with holes the size of a chain link fence or a fine mesh implies that the physical qualities are less important

no, they aren't. The density of the mesh determines what wavelengths can pass through and which can not

Faraday cages block every wavelength larger than the diameter of the holes
So a chainlink fence Faraday cage and a microwave sight
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Faraday Cage have some overlap in what wavelengths they block. A chainlink fence FC blocks radio transmissions (on all channels) and some Alternating currents
a microwave sight FC blocks that AND microwaves, while everything below that (visible light, IR, UV, X-rays, gamma radiation, etc.) are let through
A FC with holes of about 1mm to 780 nm would allow you to see through, but wouldn't let IR radiation through

Which is why I'm asking:
What density does the mesh have? I'm not even asking for exact measurements and information of the build type.
I'm just asking for the magnitude for it. Can you see through? Can you put anything through the holes? Or are they so dense that not even Visible light goes through?

And I'm also asking what you need to open them up. Meaning: Does punching a hole with your finger stop their ability? What about a bullet hole? Can you go through with some shears and cut them open or do you need something like a cutting torch?

Again: I'm not asking for details, since neither you, nor me, nor anyone else actually gives a fuck whether these are 1.5 mm or 1.333 mm.
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Lokathor
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 4:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Arbitrary Decision: The holes are somewhat tiny, and the normal style will obscure vision, but you can also buy the transparent version.

PS: Don't ask how it's made.
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Trill
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Lokathor wrote:
Arbitrary Decision: The holes are somewhat tiny, and the normal style will obscure vision, but you can also buy the transparent version.

Okay, first question answered.
What about the second? How much damage would you say is enough? One point?

Lokathor wrote:
PS: Don't ask how it's made.

Didn't intend to
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Trill
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Assuming two Spiders and a hacker
Hacker H has gone stealthy and rolled two hits on the test
Spider A and Spider B are looking for unusual things.
Spider A rolls 3 hits while Spider B rolls just one.
This means that Spider A can see H stealthing around, while Spider B can't
Can Spider A give information to B so that B also sees H?

Also: Did I read it correctly that you don't use Firewall to defend against Black Hammer?

Also2: Cancel says it reduces the dice pool on all broadcast Matrix actions. What exactly is that? All Programs? Programs with Range M?


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Lokathor
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

I'd say that you use the normal Perception rules here. Which escape me off the top of my head but I'm pretty sure they're something like, "if you're told what to look for you can roll again with +4", or maybe that's DnD. Anyway, however you'd handle it with normal perception, do the same with matrix perception.

You resist Black Hammer with Willpower+Biofeedback Rating. Normally your Biofeedback Rating is equal to your Firewall, but if you've got Redundant Biofeedback Filters active then that program's rating is also a bonus. This means that you're probably adding your System in (assuming you've got the best program available for your device), which means that you can safely use [Willpower+2*Commlink Rating] as the initial dice pool for most NPCs you target. Note that if you're in BTL mode then your biofeedback rating is automatically 0 instead (Live hard die hard).

Some matrix actions aren't about you broadcasting things. Such as resistance tests, decryption tests, even issuing a command to a drone if you're touching the drone and instructing via skinlink. Those sorts of test aren't affected by Cancel.
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Trill
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Lokathor wrote:
I'd say that you use the normal Perception rules here. Which escape me off the top of my head but I'm pretty sure they're something like, "if you're told what to look for you can roll again with +4", or maybe that's DnD. Anyway, however you'd handle it with normal perception, do the same with matrix perception.

I'd usually say "if the thing was not seen due to not looking in the right place you now see it. If it was because it was unseen you get a +3 bonus to your test"

Quote:
You resist Black Hammer with Willpower+Biofeedback Rating. Normally your Biofeedback Rating is equal to your Firewall, but if you've got Redundant Biofeedback Filters active then that program's rating is also a bonus. This means that you're probably adding your System in (assuming you've got the best program available for your device), which means that you can safely use [Willpower+2*Commlink Rating] as the initial dice pool for most NPCs you target. Note that if you're in BTL mode then your biofeedback rating is automatically 0 instead (Live hard die hard).

OH. I always read it as Redundant Biofeedback! It now makes a lot more sense

Quote:
Some matrix actions aren't about you broadcasting things. Such as resistance tests, decryption tests, even issuing a command to a drone if you're touching the drone and instructing via skinlink. Those sorts of test aren't affected by Cancel.

So you are effectively cutting out the matrix capabilities. So everything where they send signals gets a penalty equal to your net hits, got it.
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Trill
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Seize: When reducing the net hits, do you roll WIL+Biofeedback or just WIL?
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Lokathor
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Trill wrote:
Seize: When reducing the net hits, do you roll WIL+Biofeedback or just WIL?


The full Will+Biofeedback dice pool is rolled again.
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Trill
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So just to make sure:
Emerged Critters (Matrix capable critters): Salvageable or not?
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Lokathor
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2017 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

You might have to do a bunch of conversions, but it's funny for a dog to eat your matrix homework, and I bet it would fuel the religious insanity from the Technomancers to have blessed beasts exist.
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Trill
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 2:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Lokathor wrote:
You might have to do a bunch of conversions

That's putting it lightly
There is so much to change that it might be better to just make them from scratch
There are three Big Areas:

Powers
These are big and bad. Some of them have equivalents (Gremlins - Gremlins), some only work in the original system (Holographic Concealment gives penalties to everyone in AR, and Cozenage is about Spoof tests and Account ratings), and some are plain bad (Cookies tracks all matrix activity after it is placed and Tunnel allows you to enter any system without the firewall being any wiser, but every action needs a Hacking roll)
So putting them 1:1 isn't possible or wise, which is why that point is better done from scratch. Problem with the powers in EotM is that they are written from a sprite perspective, so some powers won't fit them or needed powers don't exist.

Echoes
Similar: these either lack some that critters could need or can't be fitted 1:1, so you also need to work from scratch

Skills and programs
This is probably the biggest problem. I honestly don't know how to balance the fact that Skills in 4e and in EOTM are so much different in importance. In 4e you can mend low skill with a good program and these two are the things you need. In EOTM meanwhile your skills are very important since they and your attributes are the only way to improve your dice pool. Plus, again, the programs. Which need to be chosen.

So yeah, the only thing you can really take over is "What are they supposed to do" and try to replicate that with the tools you have here
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Trill
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 11:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

So I went through the Powers at least
Anthropomorphism
Critters with this power can emulate Physical skills as Complex Forms given access to someone doing the skill and a Threading(3) test
Maybe keep it? It may be powerful, but I don't believe they should be able to do it consistently, and getting one more skill at a time should be okay. If we translate it, maybe: Make a INT+Software(2) test, net hits determine Rating of skill, up to rating of person you're copying for (net hits) hours

AR-Parallelism
Lets them see AR without distraction penalties by Ads or similar
Unneeded in this system.

Blend
Allows the critter to blend into the landscape. Matrix Perception tests against it have a -2 penalty, attacks against it have a -2 penalty.
Already done by Data Masking. Attack mod. is ignored

Cozenage
Critters gain +2 dice on Spoof Command tests and Thresholds for accounts are reduced by 2
I honestly don't know how to translate this. Master Access by default? Bonus to the Master Control form? Not porting it?

Diagnostics
Critter rolls RESx2. Net hits provide a DPM for using that device
In normal 4e this is one of the ways TM can help people. Use a Machine Sprite, Let it use the power, Sprite will on average get RESx2/3 hits. So if you use it on your smartgun you'll get more dice.
It seems a bit powerful. Maybe limit it so it can only give boni to Command tests.

E-Hive
Critters band together into a hivemind. The hivemind acts as one being (for the purpose of commands, targeting, etc.) with RES being the average RES + 1 per 2 critters. Skills are those the constituents know at a rating of average Rating + 1 per 2 critters.
We can probably keep it. Given that critters with this power have low RES and skills anyway it shouldn't matter much.

Gremlins
Gremlins
Gremlins, duh!

Hardening
Changes normal Armor program to Hardened Armor
Can probably keep it.

Holographic Concealment
Critter can create realistic AROs masking people. People in AR get -RES to Perception tests against Subject
May be okay? Basically the Concealment power as Matrix power.

Resonance Bond
Creates a bond between critter and subject (sapient being) giving a Resonance Link between them through which they can exchange data and track each other
Isn't this basically "Bound Sprite-Summoner Communication: The Power"? Should be fine

Resonance Conditioning
Implants a meme into the mind of the subject, forcing them to follow that command
Jingle

Spraying
Places marker AROs with a RESx2 vs. SYS+FIRE test. Marks may be infused, so that "prey species" that analyze it must make a SYS+FIRE vs RESx2 or feel in danger and have a -1 penalty to all tests in that node
I don't know how to make this. Closest seems: They make a special ARO, which may be placed freely with a RESx2 test or in servers (in which case you need a RESx2 vs. FIRE+Armor test). People making Matrix Perception tests against it must succeed in a WIL+FIRE+Armor vs. RESx2 test or get a -1 penalty within 10 m or within the server. They can be destroyed by reducing their hits to 0.

Suppression
If alarms are triggered they are delayed by Rating/2
Unneeded

Technovantage[Echo]
Gives the critter an Echo. Advanced Echos require the previous Echos. If the Echo depends on the Submersion grade treat it as having Grade equal to RES/2 (round up)
Can stay

Traceroute
Gives the critter the ability to search out the location of a network when given logs of interactions.
Find already does this, as do Backtrack and Who Is.

Tunnel
Allows the critter to enter a node by subverting the Firewall. It makes a Hacking+Exploit(1) test. If successful it enters and the Firewall may not look for it. However all actions inside must be made with Hacking. IC and Hackers will immediately perceive it as a threat
Doesn't Backdoor already do this

Venomous Code
When the critter damages Icons in Matrix Combat it injects the Icon with an E-Venom, which has the stats of Vector: Cybercombat Damage, Speed: 1 Combat Turn, Power: 6, Effect: Matrix Damage. Venoms may also do Stun of Physical Damage
Can probably stay. Maybe change the damage to 4 or 5 Icon Damage

Virtual Mimicry
Allows the Critter to change its icon to whatever it wants. When making a Matrix Perception test they must beat the RES of the critter or see the projected image
Data Masking
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Trill
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

now the Echos. Some of them are already supported (Overclocking, Amplitude), Some are just shit (Firewall upgrade? Seriously? I'd rather spend some karma on a better WIL and get better resistance in many other things) and some sound okay if you change them:

Amplification
Increases Signal by 1
We have this as Amplitude, without the restriction on how many you can take

Blur
Increases Threshold to find the signature of TMs
Since there are no signatures this Echo is useless

Biowire
Gives a biological Skillwire with the submersion grade as the rating
Pretty cool, though maybe a bit too costly. Who wants to spend between 57 and 95 karma just for the submersions when you could just spend 1 ESS and 10000 nY and get yourself Skillwires at 5 or spend 0.9 ESS and 23000 nY and get yourself Skillwires 5 and the Skillwire Expert system and then buy one Submersion and one RES point
So maybe like with MBW: Get it once and you have Skillwires 2, get it twice and you have Skillwires 3 and get it three times and you get Skillwires 5 (maybe even with Expert system). Maybe call it "Emulating"

Coenesthesia
Allows for the detection of Resonance powers in the vicinity
Since a matrix perception test will tell you of any program or complex form being used this is redundant

Defragmentation
Roll a RES+WIL (1 Combat Turn) Extended Test. Every net hit heals one point of Matrix damage. Damage that's not healed has to heal naturally.
Maybe useful? A TM usually has good RES and WIL. Since they don't have an Icon Track this would minimize the risk of passing out, while not making them immortal (since they can't do anything else during that Combat Turn and only Icon Damage is healed. Call it "Defragmenting". It's basically another version of Medic, though. Just with WIL instead of Computer and it being an Extended Test.

E-Sensing
Allows for TMs to basically matrix assense them
Everyone can do this. Redundant. Next.

Firewall upgrade
increases Firewall by 1
LAME. Next.

Flexible Touch
Allows the TM to change his signature to something else
This seems the equivalent of the masking power. Too bad we don't use signatures. Maybe let it alter the LTG.

Immersion
Gives +1 to all tasks while jumped in.
Meh.

Living ECM.
TM can act as a Jammer (I assume Area Jammer) of Rating equal to her grade. Takes a Complex Action to set up, and a Free Action each Combat Turn to keep it up.
Seems ok. Maybe add that the Jamming field doesn't affect the TM. Name it "Suppressing"

Macro
Each IP it allows you to do an additional Matrix task at a -2 penalty.
This seems very OP. It basically doubles your IPs for matrix tests.

Neurofilter
Increases Biofeedback by 1
LAME

Sift
Data Search tests have their thresholds reduced by the Submersion Grade
OP. Three submersions and you can already consistently find information about the horror cycle with just 10 dice. If available it needs to be nerfed HARD. Maybe just -1 to Threshold (obvious stuff doesn't take a roll, but hard stuff is still pretty hard). Call it "Retrieving"

Skinlink
Gives you the biological version of a Implanted skinlink
Jammers reduce the Resonance, not Signal of TMs, so this is pretty useless.

System upgrade
Guess what?
LAME

Swap
Reduces program sustaining penalty by how often you took this echo (up to two times)
Change it to allowing n additional programs after SYS programs to be sustained without penalty (So if you took it one time and your system was 2 then you can sustain three programs without penalty, but the fourth would have a penalty again). Maybe also make it that you only crash if you have LOG penalizing programs (in that example you could have 5 programs sustained, but any more and you crash). Maybe call it "Supercooling"

Acceleration
Requires Biowire. Gives +1 REA and +1IP in the real world
Seems okay. Having +1REA and +1IP while in AR seems a nice counterpoint to Overclocking. Maybe remove the need for having Biowire?

Mind Over Machine
Allows you to jump into devices without rigger adaptation.
Can't every TM do this?

So from what I see there are a few okay Echos (After modification): Biowire, Defragmentation, Living ECM, Sift, Swap, Acceleration
Or with some new names: Emulating, Defragmenting, Suppressing, Retrieving, Supercooling and maybe Reengineering? Optimizing? Virtualizing? EDIT: Or of course: Accelerating


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Stahlseele
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Living ECM is basically the Mana Static Spell but for Matrix-Stuff.
Making it so that it does not affect the casting TM would be the equivalent of allowing the aspected Mana Static Spell back in. Seems a bit OP to me.
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Trill
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Makes sense
What about limiting it? Instead of being affected with the full rating the TM is only affected by Rating/2?
Because if he is affected as normal then this Echo sucks A LOT.
You could spend karma for the submersions and get this Jammer
Or you could just pay 500 nY/Rating for a normal Area Jammer
I want to know if there is a state between "Absolutely OP" and "Absolutely worthless"
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Stahlseele
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Sort off.
Make it work like the ACTUAL Mana Static Spell by having it not neccessarely be centered on the casting TM but allowing him to pick and chose the center point of the distortion effect.
Other than that? SOL as far as i can think right now.
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Trill
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

Okay, so Living ECM is out
leaves us with Emulating, Defragmenting, Retrieving, Supercooling and Accelerating. Still, better than nothing

Also, I totally forgot to ask this.
Are technocritters "connected" to every device in their Signal Range?
Because it makes a HUGE difference whether they need to use Backdoor to get into a system or if they can just affect it. It also affects the viability of some Powers.
If they go into VR, is it Normal VR or TM VR?
What should their Device Attributes be? Just like with a TM? Flat RES? Something else?
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koz
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote Add User to Ignore List

It looks like high-density signal might be upon us...
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